MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #2

[MichelleClay]

snipped...

I'm still thinking it was the guy lurking at Tom's Thumb. Could he have not left prior to the boys? Did he? do we know what became of that man? So many questions....

I believe the man at Tom Thumb that gave the off the creepy vibe to everyone was the man in all the sketches attached to this case. They never found him or talked to him.

 

[Dejasade]

snipped...



I believe the man at Tom Thumb that gave the off the creepy vibe to everyone was the man in all the sketches attached to this case. They never found him or talked to him.

I agree...

 

[nicknjessesmom]

I don't really want to throw the thread off track, but I ran across this man, John Charles Wrenshall, who recently plead guilty in Newark NJ to pimping out little boys in Thailand after he was extradited to the U.S. He apparently had some U.S. "clients" who went to Thailand to partake of his "services". One of them got caught and files on his computer led to Wrenshall. However, he is a Canadian citizen with a thirty plus year track record of molesting boys. Two convictions in Canada that I can find. The last one in 1997 netted him a year in jail for the sexual assault of several boys in the Calgary Boys Choir. Shortly after his release he moved to Thailand, but when I pulled up his photo I thought I'd seen him before. After some looking around I realized this is why he looks so familiar to me:



Apparently they must have something on Rassier's farm to be doing all that digging, so I'm probably way off base, but wanted to put it out there. He did reside in Canada in 89 when Jacob was abducted and had launched a software company in Canada in 1983 called Rinax Systems so I'm guessing the guy could have traveled extensively in the late eighties and never raised an eyebrow.

 

[human]

1. Re: Jerry Wetterling. They have an older daughter that is older than Jacob.

2. I had heard the rumors back then that Jerry was not Jacob's father. But since they have an older child, I doubt it.

3. I , too, helped in the search and maybe the National Guard person had better info, but all I remember is that the guy asked the children's ages.

4. Please look at the maps and see if you can possibly see how a guy could get ahead of them.

5. The Wetterlings were at a PTA party. This was before cell phones. How would Jerry contact anyone as this was a spur of the moment idea that the kids had.

6. Yes, Jerry was very stoic. Men especially in Minnesota are very stoic. Especially at that in history. Men don't cry.

 

[believe09]

What is the latest on the searching and how viable is the suspect? I am energized to think that there is a chance at closing a case I have thought about for years and years....

 

[human]

What is the latest on the searching and how viable is the suspect? I am energized to think that there is a chance at closing a case I have thought about for years and years....

It's so unknown.

But DR to me is viable in terms of location and unusual personality. There is a vid of him on here somewhere -2004.

He's a teacher, but couldn't be bothered about people searching for an abducted child on his property. Strange to me.

As a teacher myself, I find that attitude very disgusting. I can't imagine a teacher saying that.

 

[Varye]

bump

This is very interesting!

 

[Lotus]

Many things to consider, I'm going off the theory that DR did it although it's purely based on circumstance at this time. I wont rewrite everything I've posted, it would take too long lol.

*Age of the abductor: "The (FBI) psychological profile of the abductor describes him as a Caucasian man, 25 to 35 years old in 1989".
DR would have been about 35 at the time.

*DR is an avid runner so he could have covered plenty of ground when he first saw the kids leave (I think it's possible he was hanging around the Wetterling home as they were ready to leave on their bikes and cut across the field as they rode off, Aaron remembered hearing the noise to the left of him, a little further down the road opposite the driveway, but it's possible he saw them from his farm going by).

*The Tom Thumb stranger who "said nothing and glared at costumers".
It's no surprise that there would have been a weirdo in a gas station located off a busy highway.
I just don't see how someone hanging around the Tom Thumb could have known which way they were going.

* DR taught at the middle school in Cold Spring where Jared was walking nearby when he was abducted, and the abductor kept asking Jared if he "recognized him" (perhaps from school?)

*Aaron saw the man yank Jacob up off the ground by the elbow just as Aaron got up to run away, I don't think he was leading Jacob away by the elbow.

*Why on earth would a stranger take Jacob down someone else's driveway especially if there was no car parked down it?
Personally I think the abductor (DR) was forcibly walking Jacob down the driveway and when Jacob started to struggle he picked him up and walked through the grass and into his home, which makes more sense because walking the whole length of the driveway would have taken far too long.
Also the way DR reacted to the abduction, how he didn't want to "waste time" and how he claimed to have seen a car turn around and speed off when Jacob was taken, although DR said he was "sleeping" at the time.
And as far as the motorist who left the tire tracks, if he was involved in some way why would he ever say anything?

*Here's a map I spliced together of the Abduction spot & Rassier farm, Jacob's footprints disappeared near the second telephone pole, it's easy to see why taking a shortcut to the house would have made more sense than walking the whole length of the driveway, also it gives an idea of how isolated the area is.

<modsnip>

*This is all just my opinion at this point, the current investigation could come up with nothing and DR could just remain a circumstantial suspect until something else points toward another POI.

 

[MichelleClay]

It's so unknown.

But DR to me is viable in terms of location and unusual personality. There is a vid of him on here somewhere -2004.

He's a teacher, but couldn't be bothered about people searching for an abducted child on his property. Strange to me.

As a teacher myself, I find that attitude very disgusting. I can't imagine a teacher saying that.

I'm a teacher too and you are always looking out for kids, even when you aren't in the classroom! DR rubs me the wrong way, but I am still unsure if I believe he is the suspect.

 

[celticthyme]

Many things to consider, I'm going off the theory that DR did it although it's purely based on circumstance at this time. I wont rewrite everything I've posted, it would take too long lol.

*Age of the abductor: "The (FBI) psychological profile of the abductor describes him as a Caucasian man, 25 to 35 years old in 1989".
DR would have been about 35 at the time.

*DR is an avid runner so he could have covered plenty of ground when he first saw the kids leave (I think it's possible he was hanging around the Wetterling home as they were ready to leave on their bikes and cut across the field as they rode off, Aaron remembered hearing the noise to the left of him, a little further down the road opposite the driveway, but it's possible he saw them from his farm going by).

*The Tom Thumb stranger who "said nothing and glared at costumers".
It's no surprise that there would have been a weirdo in a gas station located off a busy highway.
I just don't see how someone hanging around the Tom Thumb could have known which way they were going.

* DR taught at the middle school in Cold Spring where Jared was walking nearby when he was abducted, and the abductor kept asking Jared if he "recognized him" (perhaps from school?)

*Aaron saw the man yank Jacob up off the ground by the elbow just as Aaron got up to run away, I don't think he was leading Jacob away by the elbow.

*Why on earth would a stranger take Jacob down someone else's driveway especially if there was no car parked down it?
Personally I think the abductor (DR) was forcibly walking Jacob down the driveway and when Jacob started to struggle he picked him up and walked through the grass and into his home, which makes more sense because walking the whole length of the driveway would have taken far too long.
Also the way DR reacted to the abduction, how he didn't want to "waste time" and how he claimed to have seen a car turn around and speed off when Jacob was taken, although DR said he was "sleeping" at the time.
And as far as the motorist who left the tire tracks, if he was involved in some way why would he ever say anything?

*Here's a map I spliced together of the Abduction spot & Rassier farm, Jacob's footprints disappeared near the second telephone pole, it's easy to see why taking a shortcut to the house would have made more sense than walking the whole length of the driveway, also it gives an idea of how isolated the area is.

<modsnip>

*This is all just my opinion at this point, the current investigation could come up with nothing and DR could just remain a circumstantial suspect until something else points toward another POI.

LOTUS,
I totally agree with your theories & reasoning . .
A stranger in this abduction has never made any sense ( to me)

 

[margaret_diane]

1. Re: Jerry Wetterling. They have an older daughter that is older than Jacob.

2. I had heard the rumors back then that Jerry was not Jacob's father. But since they have an older child, I doubt it.

3. I , too, helped in the search and maybe the National Guard person had better info, but all I remember is that the guy asked the children's ages.

4. Please look at the maps and see if you can possibly see how a guy could get ahead of them.

5. The Wetterlings were at a PTA party. This was before cell phones. How would Jerry contact anyone as this was a spur of the moment idea that the kids had.

6. Yes, Jerry was very stoic. Men especially in Minnesota are very stoic. Especially at that in history. Men don't cry.

Human,
Your post above made me think some more... this is what I came up with....

- > we still have a missing 11 year old, attacked by a man who said he had a gun (did the other two kids see a gun?? does anyone know?).

- > the man was said to be dressed in black, wearing a nylon hose mask, and approached from the area of the driveway. Its possible that he may have been in the bushes before the attack as Aaron heard rustling in the bushes on the way to Tom Thumb....

- > SOOOO... what if... maybe DR might have had a friend / visitor that night? Perhaps a drug deal was going down, or should have gone down? Perhaps a robbery of DR's house or maybe even of Tom Thumb's...was the original plan, but then someone saw the boys go by, and decided instead to grab one of them?? BUT... even IF this was the case, there doesn't seem to have been a getaway car (no car heard by the kids as they bolted) etc....

-> DR may well have had nothing to do with this case directly, but the fact that he went to bed as police searched his property, and didn't want to "waste his time" are suspect to me!! I'd like to know -- did this (then) kid call his parents in Europe to tell them the police were searching their property? Did he ever ask police what all the fuss was about?? Of course if he were involved in anything illegal or anything that he might fear might land him in trouble he'd be more likely to retreat into his home, and hope to heaven no one ever found out!!

He may have nothing to do directly with the kidnapping -- but I'm not buying that he's got nothing!!

The ONLY other explanation I can come up with for a man, dressed all in black, hiding in bushes, with a nylon over his head, carrying a gun would be to rob DR's parent's home while the parents were in Europe (did anyone know DR was going to be home alone while his parents were overseas?)... and then that plan became abduction as the kids passed by.

What other possible reason is there for the perp to BE at that farm, in the dark... carrying a gun (presumably), with a mask??????? Its either DR, someone DR knows, related to a robbery that was going to happen then didn't... or related to a deal (drugs?) that someone was dealing on that property that night... or it was just a planned, calculated attack against these kids, which seems so unrealistic given the location of the events in question....

Thats it... those are my best guesses.

 

[shergal]

What exactly does sealed search warrants mean? Does it mean whatever they find, won't be released to the public?

I found this explanation of why the warrant was sealed on this website:

"In the Jacob Wetterling case the warrant is sealed, so even the property owners can't see the full justification for the search."

<modsnip>

Also found this recent overview of the case against DR for those catching up:

<modsnip>

P.S. As far as I know, (per Indybunny's comment) I have never heard that Jerry Wetterling was not Jacob's bio dad. I'm sure the papers would have dragged that up if true. I do remember people back then suspecting Jacob's dad of somehow "hiring" this done. But it makes no sense to me with the timeframe involved. The boys would have probably already been at the store by the time Jerry called anyone, and I'm quite sure others at the home Jacob's parents were at would have noticed him making a call.

 

[human]

Human,
Your post above made me think some more... this is what I came up with....

- > we still have a missing 11 year old, attacked by a man who said he had a gun (did the other two kids see a gun?? does anyone know?).

- > the man was said to be dressed in black, wearing a nylon hose mask, and approached from the area of the driveway. Its possible that he may have been in the bushes before the attack as Aaron heard rustling in the bushes on the way to Tom Thumb....

- > SOOOO... what if... maybe DR might have had a friend / visitor that night? Perhaps a drug deal was going down, or should have gone down? Perhaps a robbery of DR's house or maybe even of Tom Thumb's...was the original plan, but then someone saw the boys go by, and decided instead to grab one of them?? BUT... even IF this was the case, there doesn't seem to have been a getaway car (no car heard by the kids as they bolted) etc....

-> DR may well have had nothing to do with this case directly, but the fact that he went to bed as police searched his property, and didn't want to "waste his time" are suspect to me!! I'd like to know -- did this (then) kid call his parents in Europe to tell them the police were searching their property? Did he ever ask police what all the fuss was about?? Of course if he were involved in anything illegal or anything that he might fear might land him in trouble he'd be more likely to retreat into his home, and hope to heaven no one ever found out!!

He may have nothing to do directly with the kidnapping -- but I'm not buying that he's got nothing!!

The ONLY other explanation I can come up with for a man, dressed all in black, hiding in bushes, with a nylon over his head, carrying a gun would be to rob DR's parent's home while the parents were in Europe (did anyone know DR was going to be home alone while his parents were overseas?)... and then that plan became abduction as the kids passed by.

What other possible reason is there for the perp to BE at that farm, in the dark... carrying a gun (presumably), with a mask??????? Its either DR, someone DR knows, related to a robbery that was going to happen then didn't... or related to a deal (drugs?) that someone was dealing on that property that night... or it was just a planned, calculated attack against these kids, which seems so unrealistic given the location of the events in question....

Thats it... those are my best guesses.

DR was not a kid. He was 34 or 35 years old at the time. He is and was a teacher at the time. He has always lived with his parents except for when he went to Grad school for 2 years in Illinois somewhere.

It was a Sunday night around 9 PM/ Probably not an ideal time for a robbery.

But I am not a robber, so I don't know.

 

[human]

the POI in this case has photography listed as an interest.

I wonder about this child that was found. Is it true that no one claimed this child?

I just remember the incident and it was so horrifying.

 

[margaret_diane]

DR was not a kid. He was 34 or 35 years old at the time. He is and was a teacher at the time. He has always lived with his parents except for when he went to Grad school for 2 years in Illinois somewhere.

It was a Sunday night around 9 PM/ Probably not an ideal time for a robbery.

But I am not a robber, so I don't know.

Thank you for pointing out DR's age at the time of the events... I had somehow thought he was much younger (20 or so years old!). I must have him mixed up with someone else from another case...

In regards to a robbery -- Sunday night at 9:00pm might be a perfect time if you know that the homeowners are out of the country, they live on a dark stretch of road and have no neighbors!!

 

[Lotus]

Or Jacob was taken because DR is a pedophile who got lucky from someone else leaving tire tracks in his driveway that night.

 

[JBean]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108375&highlight=wetterling


Please join us here for discussion. thanks

 

[margaret_diane]

Was just watching an online video of Aaron Larson, discussing the events of the abduction.

http://www.sctimes.com/section/wetterling

And Aaron indicated the first thing that he saw when it began was the light reflected off the gun -- so it appears the boys did indeed see a gun. I wonder now what was the position of the gun if they saw the light on it? Raised? Pointed? Pocketed and partially showing? This point might provide some more insight into the criminal's mind, and how he carried this out (eg: a pointed gun might mean the perp was highly agitated, whereas a partially concealed gun might mean that he was slightly more relaxed, relying on the threat of the gun, rather than feeling the need to aim it at anyone in particular... ). Hope this point makes sense, but if not I'll see if I can clarify it. May not be important to the case, but it is just one of those small details that is bugging me at the moment.

 

[Mandy113]

I hope I've done this link correctly. It's a WS astrological analysis of Jacob's abduction. I had not read it before tonight.

JACOB WETTERLING --a closer look - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


There's a great deal of interesting information here. I recall reading something (on WS) about DR's association with St John's University or St John's Abbey. Can anyone direct me back to that info? I'm accusing no one ... just that it's known there are priests residing at the Abbey who were accused of sexual abuse of young boys. Some were apparently allowed to teach at the University also. It's discussed on this web site which I believe I'm allowed to link as it's being discussed on another thread here.

http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/


(sorry ... apparently the connection to the Abbey & DR was made on the behindthepinecurtain site)

Most importantly though .... does anyone have any links or other information about this young boy's body discovered in the Mississippi River in Feb 1990? Surely Jacob was ruled out as this victim but I'm not familiar with this story at all.

Even as I type this, I realize it all sounds crazy & contrived but Jacob's disappearance has remained a mystery for so long ... I can't help but wonder if it's even remotely possible there's a connection here somewhere that's been missed.

 

[Dejasade]

The thing that gets me is that DR is NOT a sex offender, pedophile, has no prior convictions, etc. If he had, then i'd say for sure he's the guy.
How far away is the house from the abduction site? Could he have heard them walking by?
Even if he had, though, how would he have known they would come back that exact same way???
UGHHH this case frusterates me.