MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #17

[human]

11-14-2014, 11:29 AM #20 shergal shergal is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by HEY YOU! View Post
So what time makes the most sense for cops to arrive at abduction scene? And is there anything else that looks like it's off? I am so annoyed that I can't find the time the boys called the Wetterlings to ask permission to walk to Tom Thumb. It may be in that movie a Mother's Hope? Or somewhere in an interview when they went through how it happened. That would be super helpful.
Here's some times I found from past threads and notes I had saved - you can incorporate those in your timeline (some already match):

boys left home at 8:30 pm
left store 9:02
9:15 abduction time
9:32 merle's 911 call - lasted 8 minutes
9:37 Kevin family heard report on scanner
cops arrived at wetterlings 9:40
wetterlings home by 10
polka fest at Del-Win went from 1 to 10 pm
Charlie Grafft (sheriff) boarded helicopter at 10:30 to help search
11:23 rassier 911 call

 

[human]

More excellent info

07-25-2014, 04:53 PM #547 shergal shergal is offline
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Here is an interesting article from the Minneapolis Star Tribune archives (from my subscription) on the start of the search, the leads they followed, looking locally, etc. It is shown in two parts here:

Part 1:
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/she...ml?sort=4&o=31

Part 2:
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/she...ml?sort=4&o=32


You can enlarge pages to read by clicking on right bottom of photos. Original article was printed in:
Star Tribune: Newspaper of the Twin Cities (Minneapolis, MN)
February 29, 2004, Edition: METRO, Section: NEWS, Page: 1B
Paid subscriptions to archives of this and other MN newspapers are available at:
http://nl.newsbank.com/

 

[human]

01-04-2014, 12:32 AM #831 ELOCsoul ELOCsoul is offline
Verified Author - "It Can't Happen Here: the Search for Jacob Wetterling"
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'Monster' Haunts Retiring Sheriff
"Nothing in 38 years in law enforcement has hit me like this case has." Said retiring sheriff Charlie Grafft.

For Charlie, it began at home on Oct. 22. He was settling in to watch the news. A department squad car whizzed west on Stearns County Road 75 with its sirens blaring and lights flashing.

He waited to be paged. He wasn't. After a few minutes he called the office and was told that an 11-year-old boy had been snatched at 9:15 by a masked gunman near his home in St. Joseph. The boy's brother and a friend had seen it happen.

He drove his squad car the three miles or so to the crime scene. After a short time he went to visit Patty and Jerry Wetterling. He arrived about 9:45pm. "You hate to say this, but you wanted to get out of the house," Charlie said recently. "Patty, you know, she just really lost it."

Charlie was uncomfortable. He wasn't sure what to say. He wasn't sure what had happened. He could see the shock, the fear, the reality. He could see Aaron Larson and Trevor Wetterling. Their faces told him it was not a joke.

Still, no time for emotion, not yet. The sheriff had to get things rolling. By 10:30 - just an hour after he was sitting comfortably at home - Charlie was in the State Patrol helicopter beginning an air search. At one point they hovered so low they almost hit a power line.

Source: October 16, 1990 St. Cloud Times
Last edited by ELOCsoul; 01-04-2014 at 01:15 AM. Reason: corrected spelling

 

[human]

01-04-2014, 10:46 AM #834 shergal shergal is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by ELOCsoul View Post
"Nothing in 38 years in law enforcement has hit me like this case has." Said retiring sheriff Charlie Grafft.

For Charlie, it began at home on Oct. 22. He was settling in to watch the news. A department squad car whizzed west on Stearns County Road 75 with its sirens blaring and lights flashing.

He waited to be paged. He wasn't. After a few minutes he called the office and was told that an 11-year-old boy had been snatched at 9:15 by a masked gunman near his home in St. Joseph. The boy's brother and a friend had seen it happen.

He drove his squad car the three miles or so to the crime scene. After a short time he went to visit Patty and Jerry Wetterling. He arrived about 9:45pm. "You hate to say this, but you wanted to get out of the house," Charlie said recently. "Patty, you know, she just really lost it."

Charlie was uncomfortable. He wasn't sure what to say. He wasn't sure what had happened. He could see the shock, the fear, the reality. He could see Aaron Larson and Trevor Wetterling. Their faces told him it was not a joke.

Still, no time for emotion, not yet. The sheriff had to get things rolling. By 10:30 - just an hour after he was sitting comfortably at home - Charlie was in the State Patrol helicopter beginning an air search. At one point they hovered so low they almost hit a power line.

Source: October 16, 1990 St. Cloud Times
(BBM)
So there WERE sirens! And if Charlie heard them inside his home 3 miles away, they had to have been pretty loud in front of DR's house. Was this around the time he said he was sleeping? Or was that later when "the helicopter was hovering so low they almost hit a power line"?? Hmmm. Yet a car in his driveway and his dog barking startled him. Seems to be some inconsistencies here.

 

[shergal]

More excellent info

07-25-2014, 04:53 PM #547 shergal shergal is offline
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Here is an interesting article from the Minneapolis Star Tribune archives (from my subscription) on the start of the search, the leads they followed, looking locally, etc. It is shown in two parts here:

Part 1:
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/she...ml?sort=4&o=31

Part 2:
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/she...ml?sort=4&o=32


You can enlarge pages to read by clicking on right bottom of photos. Original article was printed in:
Star Tribune: Newspaper of the Twin Cities (Minneapolis, MN)
February 29, 2004, Edition: METRO, Section: NEWS, Page: 1B
Paid subscriptions to archives of this and other MN newspapers are available at:
http://nl.newsbank.com/

I’m not sure which 2 articles you were referencing here, but the links are broken.

Here is one article about the search changing in 2004:
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/shergal1/media/start1.jpg.html

The link to my main photobucket is
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/shergal1/library/?sort=4&page=2
if you want to link articles directly from there. (When picked up from old threads they are incomplete.)

 

[StinkSprings]

Do you have proof the helicopter was there while he was sleeping?

Speaking of the helicopter once again, how did DR not hear it?

I would think a musician has highly evolved hearing

 

[777]

Don't get too hung up on the helicopter blowing off the scent. To be able to view the area, the helicopter needs a bit of altitude and the rotor wash would not travel down to the ground other than when the helicopter landed. I don't see this as a major cause of the scent trail stopping. Even if Jacob were picked up and carried, the scent trail would have continued as the scent trail is comprised of dead skin cells. Walking or being carried would not make much of a difference unless Jacob were wrapped in a tarp or blanket.

Thanks for your input. Dog scenting is valuable and the best explanation for the dogs losing Jacob's scent is he was put in or on a vehicle.

Well exactly it was his social intelligence and education that prevented LE from searching his house or multiple buildings that night. This is why he searched them himself, because he became aware they might want to, what which lead to the house. Where he was possibly holding Jacob.

This is a stretch. If you want a kid and you are clever, you pull a Jared or Paynesville type abduction.

I agree with all this, except the part about him possibly holding Jacob in his house. IMO, Jacob was taken right away off DR's land.

The lost dog scent supports your point that Jacob was immediately taken off DR's property.

Just in case people want to read about Somer and see that dogs were not involved whatsoever in revealing where her killer lived.

Since we already have proof from Law Enforcement that the dogs found the scent leading to where Somer was being held, this to me means some of us accept or reject evidence based only on whether it leads in the direction of DR or not.

Saying that 'dogs were not involved' in the face of a mainstream media report from a Law Enforcement dog handler in 2015 that dogs were involved is....imaginative.



I ask that we accept where the clues lead us. Dog scents are a valuable clue in all investigations. Perhaps the cops in Somer's case did not reveal this earlier on because it makes them look stupid.

<modsnip>


777

 

[human]

I&#8217;m not sure which 2 articles you were referencing here, but the links are broken.

Here is one article about the search changing in 2004:
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/shergal1/media/start1.jpg.html

The link to my main photobucket is
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/shergal1/library/?sort=4&page=2
if you want to link articles directly from there. (When picked up from old threads they are incomplete.)

Thanks. I found them by pressing on links from WS.

They worked.

Now they do not. Strange

 

[Sasquatch321]

I&#8217;m not sure which 2 articles you were referencing here, but the links are broken.

Here is one article about the search changing in 2004:
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/shergal1/media/start1.jpg.html

The link to my main photobucket is
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/shergal1/library/?sort=4&page=2
if you want to link articles directly from there. (When picked up from old threads they are incomplete.)

LE has sufficient evidence ruling out tbe use of a vehicle. And since 2004, this new theory hasn't changed. Since 2004, LE hasn't said much at all.

 

[777]

LE has sufficient evidence ruling out tbe use of a vehicle.

Assumptions on your part. Naming DR as a POI in no way rules out the use of a vehicle.

777

 

[bucshunter]

Thank you for this thread. I do believe that the mo of the perpetrator points to an experienced abductor. I also would not be surprised if the driver of the vehicle (K) saw or knows something as well and kept it quiet for many years.

 

[777]

Here is a nice timeline done by cGorg. Does anyone have anything to add? Or does anyone have anything to dispute?

9:00-9:15- Smokey barks, DR sees a dark blue(or black) car drive thru the farmstead
9:15- Abduction occurs
9:32- Merle's 911 call to police
9:40- Police arrive at Wetterling house. I'm thinking here that it does take some time for LE to download the information from the boys before proceeding to abduction site)
9:45-10-Kevin + girlfriend(and friends hear scanner + see police cars go by). Since they live relatively close(not verified yet) they make it to the abduction site prior to LE, drive ALL the way through DR's farmstead driveway. Smokey does not bark(explanation anywhere for this?) Kevin drives to Tom Thumb, sees 'medical cop', then notices LE squad car at Cotton Dentist office, talks to him, cop says 'we know about the bikes'
10:00- DR goes to bed
10:05-10:20(I don't have any info on this) Since Merle's 911 call was at 9:32 and lasted several minutes, he then called Jerry + Patty in Clearwater. So I would assume the earliest they could be getting into their car would be 9:40. 25-30 minute drive puts arrival at 10:10. However, according to the Saint Autumn blog quoting Patty as saying they met a squad car on their road and the police escorted them to their house. I am wondering if LE waited at the Wetterling house before proceeding to the abduction site.
10:20-11:23- no info on what's happening in this time frame
11:23- Smokey barks, DR places 911 call regarding people searching the woodpile



​

&#8203;http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-5&p=9781581#post9781581

 

[777]

Thank you for this thread. I do believe that the mo of the perpetrator points to an experienced abductor. I also would not be surprised if the driver of the vehicle (K) saw or knows something as well and kept it quiet for many years.

I myself have not really reached an assumption about whether the abductor is experienced or an amateur. What clues lead you in this direction?



777

 

[Fukiyama]

I don't contribute much to the JW discussion, but I look forward to following this thread.

 

[777]

Is it possible Kevin has been known by the police since the early days of the investigation? ...is it possible that in 2003/2004 his story was deliberately made public even though it had been known for years? Whose tire tracks were found but eliminated?






From the Grand Forks Herald, October 22, 1999
by Kris Jensen

He ordered them to lie face-down in the ditch. One by one, he had each child turn over. He asked their ages. He sent Trevor and their friend running across the field to the woods, threatening to shoot them if they looked back.When they reached the trees, they did look back.Jacob and the man were gone.Within minutes, law enforcement was on the scene. They found a shoeprint and tire tracks and later matched them to a suspect, who was later eliminated. No arrests have been made. In 10 years, the Stearns County Sheriff's Department has had more than 28,000 tips and leads, and they haven't stopped looking....
..."

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...ountid=AC0115081420424218228&s_upgradeable=no



777

 

[Fukiyama]

Is it possible Kevin has been known by the police since the early days of the investigation? ...is it possible that in 2003/2004 his story was deliberately made public even though it had been known for years? Whose tire tracks were found but eliminated?

I really think anything is possible as far as LE sharing or not sharing info. What do you think they gain by having Kevin go public if he was already known to the public as "a suspect" through the article you quote? I said it's possible, but I don't think it's probable in this case. Kevin's story is just too weird. If I were the cops, I'd let him remain "a suspect" and let it be.

I don't remember the exact details around Kevin's coming out in 2003. He went to the cops to tell them, but did he go to the press alone or was that through LE?

 

[StinkSprings]

I look forward to seeing where this thread goes.

One of the more interesting aspects is that multiple cars passed the boys on the way to Tom Thumb. Whether or not they were traveling towards them or were coming from behind them remains unknown. Either way, there were very few houses back in that area meaning ANY traffic would be significant to the case.

 

[bessie]

Sorry, guys. The forum is set up for one discussion thread for missing person.

Currently, we do not have a sub-forum for Jacob. If anyone feels a dedicated sub-forum is necessary, please follow the usual procedure, and send a request to me in a private message.

Thanks.

Bessie
WS Administrator

 

[human]

Will the abductor ever break? It seems like the priests were able to live just fine . Sandusky seemed to be doing fine.

I am not sure he will ever decompose. I do believe someone else knows. That person make break down.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/justice/patty-wetterling-5-questions/

 

[human]

A lot of information in here. So touching. Finding Jacob's name written in a closet. Packing up his things.

The lengths they went to with resources. A Vietnam Vet who could read the earth. Psychics.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_13613535