MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

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Why not? It was pitch black - no moon, no streetlights, no nothing. Kids with flashlights would stick out like a sore thumb??

Are you saying Kevin is conspiring with DR and made up the story about turning around in DR's driveway? Why would he do that? He has nothing to gain by making that up! DR says he didn't even see Kevin in his driveway - he saw other cars
.

That's the interesting thing: the car DR describes does not sound at all similar to the car Kevin was driving. As far as I can see, Kevin has no reason to lie about his actions. And certainly he would remember whether he pulled into the driveway a short way and turned around or if he drove all the way up near the house and turned around.

I'm inclined to believe Kevin's account of what happened from his perspective. If he had never come forward, no one would have known he was there. So why come forward only to lie? That just doesn't make sense.

I would be interested to hear the story from the perspective of Kevin's girlfriend at the time, who was supposedly with him in the car. Does anyone know if she was ever identified or told her story?
 
Why not? It was pitch black - no moon, no streetlights, no nothing. Kids with flashlights would stick out like a sore thumb??

Are you saying Kevin is conspiring with DR and made up the story about turning around in DR's driveway? Why would he do that? He has nothing to gain by making that up! DR says he didn't even see Kevin in his driveway - he saw other cars
.

How many of you were there who are commenting? I was there looking for him.

Which is it? DR saw cars or he did not.

Please tell me, have you been to the road in 1989 to see what it was like? 1989 is a lot different than today with the development.

Why did Kevin not say anything at the time? There were hundreds of pleas. Kevin had an alibi. Why in the world would he think he would be a suspect?
 
Jacob Erwin Wetterling, 11, Missing 22 October 1989 from St. Joseph, MN

Jacob Erwin Wetterling
Missing since October 22, 1989 from St. Joseph, Stearns County, Minnesota.
Classification: Non-Family Abduction

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: February 17, 1978
Age at Time of Disappearance: 11 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'0; 75 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Brown hair; blue eyes. He wears contact lenses which are possibly tinted blue.
Marks, Scars, Tattoos: Mole on left cheek, mole on right eye, fractured right wrist, scar on left knee.
Clothing: Jacob was last seen wearing a red St. Cloud Hockey jacket with a large St. Cloud Police Department logo embroidered
on the back; an orange reflective vest; blue sweatpants; red t-shirt; blue mesh jersey; and white Nike high-top running shoes with a gray stripe.
Nickname/Alias: Jake
Dentals: Available
DNA: Available

Circumstances of Disappearance

Jacob was riding his bicycle with his brother and a friend during the evening of October 22, 1989. The trio was approached by an unidentified man wearing a mask and holding a gun. They were told to abandon their bikes and to walk to a wooded area nearby.

The man instructed Jacob's brother and his friend to run away without looking back at him. Jacob was never seen or heard from again; extensive searches and manhunts for the unknown suspect have yielded little in the way of clues to this case.

Sketches of Wetterling's abductor are posted below this case summary. The boys described the man as being approximately 40 - 50 years old and 5'8. He had broad shoulders and spoke in a low, raspy voice.

Jacob's family maintains The Jacob Wetterling Foundation, an organization devoted to Jacob's case and additional missing children's cases.

Sketches of Wetterling's abductor at link below.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning Jacob's case, please contact:

Stearns County Sheriff's Department
Detective Dave Nohner
320-259-3700


All information may be submitted anonymously.

Agency Case Number: 89-006407

NCMEC #: NCMC731065

NCIC Number: M391782685

Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:

The National Center For Missing and Exploited Children
America's Most Wanted
Court TV
KARE 11 2004
Polly Klaas Foundation
Minnesota Department of Public Safety
Texas Missing Persons Clearinghouse
CA DOJ
NamUs
The Doe Network: Case File 132DMMN

LINK:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/132dmmn.html
 
Thank you, Richard. This is why we are all here. We are all "searching" for Jacob, whether we were part of a search back in 1989 or currently looking for/sharing information over the internet in 2013.
 
Thank you, Richard. This is why we are all here. We are all "searching" for Jacob, whether we were part of a search back in 1989 or currently looking for/sharing information over the internet in 2013.

I second that thought. Disregarding someone's opinion or theory and claiming it cannot be true because you don't believe its true is counterproductive and bordering on rude. Good to bring some perspective back to the conversation.

Does anyone know if Kevin's girlfriend at the time has been identified or has every told her story? It would be interesting to see how she remembers that night and their encounters with the "medical cop" and the police officer who never took their information.
 
I believe that the bolded remarks to me are rude.

I am asking for the facts. Not ideas or speculations based on things that cannot be true.

For instance, where on that road could there have been a perp watching?

These children had never done this before.

The white van that Joy brings up was weeks later.

And yes. I like the info Richard posted. Anonymous info welcome.

People did not have cell phones back then. There were pay phones everywhere.

Why did Kevin not say anything?

There were huge billboards, pleas on TV and radio, posters, vigils. Why?

And Joy's blog has someone trying to tie the family to this. Truly odious
 
I believe that the bolded remarks to me are rude.

I am asking for the facts. Not ideas or speculations based on things that cannot be true.

For instance, where on that road could there have been a perp watching?

These children had never done this before.

The white van that Joy brings up was weeks later.

And yes. I like the info Richard posted. Anonymous info welcome.

People did not have cell phones back then. There were pay phones everywhere.

Why did Kevin not say anything?

There were huge billboards, pleas on TV and radio, posters, vigils. Why?

And Joy's blog has someone trying to tie the family to this. Truly odious

Ideas and opinions are part of this forum, especially in light of the absence of so many facts. In fact, your suggestion that the perp could not have seen the boys before the abduction is your opinion, which is just as valid as anyone else's opinion. But to assert that your opinions are fact is simply false.

Kevin has explained the reason he did not come forward sooner. You can read it in his account.

The most troubling accusation in your post is that Joy Baker's blog is trying to tie the family to Jacob's abduction. You should back that up with a source before you make such accusations. That seems only fair and, I hope, required by Websleuth rules.

And finally, constructive conversation involves the exchange of ideas and opinions precisely because we don't know what happened.

With that in mind, and hopefully moving away from antagonistic posts in all directions, I'm having a hard time seeing the St. John's connection as some people have suggested. Most of the crimes at St. John's appear to be "grooming" type crimes rather than "grabber" type crimes. I have difficulty believing that those who have generally committed grooming crimes would escalate to such a violent level of crime as this. I think the same applies to the Feeney theory. Any thoughts along those lines? Or evidence of grooming crimes eventually escalating to grabber crimes? I have not come across any.
 
Regarding the speculation of family involvement, it was in a reply to one of Joy's entries on her blog. I do not believe they had any part in it, but here is a link to the blog entry and the comments if you want to read it:

http://www.joybaker.com/2013/04/01/a-few-answers-many-more-questions/#comments

Thanks, that's an important distinction to note. I don't read any of Joy's actual blog posts to be taking the position that the family is involved. It is unfair to suggest she is taking that position because someone left a comment.
 
I believe that the bolded remarks to me are rude.

I am asking for the facts. Not ideas or speculations based on things that cannot be true.

For instance, where on that road could there have been a perp watching?

These children had never done this before.

The white van that Joy brings up was weeks later.

And yes. I like the info Richard posted. Anonymous info welcome.

People did not have cell phones back then. There were pay phones everywhere.

Why did Kevin not say anything?

There were huge billboards, pleas on TV and radio, posters, vigils. Why?

And Joy's blog has someone trying to tie the family to this. Truly odious

I can assure you that I had no intent to appear to be rude in my posts. When I was posting last night, my text and your quote appeared exactly in the same font style when I finished my posts - they blended together without distinction. I even logged off the site and back in again, still the same - so I went in and edited my posts by boldfacing my parts. Now today, I can see your quotes highlighted, and mine are in bold - but I cannot edit them further. If I could, I would remove the boldface - but I cannot. I sincerely apologize if you found my formatting to be rude, that was not my intent.

I understand your frustration "Human", we're all frustrated. Yep, I wish Kevin had come forward in 1989. I wish we had more facts, less speculation - more certainty, less doubt. But we don't.

Myself, I do not find your questioning of opinions or information to be rude. You're absolutely entitled to your own opinions, as we all are. I do however find you to be a bit "stubborn" or not open-minded I guess when it comes to new ideas. Not saying it's a bad thing, again 'cause it's your deal and your right, not mine. However, when you say things that suggest there could not have been a yard light in the DR yard back in 1989 or things like that, I'm gonna challenge you to explain why, or challenge you by saying they're as common in country as a fire hydrant is in the city.

KeepHopeAlive said it best when they said whether we're looking now, or whether we looked in 1989 - we're all searching for Jacob, answers, the truth. The trouble with Jacob's abduction, is that they are very few facts available to the general public. My "thing" is - here we have DR and Kevin coming forward and we're getting their words - without editing, without filtering, without bias, without omission, without prejudice, without personal gain, etc. Let's open up our bias, our opinions, and our dispositions to new ideas and information. Somewhere along the line, something is gonna spark, something is gonna stick, and it's all going to come together - I believe it's just a matter of time. Let's all be constructive, and save some of that time.

Now, "Human", to answer some of your questions above:

White van - Joy brings it up, but I don't see where she says it was right away. But somewhere along the line the media did present us with a story of a white van in connection to Jacob's case. I'm 175 miles away and I heard it.

Where on the road could a perp have been watching? - Anywhere between the Wetterling home and the street where the boys made the final turn to go to Tom Thumb. All the perp had to do was go back the opposite way and wait for the boys to return. A perp on such a mission could have been hiding out with the Tom Thumb in sight, knowing it was not a school night and kids could be out late (I think this is kinda important, given it was a Sunday night. Only locals would know there was no school the next day). The perp could have been in the fields, DR's driveway, or any other driveway along the way.

Joy's blog tying family to the abduction? - No, not that I recall. I believe a commenter suggested that, but not Joy. You can bet that Jacob's family was checked out early in the investigation, because fact is, the vast majority of child abductions are committed by family members. It's absolutely the logical place to start because chances are the search stops there. Not in the case though - I think most of us are satisfied that the family was not involved in any way.

Lastly - I think it's very cool that you're here in the forum, and having been a searcher back in 1989! I think we could all gain some perspective if you could share your story with us at length. What was the search like? Was it well organized? Where did you search? What were you told back then? Were there crops on either side of the road, or were they already harvested?

Thanks!
Rob

PS - Constructive debate, onward we go!! :)
 
Coming here to read has over time become difficult. I did help in the search for Jacob, handed out posters, went to Jacob Wetterling Foundation gatherings. Listened to Patti speak at various school and public settings. I still have so much pain about this mysterious and devastating abduction. As time has gone on, a few more details of who was where when have come out, but it doesn't feel like it has added anything substantial to our "knowledge bank." To this day, the possibilities seem endless in regards to suspects, locals: man who accosted the Cold Spring boy, local pedophiles, a lot of them in Sterns county, someone from LE, someone who knew the whereabouts of the parents that night, neighbor. Then there are the options of an organized "ring" of pedophiles sent out to specifically target Jacob, chance crazy person at the video store from just off the Interstate, . . . the options are endless. The statement made by Troy Bonner about " they killed Jacob," the whole Franklin Scandal, trafficking, and all kinds of the dark, bleak, underbelly of society that I became aware of trying to find answers, literally made me sick. The fact that no one, as far as WE know, has ever heard from him could mean he was taken out of the country, didn't live very long after the event, or brainwashed to the point of not knowing where home is. None of the possibilities are good. I remember my children kneeling down at bed time to pray for Jacob, and his family, my oldest was 3 years younger than Jacob. We talked about him recently, and they said they still think about him and pray for him. God bless him and his family.
 
1989 Police Composite & 2003 Booking Photo
 

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Right now I will ask one question.

Why would Kevin think he would be considered a suspect when he had an alibi? And this was 1989, so one cannot look through the tweeting, internet lens.

If someone has access, they can look for a city directory of that time and try and figure out which family Kevin was visiting. There is a limited amount of homes,
 
Right now I will ask one question.

Why would Kevin think he would be considered a suspect when he had an alibi? And this was 1989, so one cannot look through the tweeting, internet lens.

If someone has access, they can look for a city directory of that time and try and figure out which family Kevin was visiting. There is a limited amount of homes,

I'm not sure if anyone knows for sure which family for sure, but I'm guessing the house was about the area between 12th Street and College Ave, near Minnesota Ave.

My guess is that Kevin was just plain scared. When he was following the path of the cops he didn't realize the full scope of the crime that had been committed. The creepy experience with the medical cop, followed by the news that a child had been kidnapped, and media reports of a car turning around in DR's driveway - I'm sure he felt like he would be a suspect, and just wanted to stay out of it.

Like you, I wish he would have thought through it more and come to understand he was "secure" in his alibi. I'm only glad he's come forward now after all these years.
 
According to DR, he called 9-1-1 when seeing flashlights moving around his wood pile.
http://www.joybaker.com/2013/02/23/dans-story-2/

According to Kevin, he drove all the way up DR's driveway because he didn't realize it was a driveway.
http://www.joybaker.com/2013/04/01/a-few-answers-many-more-questions/

We can choose to believe them or not, but those are their accounts.

I realize lots of people turned up to search during the ensuing days. But that is substantially different from going outside to search for an armed man within a short time after the abduction. Reasonable people can disagree on this point, but I do believe it is reasonable to think someone would be apprehensive about going outside in that situation, deciding it was a job better suited for the police than a civilian. As to whether or not DR volunteered to search at all in the days following the abduction, I do not know, and admit I would view that differently than on the night of the abduction.

I realize many people reject the notion that the perp happened to see the boys coming from the general direction of the road leading to DR's property and eventually the Wetterling home, but it is not impossible that is what happened. If so, the perp could have just taken a chance of finding a dark spot and hoping the boys would go that far down that road. If they did, he would be ready. If they didn't, he would move on. Yes, that is an extraordinary circumstance. But these things do happen. Wrong place at the wrong time, which is exactly what Michael Devlin said about why he was able to abduct Shawn Hornbeck from a rural country road where Devlin otherwise had no reason to be.

I'm open to other possibilities, but I think the known evidence in this crime points to an unknown perp.

It seems to me that some of you are assuming that this Joy Baker has the only correct version of events as they happened. I think it's great that she is so interested in this case and looking into it, but she is accepting DR's new story versions at face value, and conveniently ignoring his original stories he told that have changed over the years. DR DID make statements himself early on in the investigation to reporters and in taped interviews (which have been posted here numerous times also) saying he called police because he saw a car in his driveway, and he also originally said nothing about looking around outside, and stated that he went back to bed, "why would I waste my time." This is an actual documented conversation, and not something a newspaper made up.

I feel we should be here to help find Jacob and not to help DR clear his name, JMO.
 
It seems to me that some of you are assuming that this Joy Baker has the only correct version of events as they happened. I think it's great that she is so interested in this case and looking into it, but she is accepting DR's new story versions at face value, and conveniently ignoring his original stories he told that have changed over the years. DR DID make statements himself early on in the investigation to reporters and in taped interviews (which have been posted here numerous times also) saying he called police because he saw a car in his driveway, and he also originally said nothing about looking around outside, and stated that he went back to bed, "why would I waste my time." This is an actual documented conversation, and not something a newspaper made up.

I feel we should be here to help find Jacob and not to help DR clear his name, JMO.

All good points Shergal. I'm very open minded about all possibilities myself. I would however be interested in seeing the "entire" contents of those early interviews and not edited down versions. I've read that the interview with Trish Van Pilsum was for two hours, but the portions released were only a few minutes. Who knows in what context various things were stated.

I don't feel anyone is out to clear DR's name - I think we're all after the truth and are here for Jacob. I have to say the circumstantial evidence against DR is pretty strong - and the thought that 3 different cars would drive all the way into his yard and turn around in one day is bizarre. I still think that LE doubts that story, and that's why their focus shifted away from an abduction by car once Kevin came forward.

LE's tight-lipped approach over the years has accomplished nothing. Sure wish they would go public with some information if they have it.
 
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