MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #17

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"Some of these were taken from a group of boys. That is really rare," Patty Wetterling said. "The threat of a gun, the age of the victms, they were close to Jacob's age. I do think there is a strong possibility they are connected to Jacob's case".

This exact quote from Patty leans very hard to the fact that she believes ALL assaults and abductions in Paynesville and Jared's case are related to Jacob's abduction. If you are of the belief that DR abducted or had something to do with Jacob's abduction than you are categorically against Patty's beliefs. Why? Because DR was Jared's band teacher (and mine) and he is unequivocally cleared in that case. Hence, Patty thinks they're all connected and if that's the case than DR is completely innocent from having something to do with all the cases.

You are using some good reasoning here; I value that. Let me just add that if one's point of view is that Jacob is part of a larger conspiracy and ongoing crime wave then to me that says the abductor is not going to be so rash as to call attention to his own home.

In fact, leaving two witnesses who will within minutes call the police implies to me the abductor and Jacob are out of the scene asap.

Stinker brought up a good point earlier about the proximity to 94.

Based on the facts, did the crime HAVE to be committed by a local?

Working back from only the crime scene evidence strongly implies local.

If someone is out trolling for boys or even if someone is looking to snatch only Jacob this place and time does not make sense. There are far easier ways to go about these types of goals, sick as that sounds.


No. I think the differing opinions regarding the abductor being local or not are partly due to the discrepancy of whether or not a vehicle was involved.

Partly it's the vehicle issue. The other part is that there are few reasonable reasons to be on this lonely dark street on a Sunday night unless you live there or are visiting someone you know there. Even being in the mood to snatch a boy or snatch Jacob is not a reasonable reason to be on this street that night as it's just not a fertile place to look for either.



777
 
In defense of those with agendas, maybe they're right. If I had to give odds, I wouldn't, but the POI and the half dozen or so frequently mentioned known criminals have to be kept in consideration. It is hard to strike a balance between the passion for getting justice for Jacob on the one hand and the courtesy and tolerance required if a web forum is going to be productive on the other.

From my perspective, repeating the same conclusion over and over again risks making progress by ignoring viable alternatives. At some point, well-intentioned dedication to helping Jacob devolves into an emotionally-fueled marriage to a single solution. It becomes more about discouraging challenges to one's carefully considered conclusions than about seeking the truth. In my view.

"I've already thought about that so you shut up" is the message in a lot of of the posts in these Jacob threads.
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Now, getting back to the clues....

Of course I agree with you Kevin and DR could both by lying, telling the truth, or some mix of the two. I will say that there is nothing in DR's story which seems unlikely to me, but a dozen things in Kevin's story that seem far-fetched to me. What in DR's narrative of the evening seems unlikely?

Having a child abduction on one's property automatically should make you a suspect in the absence of a good alibi. So by all means I want to keep DR in the picture. For me, DR works because he is in the right time and place. This is important, but Kevin is also in the right time and place. There may be a couple others in the right time and place, like what about that house across the street from DR's (I forgot their name at the moment), or what about the guy who was dropping off someone in the neighborhood?

---As for factors weighing in favor of Kevin's innocence, obviously the police vouching for him is a big one. But I don't like this approach that relies on outsourcing your thinking to others, I prefer to look at the evidence without a middleman. So that basically means the main thing saving Kevin is the presumed testimony of his family and gf that he is nothing more than a bored cop-chaser.

---As for factors weighing in defense of DR's innocence, I just saw a 2014 video of Aaron Larson where he reiterates the 'gruff voice, like a heavy smoker' memory that sticks with him. Never requiring a search warrant, not hiring a lawyer, voluntarily doing hypnosis, giving DNA and in general fully cooperating with the investigation says something to me, it may not to you, but in any event it does not establish guilt or innocence.

A lot is made of DR's job and living with his parents. DR's occupation and marital status fit in with Ken Lanning's FBI behavioral analysis of child molesters - but only the PREFERENTIAL type who is well educated, who grooms their victims over the long term for repeated use, and who methodically plans, rehearses and scripts everything and more often targets specific persons. The other type, the SITUATIONAL type, is more of a fit here - they are opportunistic, they rely on force and violence versus grooming, and are focused on general characteristics like age and gender versus a focus on a specific person.

In short, scout masters, priests, coaches and band directors don't do snatch abductions with a gun, they manipulate their victims through trust.

So I keep DR in mind, but since he already is the POI and unconvicted/unarrested, then perhaps looking at other candidates is an under-utilized approach.



777

You already directly addressed the biggest problem I have with DR's story: there's no one to back it up. No alibi

His bedtime is a tad on the early side, but I say that mostly out of envy. He said he had a run that day, I'm assuming had some extra farm work (etc) that weekend because his parents were away...w/winter slowly approaching I'd go to sleep early too

...I'll have a think about the rest...
 
I agree, it's only speculation that DR tried to clean the blood. DR admits blood residue or something to that effect was found on the chest, but thats all we know about it.

Just to note for everyone in the thread, if you think something is out of bounds and beyond the rules, don't just assume the mods are lurking and will eventually enforce things, click on that triangle in the lower left hand corner of each post to report it.
 
Burned animal and burned human bones are not that easy to tell apart

http://www.academia.edu/2402535/Is_...to_distinguish_between_animal_and_human_bones

What a marvelous find. Something has to explain the time that has been given and currently given to come to a conclusion on the final items going through testing. Why did they dig there? what provoked that?

"This is also true of burned skeletalmaterial, but this work is greatly complicated by the range of heat-induced changes that bone undergoes when burned (Thompson,2005). "
 
What a marvelous find. Something has to explain the time that has been given and currently given to come to a conclusion on the final items going through testing. Why did they dig there? what provoked that?

"This is also true of burned skeletalmaterial, but this work is greatly complicated by the range of heat-induced changes that bone undergoes when burned (Thompson,2005). "

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dTAAsCNK7RA

Look into whether the evidence from the dig of 2010 would hold in a court of law (hint: it wouldn't)
 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dTAAsCNK7RA

Look into whether the evidence from the dig of 2010 would hold in a court of law (hint: it wouldn't)

I get a music video about treadmills in this youtube link. ????
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Any thoughts on this quote from Patty? As in whose family she is complaining about?
“We’ve been begging since the beginning to come forward, and so many people have,” she said. “But this past year has been troubling because we know of people who are really more mindful of protecting their family. I don’t understand that. I remember telling the FBI at the beginning that I would turn in my mother if I thought she had information.”
....The Marshall Independent, October 23, 2014. By Jenny Kirk.


777
 
Seems like she has info on something. But what and why?
 
I get a music video about treadmills in this youtube link. ????
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Any thoughts on this quote from Patty? As in whose family she is complaining about?

....The Marshall Independent, October 23, 2014. By Jenny Kirk.


777

It's the Rassiers and Dan talking to the media made that clear. DR says he will be in "trouble" for talking too much! "you're telling them too much" DR's Father. A mother that couldn't bear to believe it. A family of brothers and sisters who are full of success and not willing to go there even if it is true. Thanks for talking DR.
 
@ 777

100% that was my intention. "Here we go again" --- look into the mechanics of a treadmill - I am now going to stay up past my bedtime and go into "how to read a scientific experiment"
 
I don't care about the conviction. Lose to win. Jacob did.

You do NOT have the right to parse and clip portions of an academic writing/scientific experiment to fit your argument without posting the CONCLUSION for such a publication. People worked VERY hard on this and parsing and clipping bits without context is analogous to plagiarism.

Without challenging the merits of this "publication" I will only address the conclusion, RBBM
http://www.academia.edu/2402535/Is_...o_distinguish_between_animal_and_human_bones/

4. Conclusions
The large availability of burned human bones from some ancient Spanish and Italian necropolises has been exploited in order to assess whether the lattice parameters of bioapatite obtained by XRD are helpful when trying to distinguish human bones from those of animals.The lattice parameters of bioapatite were measured using the Rietveld method with a relatively high degree of precision on bones subjected to a high-temperature treatment. The bones we reheated since this produces a readily observable sharpening of peaks resulting from the growth of the crystallites. While the syntheticapatite was partially transformed to whitlockite after 36 min at1100

C, the human bones were unaffected by this transformation.Moreover,this transformation partially occurred in just three of the animal bones studied. It is also useful to note that the
a
-axis and
c
-axis values of bioapatite are not biased by the use of a P2
1
/b monoclinic rather than P6
3
/m hexagonal unit cell. The differentdiet of the human species does not appear to affect the chemicalcomposition of bones to the point of inducing systematic differ-ences in the apatite lattice parameters, because of faults, inclusionof extra atoms and/or solid solution formations. However, theapatite unit cell axis can be affected by ion exchange reactionsoccurring
post-mortem
such
fl
uorination during diagenesis orchlorination during boiling the bones in salted water for cleaning.On the basis of our experiments involving 42 animal and 53human bones it is not possible to discriminate human from non-human origin using lattice parameter values and any such claim sto be able to do so should be treated with caution.Our results are perhaps not so surprising, since the biological reactions that lead to the formation of apatite are conducted in a physiological environment that is chemically the same whetherdealing with animals or humans
 
You do NOT have the right to parse and clip portions of an academic writing/scientific experiment to fit your argument without posting the CONCLUSION for such a publication. People worked VERY hard on this and parsing and clipping bits without context is analogous to plagiarism.

Without challenging the merits of this "publication" I will only address the conclusion, RBBM
http://www.academia.edu/2402535/Is_...o_distinguish_between_animal_and_human_bones/

4. Conclusions
The large availability of burned human bones from some ancient Spanish and Italian necropolises has been exploited in order to assess whether the lattice parameters of bioapatite obtained by XRD are helpful when trying to distinguish human bones from those of animals.The lattice parameters of bioapatite were measured using the Rietveld method with a relatively high degree of precision on bones subjected to a high-temperature treatment. The bones we reheated since this produces a readily observable sharpening of peaks resulting from the growth of the crystallites. While the syntheticapatite was partially transformed to whitlockite after 36 min at1100

C, the human bones were unaffected by this transformation.Moreover,this transformation partially occurred in just three of the animal bones studied. It is also useful to note that the
a
-axis and
c
-axis values of bioapatite are not biased by the use of a P2
1
/b monoclinic rather than P6
3
/m hexagonal unit cell. The differentdiet of the human species does not appear to affect the chemicalcomposition of bones to the point of inducing systematic differ-ences in the apatite lattice parameters, because of faults, inclusionof extra atoms and/or solid solution formations. However, theapatite unit cell axis can be affected by ion exchange reactionsoccurring
post-mortem
such
fl
uorination during diagenesis orchlorination during boiling the bones in salted water for cleaning.On the basis of our experiments involving 42 animal and 53human bones it is not possible to discriminate human from non-human origin using lattice parameter values and any such claim sto be able to do so should be treated with caution.Our results are perhaps not so surprising, since the biological reactions that lead to the formation of apatite are conducted in a physiological environment that is chemically the same whetherdealing with animals or humans

That is why I posted the study. Advances in technology are needed. We are looking for the best fit
 
That is why I posted the study. Advances in technology are needed. We are looking for the best fit

That is why I posted the rebuttal. It doesn't fit.

Further, kindly look into chain-of-custody and new forensics, if you so desire to post such advances. I trust you'll quickly see the issues
 
That is why I posted the rebuttal. It doesn't fit.

Further, kindly look into chain-of-custody and new forensics, if you so desire to post such advances. I trust you'll quickly see the issues

Of course it fits. They could not determine animal from human. That is the point.

And who cares about chain of custody? They were looking for Jacob. If they found him would they say, " ooh. We don't know how he got there? So pretend he is not there because we cannot prove how he got there?"

Remember, this is about Jacob.
 
I get a music video about treadmills in this youtube link. ????
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Any thoughts on this quote from Patty? As in whose family she is complaining about?

....The Marshall Independent, October 23, 2014. By Jenny Kirk.


777

A guess - given the timing of Patty's quote - is that she was talking about the Huber clan (who, btw remains one of my top suspects)

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/23/neighbors-discuss-father-son-wetterling-abduction/

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/06/12/delbert-huber-found-dead-in-prison/
 
A guess - given the timing of Patty's quote - is that she was talking about the Huber clan (who, btw remains one of my top suspects)

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/23/neighbors-discuss-father-son-wetterling-abduction/



http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/06/12/delbert-huber-found-dead-in-prison/

You can't go there imo. Del Huber talked to the media with complete honesty. Aaron wrote him off. Father Rassier and Mother Rassier, the entire family of brothers and sisters have never been heard from. The wetterlings lived .5 miles away and had no contact with the rassiers in 21 years. Talk about speaking volumes. Then you have patty writing to dan and meeting him in person asking him to just confess.
 
You can't go there imo. Del Huber talked to the media with complete honesty. Aaron wrote him off. Father Rassier and Mother Rassier, the entire family of brothers and sisters have never been heard from. The wetterlings lived .5 miles away and had no contact with the rassiers in 21 years. Talk about speaking volumes. Then you have patty writing to dan and meeting him in person asking him to just confess.

What would the Hubers have to hide? One is dead. He was in prison on a murder charge. The son? Why would he hide anything ? He is in prison as well.
 
I think Patti was talking about Hollinger. I assume he still has family in the area
 
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