MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #17

[Sasquatch321]

I think Patti was talking about Hollinger. I assume he still has family in the area

I'm pretty sure I can dismiss Hollinger. He is so old in the investigation and Aaron most likely vetted and dismissed him. Maybe not. But alot has happened since they knew about him. Why publicly name Dan and ruin his public image 20 years after knowing about hollinger?

 

[chaplain1]

I'm pretty sure I can dismiss Hollinger. He is so old in the investigation and Aaron most likely vetted and dismissed him. Maybe not. But alot has happened since they knew about him. Why publicly name Dan and ruin his public image 20 years after knowing about hollinger?

You're over thinking this in a lot of ways. They wanted to search his farm in 2010, he needed to be named as a POI to get that kind of search.

Dan has been one of a handful of suspects since day 1

 

[Caoutchouc]

I think Patti was talking about Hollinger. I assume he still has family in the area

Hollinger. Almost forgot about him. Or the B bros... lord, there isn't a shortage of people she might be talking about!

...but due to the timing of the quote, I still am inclined to believe it was about the Hubers

 

[777]

I'd like to re-examine the crime scene evidence we have.

Jacob's shoe prints seem indisputable. His weight is said to be 75 pounds.

1. What is known about the other shoe prints? Specifically, where are the shoe prints for the masked man who presumably weighs at least twice as much as Jacob?

2. Is it known if shoe prints or tire tracks were captured from other places beyond the lower driveway? Perhaps in the ditch, in the grass around the driveway or up by DR's house?

3. Obviously the last of Jacob's footprints in DR's driveway imply he was lifted off the ground at that point. Putting him in/on a vehicle or physically carrying him is what I think of; does anyone have another interpretation?



777

 

[Caoutchouc]

User Trackergd has written a ton about the prints - this is only a very small example
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Wetterling-11-St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-8/page45

I love this photo best http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Wetterling-11-St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-8/page46

 

[human]

Tinner identifed the adult print in the photo of that as the detective.

There is no other information re adult prints.

 

[human]

You're over thinking this in a lot of ways. They wanted to search his farm in 2010, he needed to be named as a POI to get that kind of search.

Dan has been one of a handful of suspects since day 1

If he was a suspect day 1, why did it take them so long to search the house? Did they get a search warrant? Were the parents back home?

I think an alternative thought to LE searching his car at the school was to see if the perp had put Jacob in the trunk. Not necessarily that he was the perp.

I always go back to the idea that Sher's friends gave LE the key because they searched their property often. They never felt themselves to be suspects or were concerned at all.

 

[Marzipan]

Could be, but I don't think that's more likely than that she was talking about Rassiers or others. I wonder what she thinks or knows about him, however. He has not been the subject of public discussion.

Editing to add: This was in response to post that Patty W. was expressing frustration with families not disclosing info-- thought that she meant Hollinger family. Forgot to quote post.

 

[human]

Hollinger has a daughter. Is divorced. So who would care about him?

 

[777]

The man falsely accused of murder in Stearns County -I'm not sure it it's ok to post his real name here but I believe his screen name is Tinner- says that he and all the kids in the neighborhood would easily recognize DR's voice. Does anyone have a reason to dispute this or have further points to make about the voice the boys describe?

User Trackergd has written a ton about the prints - this is only a very small example
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Wetterling-11-St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-8/page45

I love this photo best http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Wetterling-11-St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-8/page46

I read the entire library of Jacob threads before I posted anything, not that I memorized everything, but I don't recall any pictures authoritatively attributed as the abductor's shoe print. Do you? I don't recall ELOC's book mentioning shoe prints except Jacob. It seems to me the cops promptly walked all over the place on DR's property and driveway that night so discerning an unknown adult shoe print may have been nearly impossible. When they finally woke up to the fact that maybe they need to be protecting and looking at shoe prints my understanding of the night's timeline indicates they'd already been searching around the property to some extent. Jacob's shoe print would stand out though, because of its size and that fairly unique Nike tread. If anyone remembers some shoe print evidence made public besides Jacob's please let me know.

If he was a suspect day 1, why did it take them so long to search the house? Did they get a search warrant? ....

As far as I can tell DR's family didn't demand a search warrant on that first search the week of the abduction and has never required a search warrant or court order for DNA, hypnosis, the search of his car, the lie detector, etc. Do you have other information?

It's clear a monumental disservice to Jacob was done by NOT searching DR's house the night of the abduction. It's also probably a disservice to DR. My understanding is that they may have had probable cause to do so on the night of the abduction and wouldn't have needed a warrant, but anyway is there any reason to think DR would have objected to a search anyway, warrant or no warrant? Also, I've heard that several other houses in the neighborhood were at least given a walk through by the cops that night - but they didn't at least take a look at DR's???? Given that DR did not tell the cops of the car activity in the driveway until the next day, it seems to me the cops would have no reason to lean towards either an on-foot or vehicle abduction that night, right?



777

 

[Sasquatch321]

I'd like to re-examine the crime scene evidence we have.

Jacob's shoe prints seem indisputable. His weight is said to be 75 pounds.

1. What is known about the other shoe prints? Specifically, where are the shoe prints for the masked man who presumably weighs at least twice as much as Jacob?

2. Is it known if shoe prints or tire tracks were captured from other places beyond the lower driveway? Perhaps in the ditch, in the grass around the driveway or up by DR's house?

3. Obviously the last of Jacob's footprints in DR's driveway imply he was lifted off the ground at that point. Putting him in/on a vehicle or physically carrying him is what I think of; does anyone have another interpretation?



777

TrackerGD, an actual tracker, agreed that with the current photos and all information known publicly, that the single footprint "may" be a planting. A way for DR to throw them off the trail. With this possibility available, it also just says we aren't getting anywhere with the print evidence.

 

[human]

J

The man falsely accused of murder in Stearns County -I'm not sure it it's ok to post his real name here but I believe his screen name is Tinner- says that he and all the kids in the neighborhood would easily recognize DR's voice. Does anyone have a reason to dispute this or have further points to make about the voice the boys describe?



I read the entire library of Jacob threads before I posted anything, not that I memorized everything, but I don't recall any pictures authoritatively attributed as the abductor's shoe print. Do you? I don't recall ELOC's book mentioning shoe prints except Jacob. It seems to me the cops promptly walked all over the place on DR's property and driveway that night so discerning an unknown adult shoe print may have been nearly impossible. When they finally woke up to the fact that maybe they need to be protecting and looking at shoe prints my understanding of the night's timeline indicates they'd already been searching around the property to some extent. Jacob's shoe print would stand out though, because of its size and that fairly unique Nike tread. If anyone remembers some shoe print evidence made public besides Jacob's please let me know.



As far as I can tell DR's family didn't demand a search warrant on that first search the week of the abduction and has never required a search warrant or court order for DNA, hypnosis, the search of his car, the lie detector, etc. Do you have other information?

It's clear a monumental disservice to Jacob was done by NOT searching DR's house the night of the abduction. It's also probably a disservice to DR. My understanding is that they may have had probable cause to do so on the night of the abduction and wouldn't have needed a warrant, but anyway is there any reason to think DR would have objected to a search anyway, warrant or no warrant? Also, I've heard that several other houses in the neighborhood were at least given a walk through by the cops that night - but they didn't at least take a look at DR's???? Given that DR did not tell the cops of the car activity in the driveway until the next day, it seems to me the cops would have no reason to lean towards either an on-foot or vehicle abduction that night, right?"

Re the kids recognizing the voice.

I think it is interesting that Tinner said he did not hang around with Jacob, so I am not sure that he would have a clue if Jacob and his buddies would recognize DR's voice.

Considering the W family lived there for years, they had never met DR.

Why would kids in the neighborhood know DR? Was he hanging around with the kids somehow?

 

[cGorg]

Given that DR did not tell the cops of the car activity in the driveway until the next day, it seems to me the cops would have no reason to lean towards either an on-foot or vehicle abduction that night, right?

777

sorry to have snipped most of your post.....a good post btw but I will try to get to the point....

As for the voice of DR....I had mentioned years ago could he have hidden his distinctive lisp? On the other hand he does sound as if he has a cold...and his voice can be low at times if you listen to the interviews(with headphones).

Shoeprints....I agree with Sasquatch.....very difficult with the available info to judge or decipher.

As to your last sentence....IMO, it would be difficult at the time immediately after the abduction to determine abduction by vehicle or by foot. I presume the idea would be to search the area as quickly as possible for Jacob and so I lean towards the abduction by vehicle intuitively at first, as the farmstead is not visible from the abduction site, and it seems logical a perp would exit the scene by vehicle asap. Having said that, despite the volumes of posts on WS, Joy's blog + comments.....for me it still boils down to the cars. If by vehicle the perp saw the boys somewhere between their house + the TT then he had knowledge of or assumed they would be returning the same way. So if the perp decided to use the Rassier driveway to park his vehicle then he had 3 choices if proceeding south on 91st:

1. Simply back into the driveway far enough out of view, stop the vehicle(vehicle facing west), and wait. Stop the boys, send the 2 boys west into the trees, abduct Jacob, wait, then escape by vehicle.
2. Turn into the driveway, stop the vehicle far enough from 91st so as to conceal the vehicle(vehicle facing east). After the abduction, either make a 'Y' turn in the driveway or proceed east and circle around the actual farmstead and venture back west to 91st to make an exit.
3. Turn into the driveway, proceed east down the hill, circle around the farmstead, then proceed west and park the car on the driveway just far enough off 91st so as to not be seen by the boys. Exit the vehicle, wait for the boys, make the abduction, wait for the other 2 boys to run far enough away, then start the vehicle and escape.

If it's #1 then there's yet another vehicle(the small dark one with headlights close together, which DR said he saw). It can't be Kevin + girlfriend's because they were in a Grand Prix. So if DR's story his true....we've got 3 cars on DR's driveway in a small time frame.
If it's #2 then there is a vehicle other than Kevin + gf's as the vehicle is totally different by DR's description. So if this vehicle witnessed by DR is true....why did he not tell Officer Bechtold about this vehicle that night? And fail to tell officers at the scene in the morning as he was leaving for work? He has stated there was a crazy afternoon driver that Sunday afternoon which was highly unusual and he was worried that the nighttime driver could be the same....yet no mention of such.
If its #3 then the abductor had an accomplice in the car and drove through the farmstead prior to the abduction and DR witnessed this vehicle.....yet no mention of such until the day after when questioned by LE.

 

[cGorg]

I think Kevin's story is Kevin's story.....as it happened.

 

[Trackergd]

TrackerGD, an actual tracker, agreed that with the current photos and all information known publicly, that the single footprint "may" be a planting. A way for DR to throw them off the trail. With this possibility available, it also just says we aren't getting anywhere with the print evidence.

It is "possible" for someone to plant one or more prints. What is lacking in a "planted" print is the many pressure releases that are present in an actual foot print. It is not easy to plant a fake print that passes the test of a tracker or trained forensics investigator familiar with prints. It is not something I can see very well in photographs that are still shots from a video. I would be able to tell from the police photographs and from the plaster casts, however the Sheriff declined to share. If I can only go from what I see in the photographs and video available; The crime scene was not properly secured, was contaminated by one or more individuals, at least two members of LE walked in the print field, not enough plaster casts were taken, possible additional crime scene was not evaluated (surrounding grass etc) for additional prints. I am also not so sure that Sterns County had the knowledge to clearly identify all the tire prints in the field and am 90% sure they did not know anything about "reading" footprints. They also dismissed a car being involved way too quickly. The entire investigation stinks. I am not sure if it is lack of technical knowledge or something else. The telling part for me is that they refuse to allow technical professionals to review the evidence. Sooner or later the truth will leak out. From what I can see in the pictures, a car was involved. I base that on a view that shows an indirect register in one of the tire prints, and it appears to be the same tire prints that are in front of Jacobs last print. I have nothing to prove one way or the other if DR knew or was involved.

 

[bucshunter]

TrackerGD, an actual tracker, agreed that with the current photos and all information known publicly, that the single footprint "may" be a planting. A way for DR to throw them off the trail. With this possibility available, it also just says we aren't getting anywhere with the print evidence.

Sas, See tracker's post below, believes a car was involved and doesn't sound like he is on board with a planted footprint.

 

[Caoutchouc]

It is "possible" for someone to plant one or more prints. What is lacking in a "planted" print is the many pressure releases that are present in an actual foot print. It is not easy to plant a fake print that passes the test of a tracker or trained forensics investigator familiar with prints. It is not something I can see very well in photographs that are still shots from a video. I would be able to tell from the police photographs and from the plaster casts, however the Sheriff declined to share. If I can only go from what I see in the photographs and video available; The crime scene was not properly secured, was contaminated by one or more individuals, at least two members of LE walked in the print field, not enough plaster casts were taken, possible additional crime scene was not evaluated (surrounding grass etc) for additional prints. I am also not so sure that Sterns County had the knowledge to clearly identify all the tire prints in the field and am 90% sure they did not know anything about "reading" footprints. They also dismissed a car being involved way too quickly. The entire investigation stinks. I am not sure if it is lack of technical knowledge or something else. The telling part for me is that they refuse to allow technical professionals to review the evidence. Sooner or later the truth will leak out. From what I can see in the pictures, a car was involved. I base that on a view that shows an indirect register in one of the tire prints, and it appears to be the same tire prints that are in front of Jacobs last print. I have nothing to prove one way or the other if DR knew or was involved.

Thanks for this great analysis. To me, it sums up everything and the problem is crystal clear.

 

[Fukiyama]

sorry to have snipped most of your post.....a good post btw but I will try to get to the point....

The rule of thumb is I believe to only include quotes that you are directly referencing. So no harm done.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Sas, See tracker's post below, believes a car was involved and doesn't sound like he is on board with a planted footprint.

It's not factual until Sanner shares the actual evidence with him. If Jacob was taken by a car, the one in front of his footprint, why did LE 15 years later say he wasn't?

 

[Trackergd]

It's not factual until Sanner shares the actual evidence with him. If Jacob was taken by a car, the one in front of his footprint, why did LE 15 years later say he wasn't?

Why? Because they identified an individual as a POI as a "place holder" so they can sit on their hands forever claiming it's an ongoing investigation and that they are waiting for technology to advance. If they changed gears and pointed in another direction, DR, depending on the laws in that state may be able to file a defamation of character charge since by inactivity, they let the public in general assume that for all these years DR is guilty of "something". Again, depending on the laws of that state, he may be able to file charges against individual members of LE.

An outsider could be excused for assuming that LE is circling the wagons based on what we see, what is not being said, what is not being shared and an apparant general disregard for the welfare of the character of their POI.

I have not seen anything to convince me that the FBI did anything more than consult with LE, provide some resources and communicate with the media. SCSD maintained control of the case and did not turn it over to the FBI. On the two missing person cases I was involved in with the FBI, this was the same scenario. If this is not an active case with the FBI, I wonder if they would share what they have under the freedom of information act? Something for one of you to chase...