bucshunter
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That is too bad I think it would be helpful for another thread to explore other possibilities.
MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #17
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That is too bad I think it would be helpful for another thread to explore other possibilities.
I would be curious to know if Dan's parents ever traveled so far again, leaving him alone. Just one of those night time wonderings. Wish I could know what they know and feel in their hearts, either way, about their boy. His siblings too.
Sasquatch321
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The B's- Ratted each other out. Exactly what you would hope to happen in an ongoing case like this. Nothing more is known.
MF- Child molestor found to be in the immediate area the night of the abduction. MF claims air tight alibi and cleared twice. Child abductor and murderer? Thin information.
Hollinger- Hockey guy, lived near St Joe, worked in St Joe. Leaves the state and now lives in Texas. Arrested and released, records destroyed.
VS- Highly interested in the abduction, in St. Joe, maps of St Joe, items of interest found in home, 45 caliber handgun found, artist.
DR- Named person of interest, items from third search still in testing, Judge issued gag order not to discuss the meaning of POI or items found.
Kevin- On the driveway, doesn't talk for 14 years, nor does his girlfriend and family, Patty and LE publicly clear them.
MF- Child molestor found to be in the immediate area the night of the abduction. MF claims air tight alibi and cleared twice. Child abductor and murderer? Thin information.
Hollinger- Hockey guy, lived near St Joe, worked in St Joe. Leaves the state and now lives in Texas. Arrested and released, records destroyed.
VS- Highly interested in the abduction, in St. Joe, maps of St Joe, items of interest found in home, 45 caliber handgun found, artist.
DR- Named person of interest, items from third search still in testing, Judge issued gag order not to discuss the meaning of POI or items found.
Kevin- On the driveway, doesn't talk for 14 years, nor does his girlfriend and family, Patty and LE publicly clear them.
chaplain1
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DAH left off purposefully?
Sasquatch321
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DAH- 5 ft 7 in, size 9ee shoe, responsible for attacking a single victim some 350 to 700 times, questioned multiple times, helped investigators with Jareds case, child abductor and murderer?
Started drinking at age 6. Specilal needs classes. Used other drugs as well.
How many brain cells would be left?
It sure sounds like Patty knows who is keeping secrets.
She is very strong on it not being a priest.
http://www.marshallindependent.com/page/content.detail/id/560945.html
She is very strong on it not being a priest.
http://www.marshallindependent.com/page/content.detail/id/560945.html
I think that the article I quote was something of an oversight by Patty, she didn't really mean to blurt out that they found tracks and foot prints linked to an early suspect. The early reports of Kevin's story suggest he got out and talked to the cops on the crime scene, which would explain both his car and foot prints on the scene, and this news article.
It wasn't until his story 10+ years later to Joy that the whole cop-at-the-dental-office claim came out - as far as I can tell.
When I look at the press of this era it is clear there was a managed effort by both the police and Kevin to get the story out there that he had driven all the way up to DR's homestead that night.
Assuming Kevin's story is true about meeting a US Marshall at a party who convinced him to finally tell his story to the police, there was no reason for this to appear in the media unless the cops wanted it in the media. I believe there was a new sheriff around this time which probably also has something to do with the decision to go public with Kevin's epic tour through the biggest crime in Minnesota history.
Since previous history is the best predictor of future behavior, Kevin's instinct was almost certainly to keep this story between him and cops only. So ask yourself: Why the cops would deliberately ask him to go public with Kevin's story?
777
chaplain1
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Joy and DR would have jumped on the conspiracy angle. No evidence of one unless you are doing interviews.
Agreed.
The evidence of the crime scene vicinity is so limited every possible physical and logistical detail takes significance. If this was a major thoroughfare or even a normal residential street that DID NOT come to a dead end, many of the details would be far less worthy of serious discussion. A thinly populated semi-rural street with no outlet except backtracking towards the highway provides a lot of presumptions we can be fairly confident about for any traffic or indeed any person seen on the road at any time.
A lack of car traffic on the way back from Tom Thumb strongly suggests the abductor did not first see them while they were there, but on the way there. But it's still just slightly possible to see the boys at the store and then pull of the abduction. It's also possible the boys weren't paying attention to car traffic much and got the details wrong, so a viable scenario that works except for the boys' testimony about car traffic is still worth considering. When I was in drivers ed the instructor at one point reached up and put his hand across the rearview mirror and said, "how many cars just passed by and what was their color." I couldn't answer and no one else could either. There were no cars that had just passed by.
One viable scenario is that the abductor was driving south down 91st Street and saw the boys on their way to the Tom Thumb. There is testimony on Joy's blog about another 12 year old boy in the neighborhood who had a couple incidents of being harassed by a car while he was riding to/from the Tom Thumb. To me the details of these previous incidents suffered by the other boy are something high school kids would do, which might weigh into Jacob's abduction scenario, most specifically a prank-gone-wrong.
So Jacob is not the first 12 y.o. harassed between his house and the Tom Thumb.
http://www.joybaker.com/2014/07/09/tidbits/
777
The ideal situation is to have all discussions shared easily in one thread just in case anyone has a good insight or other information. Unshared information silos are no doubt contributing to the failure in solving this case.
There was a second thread started for Johnny Gosch when the primary thread became dominated by those advancing one explanation and one explanation only - a vast conspiracy of Right Wing Pedophiles who hunted boys in the Midwest. I didn't know we had to ask permission to start a separate thread but I will happily do so if we truly can't talk here without a constant barrage of pleas to look at one explanation and one explanation only. Everyone likely has something to offer.
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Here's a scenario for you:
Kevin is out that night just being a general bored young person in a small town and perhaps visits the party spot(s) he told Joy about around 91st Street. He already is very familiar with DR's driveway and knows it's not a public road - the idea he would go all the way to DR's house and turn around is absurd. So, he's definitely in DR's driveway that night, this is beyond dispute. BUT, perhaps he is in the area for some modestly embarrassing reason: to drink beer in the woods, to smoke pot, have sex with his girlfriend, or whatever. He's been there before for similar reasons he admits.
I assume he at no time spoke to the cops that night since there is no record of it.
BUT, and this is critical...Kevin isn't in the area because of the ridiculous scanner story that doesn't make sense, he's already in the area, probably for some fairly harmless reason noted above. Perhaps he's even one of the cars the boys see on their way to the Tom Thumb. If Kevin is not a part of the crime, he and his girlfriend likely have testimony about the scene of the crime, about the boys, about the Tom Thumb, about what is going on around 91st Street this night, about who else he may have seen that night, about other vehicles seen that night, or about DR.
If Kevin's timing as given 14+ years after the crime is off by even 10-20 minutes, Kevin is an important material witness to much more than bikes strewn on the side of the road and a "medical cop". All of this scenario goes a long way to explaining why it took so long for Kevin's story to be made public (I believe the cops likely already knew Kevin's story starting from very early in the investigation).
777
chaplain1
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Sasquatch321
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DR cleared Kevin and is 100 percent convinced we should be trying to find the afternoon car. The tan monte carlo. Whats funny about that is if that's the abductor, he drives all the way into the building site in the afternoon- reveals himself, his car, and leaves his tire tracks. He then returns during the night and sees the three boys and abducts Jacob. Mask, gun, and all. But this time he doesn't have the tan monte carlo, he is on foot and walks Jacob to his house somewhere in St Joe. More attention should be focused on getting the community to remember who may have owned a tan monte carlo.
Sasquatch321
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DR can challenge the judges gag order and force le to give up its false information about him, he can clear his name. But he must have the help of legal counsel.
What to do if a court issues a gag order
If a court issues a gag order in a case you are covering, the first thing you should do is obtain a copy. If it is a written order, the court clerk should be able to provide a copy. If not, you may have to pay to have the court stenographer transcribe the judge’s oral directive.
Find out who the order gags and what restrictions it places on the gagged individuals. What is the judge’s justification for issuing the gag? Nuances in the language of the order may greatly affect whether it will be upheld on appeal.
If your sources have been gagged, you will need advice on whether you can challenge the order or whether the person directly affected by it must bring the challenge. Here, too, you will need the help of legal counsel.
In some cases, a judge will lift or modify a gag order when told of the constitutional problems it poses. But a formal appeal may be necessary to protect your ability to cover a court case.
https://www.rcfp.org/first-amendment-handbook/introduction-what-do-if-court-issues-gag-order
What to do if a court issues a gag order
If a court issues a gag order in a case you are covering, the first thing you should do is obtain a copy. If it is a written order, the court clerk should be able to provide a copy. If not, you may have to pay to have the court stenographer transcribe the judge’s oral directive.
Find out who the order gags and what restrictions it places on the gagged individuals. What is the judge’s justification for issuing the gag? Nuances in the language of the order may greatly affect whether it will be upheld on appeal.
If your sources have been gagged, you will need advice on whether you can challenge the order or whether the person directly affected by it must bring the challenge. Here, too, you will need the help of legal counsel.
In some cases, a judge will lift or modify a gag order when told of the constitutional problems it poses. But a formal appeal may be necessary to protect your ability to cover a court case.
https://www.rcfp.org/first-amendment-handbook/introduction-what-do-if-court-issues-gag-order
chaplain1
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Which time?
Ha ha. The very first time
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