MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

[Jbrown324320]

It would be nice to know these facts
1) what time DR called about the car turning around in his driveway- was it before 9pm (estimated time of the abduction)? 8pm? what kind of car was it and who was in it?
2) who spoke with "Kevin" and how was it determined he was not involved.

 

[human]

Yes, what time did he call about the car?

The parents did not call LE. The neighbor called LE.

I think it is important to get things straight because people come on here and say some untrue things and then they get repeated as if they are fact.

 

[jenilou]

It would be nice to know these facts
1) what time DR called about the car turning around in his driveway- was it before 9pm (estimated time of the abduction)? 8pm? what kind of car was it and who was in it?
2) who spoke with "Kevin" and how was it determined he was not involved.

I'd like to know the time of the call as well. Anyone know offhand. I'd be interested to know what was said as well.

It's not so hard to imagine the perp trying to get Jacob to come with him up the driveway and when he resists too much the perp carrying him off...DR was/is an athletic strong man. Throw adrenaline into the mix and it doesn't seem too out of the question.

 

[shergal]

I think DR mentions the call to LE himself in one of his interviews, I'll check, although I'm not sure he gave a time. Pretty sure it was before 9 though, from what I recall.

 

[shergal]

These are the only mentions (below) of DR talking about a car - it seems it is only his word that a car pulled into his driveway and turned around and sped away "about the time Jacob disappeared." (I wonder how he knew back then what time that was?) More at link.

As far as I know, no 911 call from DR has ever been released, although the neighbor calling 911 about the abduction has been released.
From the Trish Van Pilsum interview with DR (Feb. 2004):

[Investigator:] “Was there any vehicles or anything around at this point that you observed?” [Aaron Larson:] “Uh uh. Not that we could see.”

How did the car come into play? Remember the witness turned possible suspect? It was his account that placed a car at the scene that night. He said it turned around and sped away about the time Jacob disappeared.

and

Remember he (DR) is the witness who placed a car at the scene. Later that night he heard a commotion. It was the search and it was in his yard. He went back to bed.

Trish Van Pilsum: “Why would you go to bed when a kid had just disappeared?”

The Man: “I wanted to get some sleep. I wasn’t going to waste my time.”

Source: http://www.immelman.us/news/jacob-wetterling-rassier-search/

 

[Leprikawn]

So the cops can track the foot prints of a man and boy walking, to the extent they think they can pin point the place where Jacob struggled with him......... But they cant see if tire tracks showed a car turning in the driveway?

Or maybe that is why they are looking at him in the first place?

 

[Cappuccino]

There were tyre tracks in the driveway, from Kevin's car and police cars. Whether there was another car or not we don't know, presumably all the other cars in and out of the driveway that night would make it difficult to tell.

 

[jenilou]

Thanks Shergal- that cleared up a lot. I just wish we knew how he saw a car turn around and speed off from inside his house? That driveway is so long and curvy- and from an aerial view doesn't look like one could see anyone unless they drove all the way up close to the house.

I, personally, think the call was a red herring.

 

[human]

I know I am repeating myself, but think about it

Why would anyone call LE about a car turning around in your driveway

Would you?

 

[Cappuccino]

I know I'm repeating myself too, but it makes no sense for DR to call the police about a car in his driveway from a DR is guilty perspective either. He could have waited till they called at his house to tell them that.

 

[human]

I think he was establishing that a car was there

More people there than just him. Unknown(s) in a car

 

[ShyViolet]

I know I am repeating myself, but think about it

Why would anyone call LE about a car turning around in your driveway

Would you?

No, I sure wouldn't-and haven't on the numerous occasions my drive has been used as a turnaround.

From a guilty perspective, a person might call the police as an afterthought, to create a getaway vehicle where there was none, to deflect attention away from themselves.

IF there was a car, it had to have been parked in the drive longer than to just turn around. So how did DR hear/see a car turn around, yet miss a car pulling in and not hear car doors from a car which would have been closer to the house? Jacob's footprints showed resistance, so it seems likely the car door would have been shut hard once he was in the car.

And while on the subject, I have always wondered why a perp would hide their car in some random driveway, not knowing if the habits of the homeowners? They could pull in/leave at any moment, or even come walking down the drive to bring the garbage to the road, or outgoing mail to the mailbox? There would be no hiding then, and how do you explain blocking someone's drive?

Why not just park on the road, where, if seen, you could just say you were lost? Easier yet, why not just follow the boys (not knowing where they were heading) then pull up beside them, order one to get in and tell the others to run?

I also can't figure why a perp, who was ready enough to have a gun and a mask handy, would wait til after 9pm-an hour he would be unlikely to find kids out alone-to make his move? He would have already had about 3 hours of darkness for cover. On an unusually warm Oct evening in the late 80's, I am sure there were a plethora of kids outdoors earlier that evening.

For all these and a multitude of other reasons already discussed in the threads once the car theory was debunked, all the puzzle pieces kind of fell right in to place for me. jmo

 

[human]

I'm with you Violet

I remember that day so well Actually the day after when we all found out

That Sunday was unseasonably warm

Yes, why would someone park in an unknown driveway? That makes no sense to me

If someone came down the driveway, then the person going down the driveway would have excellent information on the car, etc

 

[shergal]

Good points, ShyViolet. It almost would have to be someone who knew no one was home except DR, if it wasn't him. Excellent point on the car doors slamming too. You'd think he would have heard that, if he heard other things.

There was just one footprint of Jacob's found in the driveway, Leprikawn, kind of "dug in" - Kevin's car drove over any other footprints when he pulled in there.

I've never heard that any cops pulled into the driveway that night, Cappuccino, they were all parked on the road from photos that were shown in the local paper at the time. Because none of them knew yet that Kevin's car had already wiped out some prints. They walked up to his house.

Jenilou, after dark, DR probably could see lights pull in his driveway, and then back out again (the tracks just backed out they didn't "turn around"). But like human said, why would anyone call police because a car turned around in their driveway? Especially a grown man?

 

[SpringThyme]

No, I sure wouldn't-and haven't on the numerous occasions my drive has been used as a turnaround.

From a guilty perspective, a person might call the police as an afterthought, to create a getaway vehicle where there was none, to deflect attention away from themselves.

IF there was a car, it had to have been parked in the drive longer than to just turn around. So how did DR hear/see a car turn around, yet miss a car pulling in and not hear car doors from a car which would have been closer to the house? Jacob's footprints showed resistance, so it seems likely the car door would have been shut hard once he was in the car.

And while on the subject, I have always wondered why a perp would hide their car in some random driveway, not knowing if the habits of the homeowners? They could pull in/leave at any moment, or even come walking down the drive to bring the garbage to the road, or outgoing mail to the mailbox? There would be no hiding then, and how do you explain blocking someone's drive?

Why not just park on the road, where, if seen, you could just say you were lost? Easier yet, why not just follow the boys (not knowing where they were heading) then pull up beside them, order one to get in and tell the others to run?

I also can't figure why a perp, who was ready enough to have a gun and a mask handy, would wait til after 9pm-an hour he would be unlikely to find kids out alone-to make his move? He would have already had about 3 hours of darkness for cover. On an unusually warm Oct evening in the late 80's, I am sure there were a plethora of kids outdoors earlier that evening.

For all these and a multitude of other reasons already discussed in the threads once the car theory was debunked, all the puzzle pieces kind of fell right in to place for me. jmo

Very thoughtful post. I keep going back to the Cold Spring case. What do you think LE would do with evidence linking DR to that assault? There is now a statute of limitations exception for DNA evidence in sexual assaults in MN. Would that apply to such an old crime? Also could a perp be charged with kidnapping which I believe does not have a statute of limitations? I think the same perp committed both crimes based on ther similarities. LE has not made any public statements about DR being a POI for Jared's assault. I wonder if they are keeping evidence secret or if they have none?

 

[human]

it is tempting to link Jared and Jacob, but the 2 may have nothing to do with each other.

If anyone has access to old news articles, there was the handy man in Paynesville who had molested tons of boys during that same period

No link to either case

There are plenty of nuts out there to go around

 

[jenilou]

Very thoughtful post. I keep going back to the Cold Spring case. What do you think LE would do with evidence linking DR to that assault? There is now a statute of limitations exception for DNA evidence in sexual assaults in MN. Would that apply to such an old crime? Also could a perp be charged with kidnapping which I believe does not have a statute of limitations? I think the same perp committed both crimes based on ther similarities. LE has not made any public statements about DR being a POI for Jared's assault. I wonder if they are keeping evidence secret or if they have none?

I've always found it odd that there were so many obvious similarities between the cold spring case and the wetterling case, and it's obviously implied that it could be the same perp, and DR is a person of interest in Jacob's disappearance...yet the LE never come out and said that they've ruled DR out as a suspect in CS case. I know he isn't officially a suspect or hasn't been publicly named one in the CS case, but with all of his ranting and raving about his name being dragged through the mud, if they'd ruled him out via dna or recognition it seems like they would say so.

I wonder if Jared got a good look at the perp or just a quick look. I know there was a sketch.

Didn't the perp ask him several times if he recognized him? That is telling to me.

JMO

 

[jenilou]

I also wonder about the Mary and Susan Reker who were kidnapped/ murdered in Cold Spring about 15 years before Jacob. Could be unrelated.

http://www.spotlightoncrime.org/case_reker_marysusan.cfm

 

[human]

who knows about the girls

I think that there would be DNA evidence with Jared

But, was DNA testing available then?

I think DNA breaks down, so there may not be any

 

[human]

found this

Don't know how helpful it is

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080408110020AANa3LY