MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
That's why we are all here - to help find Jacob. However, I don't see the harm in letting DR talk. If he's guilty, maybe he will slip up. If he's not guilty, maybe he can somehow provide the one piece of information needed in finding the truth about what happened to Jacob. Right now, DR and Kevin are the only two people coming foward with information (that I'm aware of). Whether you (generally speaking) chose to believe it or not is up to you. I'd rather have more information to sort through than not enough. But that's just my opinion. I wish I had more to offer.
 
Here is another question.

A child has obviously been kidnapped.

Does LE drive to the site casually or do they go racing there with lights and sirens?

I do not know if anyone knows.

However, I am going with common sense that LE came up in a cloud of noise and lights.

Why did DR not notice that??

As far as the perp seeing the kids, I see from looking at the maps the road is not straight. Hard to see around corners, I feel.

Anyone have access to a city directory?

Did Kevin and his GF discuss coming forward? There are two people who did not say anything. How many more in the home that he came from? One would think that someone would say something.
 
It seems to me that some of you are assuming that this Joy Baker has the only correct version of events as they happened. I think it's great that she is so interested in this case and looking into it, but she is accepting DR's new story versions at face value, and conveniently ignoring his original stories he told that have changed over the years. DR DID make statements himself early on in the investigation to reporters and in taped interviews (which have been posted here numerous times also) saying he called police because he saw a car in his driveway, and he also originally said nothing about looking around outside, and stated that he went back to bed, "why would I waste my time." This is an actual documented conversation, and not something a newspaper made up.

I feel we should be here to help find Jacob and not to help DR clear his name, JMO.

well if he is innocent then his name should be cleared...there is no hard proof he is guilty as of yet.....although right now he isn't an official POI right now either.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
 
It seems to me that some of you are assuming that this Joy Baker has the only correct version of events as they happened. I think it's great that she is so interested in this case and looking into it, but she is accepting DR's new story versions at face value, and conveniently ignoring his original stories he told that have changed over the years. DR DID make statements himself early on in the investigation to reporters and in taped interviews (which have been posted here numerous times also) saying he called police because he saw a car in his driveway, and he also originally said nothing about looking around outside, and stated that he went back to bed, "why would I waste my time." This is an actual documented conversation, and not something a newspaper made up.

I feel we should be here to help find Jacob and not to help DR clear his name, JMO.

The problem with DR's story over the years is that we don't really know for sure what it is. The interview with Trish Van Pilsum that is often referenced or quoted to suggest DR's possible involvement was what amounted to snippets of a much longer conversation. I find that impossible to accurately judge because we have no idea what was taken out of context or what was said and not reported that might give us a different view.

Joy Baker's blog and the video interviews from a couple years ago with DR are the most complete version of his words. We can all listen, read, process, and decide on his credibility as we discuss. But I think its unfair to say DR never said anything earlier about going outside to look because we only know what was reported. He very well may not have said so originally. But without access to the full interview, we cannot truly know what he did not say.

Yes, we all are here because we want to see this crime solved. It is not about absolving DR. But there is no reported evidence tying him to this crime other than proximity (and I agree that the police should release more information in this case, and they should not have the affidavits supporting the warrant to search the Rassier farm sealed). We have not seen anything else reported to suggest one bit that he has acted inappropriately towards other children. There is no whiff of other scandal. In my opinion, that is just as persuasive in forming the argument that he was not involved as the proximity of his home to the abduction site is to forming the argument that he was involved.

The larger concern to me, and why I have taken a great interest in what DR is saying to Joy Baker or anyone else, is that the police seem quite focused on DR -- or more specifically that the abductor was local and on foot. If LE is wrong about that point, and necessarily about DR, then by focusing too narrowly on that theory, they will never see and pull on the thread that will unravel this case.

So, any time DR, Kevin, or anyone else involved in this case talks publicly, I will look closely at what they say and make my own judgments about their credibility. And I have no idea who Joy Baker is or what her motivations are, but I'm happy someone is devoting the time and energy to trying to get more information on the record.
 
Here is another question.

A child has obviously been kidnapped.

Does LE drive to the site casually or do they go racing there with lights and sirens?

I do not know if anyone knows.

However, I am going with common sense that LE came up in a cloud of noise and lights.

Why did DR not notice that??

As far as the perp seeing the kids, I see from looking at the maps the road is not straight. Hard to see around corners, I feel.

Anyone have access to a city directory?

Did Kevin and his GF discuss coming forward? There are two people who did not say anything. How many more in the home that he came from? One would think that someone would say something.

My thought was always that the perp was parked, pulled over, or driving somewhere in the area of the homes near the Tom Thumb that the boys had to pass on their way to the store. They were carrying a flashlight, and the perp may have picked up on that, but I'm not suggesting that he saw them at a great distance. I know there doesn't seem to be any reports suggesting the boys saw a car pass them. But that doesn't mean that they didn't pass a car near those homes sitting on the side of the road or in a driveway and didn't notice. I know this would be extraordinary and unusual. But everything about his case is extraordinary and unusual. It is just a theory.

I agree, Human, I would like to know much more about Kevin's story, and especially his girlfriend's story.
 
I wonder if there is any way to get access to the full interview with DR and Trish Van Pilsum???
 
I don't have the faintest idea who is responsible for Jacob's abduction. Very likely it will never be solved.

My primary interest is that nobody be smeared with the stigma of guilt without a reasonable basis. There are people who have been acquitted or have never been charged who people in the community should rightfully display caution in their dealings. I see no one in this case that would justify that level of suspicion.

The St. Joseph PD responded to this case, first of all, as a missing child situation and not as a crime. Many mistakes were made; not the least of these was failure to interview every neighbor close to the crime scene. This is normally SOP. This would not only be the best chance to "screen" these neighbors as possible suspects but also obtain information that might advance the investigation. As the closest neighbor to the abduction scene, DR would have been an important source of information, and excluding him as a suspect with a cursory "look around" would have been pro-forma.

This failure is regrettable but it is hardly "evidence" against DR. We know that the information Kevin provided opened up a whole new line of inquiry; that the abductor didn't have a vehicle, but it by no means ruled out that possibility. In 2005, a "full court press" was attempted on DR. Sometimes people panic, they flee, they destroy evidence or change their story. It is a standard Law Enforcement tactic that often works. In this case it didn't. It doesn't "prove" DR's innocence; hard evidence against somebody else is probably the only thing that will do that.

Perhaps DR is guilty. Is it possible that a man who had not before and has not since displayed any criminal behavior or sexual interest in children, would "crack" that evening? Sure it is possible. Would someone who appears to be intelligent, rational and is known for reasonable behavior commit a crime right in front of his home in a manner that would be expected to draw immediate Law Enforcement response right to his home? It could happen. Still, what we have is an extremely unlikely scenario. We know there was a very similar abduction nearby by someone who did not at all resemble DR. My guess is that was the direction of any resolution to the case; and it may be hopelessly cold.

Unlike the mystery abductor, DR is right there, readily available, for anyone to point at and whisper.
 
I wonder if there is any way to get access to the full interview with DR and Trish Van Pilsum???

That is a million dollar question.

Another thing that bothers me about that interview is that when DR was talking about leaving his house the morning following the abduction, it was Trish Van Pilsum that supplied the words "boxes, big boxes" to DR's account of LE not searching his car. At another time, when left to his own words, I recall DR saying those "boxes" were music instrument cases. If so, I wish he had corrected Van Pilsum. But I think that is an illustration of poor reporting, let the witnesses speak, do not put words in their mouths, because now that exchange is referred to as DR saying he had big boxes in his car, but Van Pilsum actually used those words.

MN MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4 - Page 14 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
post 335 contains a transcript
 
DR was not on the public"s radar screen until LE revealed that he is.

We have no idea of what behvior anyone has had. I know of a teacher that was never accused of doing anything with kids, but he was.

There was a laborer on a turkey farm in Paynesville that was found to have abused many boys. He was eliminated as a suspect. I cannot find anything on this, but it was in the newspapers at the time. Maybe 1990?

There was something about a white car-not a van. Don"t remember why, but they caught a guy who had a concealed gun. That was shortly after.

The DR family is/was highly respected with people in big positions, I imagine the thought of DR doing something was totally out of the question.

As things at St. John's get revealed, we see that what we may believe is nothing like the reality of what goes on. Who knew about pedo priests?
 
Here is another question.

A child has obviously been kidnapped.

Does LE drive to the site casually or do they go racing there with lights and sirens?

I do not know if anyone knows.

However, I am going with common sense that LE came up in a cloud of noise and lights.

Why did DR not notice that??

As far as the perp seeing the kids, I see from looking at the maps the road is not straight. Hard to see around corners, I feel.

Anyone have access to a city directory?

Did Kevin and his GF discuss coming forward? There are two people who did not say anything. How many more in the home that he came from? One would think that someone would say something.

This is a very good point about the sirens, and for as many times as I've thought this through, I hadn't thought about that before. (I myself had wondered why DR did not hear Kevin turn around in his yard, with the dog likely barking, etc.) Kevin says he cannot remember if there were sirens or not, so apparently that is something Joy thought of as well. Usually LE tend to use sirens when going though traffic, but no so much when going through more rural areas. Could be either way with this one I suppose.

Another question I have about this, is why would all the LE vehicles proceed to the Wetterlings home - seems it took them awhile to get to the abduction spot. Again, with the sloppy media reporting we were all led to believe that an officer was at the scene when Kevin was there.

The St Joseph or St Cloud library might have a local directory from 1989.
 
This failure is regrettable but it is hardly "evidence" against DR. We know that the information Kevin provided opened up a whole new line of inquiry; that the abductor didn't have a vehicle, but it by no means ruled out that possibility. In 2005, a "full court press" was attempted on DR. Sometimes people panic, they flee, they destroy evidence or change their story. It is a standard Law Enforcement tactic that often works. In this case it didn't. It doesn't "prove" DR's innocence; hard evidence against somebody else is probably the only thing that will do that.

.

Can you provide more detail about the full court press put on DR back in 2005? I understand that LE changed their theory at the time, but am unfamiliar with what pressure applied to DR.
 
Most of us have read reports suggesting that Jacob's abduction and Jared's abduction were related. In fact, the Stearns County Sheriff at the time stated that investigators had looked at this very carefully and were almost certain that the cases were in fact connected.

However, there have also been reports that LE has DNA evidence in Jared's case, and DR has repeatedly said that he has given his DNA. Has anyone seen anything regarding LE reversing their position that the cases are related. It just seems that if they in fact have DNA evidence for Jared's case, and they have DR's DNA, and they believe the cases are related - that this would exclude DR as a suspect.

Thoughts??
 
This is a very good point about the sirens, and for as many times as I've thought this through, I hadn't thought about that before. (I myself had wondered why DR did not hear Kevin turn around in his yard, with the dog likely barking, etc.) Kevin says he cannot remember if there were sirens or not, so apparently that is something Joy thought of as well. Usually LE tend to use sirens when going though traffic, but no so much when going through more rural areas. Could be either way with this one I suppose.

Another question I have about this, is why would all the LE vehicles proceed to the Wetterlings home - seems it took them awhile to get to the abduction spot. Again, with the sloppy media reporting we were all led to believe that an officer was at the scene when Kevin was there.

The St Joseph or St Cloud library might have a local directory from 1989.

To answer your question about the vehicles all proceeding to the Wetterling home...

To get to the Wetterling home back in 1989 you had to drive through the abduction spot on 91st Ave and past DR's farm road. So LE may have seen and noted the abduction spot and the bikes in the ditch on the way to the Wetterling home - or possibly not if they were hurrying to respond to the 911 call. There was no other direct route to the Wetterlings home back then. 91st Ave. is a long road that turns right off the main street in St. Joe (Minnesota Street) if you are heading east. (This turn off is near where the old Tom Thumb was.) It went past a few homes back then, then DR's farm road, and comes to a "T" on the south end, about 3 blocks past DR's mailbox. It then splits to the right and left. On the left branch was one home with some acreage. To the right was a road about two blocks long which dead ended in Kiwi Court. I believe there were a couple houses right on this short road also. I'd have to go back and look up the name of that short road. It dead ends at Kiwi Court which is where Wetterling's house is. Kiwi court was an oval cul-de-sac with no other outlet. There were approx. 5 homes back then on Kiwi Court, a couple more were added later. You could probably count the homes on one of those old maps to make sure.

I am aware of the names of 4 families who lived there in 1989, including the Wetterlings and Jerzaks. Merlyn Jerzak is the next door neighbor and the dad of Rochelle Jerzak who was babysitting Jacob's younger sister while the boys went to Tom Thumb. Merlyn is the one who called 911. I know two other family names because one family who lived in Kiwi Court back then are friends of ours and they told us the other family name. Those names have never been published, so I am not putting them here. Our friends told us their home and all the homes, garages, surrounding land and/or sheds in Kiwi Court were searched over and over by various LE and FBI for months after the abduction. In fact, our friends finally had a second key to their home made and just gave it to LE so they could search whenever they wanted to. So Rassier's home was not the only home and yard searched over and over.

See video here titled "The Jacob Wetterling story" for details on Jerzak's call and details of the abduction..
http://wn.com/jacob_wetterling
 
Can you provide more detail about the full court press put on DR back in 2005? I understand that LE changed their theory at the time, but am unfamiliar with what pressure applied to DR.

Publicly identifying DR as the new Person of Interest; a high profile, extremely thorough search of his property and a new theory of the crime (there was no vehicle) that pointed right at DR.
 
Most of us have read reports suggesting that Jacob's abduction and Jared's abduction were related. In fact, the Stearns County Sheriff at the time stated that investigators had looked at this very carefully and were almost certain that the cases were in fact connected.

However, there have also been reports that LE has DNA evidence in Jared's case, and DR has repeatedly said that he has given his DNA. Has anyone seen anything regarding LE reversing their position that the cases are related. It just seems that if they in fact have DNA evidence for Jared's case, and they have DR's DNA, and they believe the cases are related - that this would exclude DR as a suspect.

Thoughts??

I would like to hope the police are working more than one theory.

The possible connection between Jared's case and this case has always been intriguing. It would fit the profile of a perp escalating his behavior. But it sure is amazingly coincidental that Jared was a student where DR teaches and Jacob was his neighbor. If DR did not commit either crime, that is an off the charts coincidence.

I don't think DR was the perp in the Jared case. The sketch looks nothing like DR, and DR was much younger at the time. Also, even if Jared did not much see the perp's face, he certainly heard his voice, since the perp repeatedly asked if Jared could recognize him or identify him. DR has a noticeable speech impediment of some sort, I would think that might click with Jared. Also, the lack of a hit on DR's DNA connecting him to the Jared case seemingly rules him out. But that presumes DR did in fact provide DNA, and LE has successfully preserved the DNA from Jared's case. That we don't know for sure.

It seems like another situation where the police are keeping information sealed rather than releasing what they currently have or know or think about the possible connection between these two cases.
 
Jared's description pretty well rules out DR but DNA would close out the issue absolutely. If, of course, Biological evidence was retained from Jared and DR did provide DNA.

DR has claimed that he did give DNA. LE has not challenged that assertion. Obviously DNA has no bearing on Jacob's case since there is no biological evidence but it could be relevant to the Jared case. The trouble is that the Statute of Limitation would apply to Jared's case. In some jurisdictions, once the statue has passed, the retained evidence is destroyed. This isn't always the case, particularly in rape situations since old rape cases could very well be tied to murder cases that will remain active; such as this one.

If the Jared case were to be "solved", it would certainly be considered a substantial lead on the Jacob case and there would be nothing to prevent LE from releasing the information so as to inform the public, warn employers (such as school districts) and consider it in pending investigations. I would speculate that had DR provided DNA and the was a match with the Jared case, we would know. If there was "no match", would LE disclose that? I think they should.

DR is perhaps lying. Maybe he refused to provide DNA or he wasn't even asked. In that case LE could use this "lie" to support their continued investigation of DR. Telling a lie to the media during a murder investigation that could easily be refuted by LE would seem to be very reckless behavior.

There is also the possibility that the request for DNA was just a LE ploy to see what DR would do. The "request" might be interpreted as a means of suggesting to the suspect that "we have forensic evidence you don't know about". They want to see how he would react. By giving DNA, DR wouldn't prove his innocence but he would have "passed" that test.
 
DR has claimed that he did give DNA. LE has not challenged that assertion. Obviously DNA has no bearing on Jacob's case since there is no biological evidence but it could be relevant to the Jared case. The trouble is that the Statute of Limitation would apply to Jared's case. In some jurisdictions, once the statue has passed, the retained evidence is destroyed. This isn't always the case, particularly in rape situations since old rape cases could very well be tied to murder cases that will remain active; such as this one.

If I recall, Minnesota does not have a statute of limitations on kidnapping, so Jared's abductor could still be charged with that crime even if he could not be prosecuted for the sexual assault. In that case, the DNA evidence would be helpful to prove the sexual assault and also helps to prove the kidnapping.
 
Originally posted by Odyssey1492:
But it sure is amazingly coincidental that Jared was a student where DR teaches and Jacob was his neighbor. If DR did not commit either crime, that is an off the charts coincidence.

I would just like to point out that Dan Rassier was a teacher at several different schools in the area at the time, not just at one school. He was the band/music teacher for the Rocori District, which included schools in Cold Spring, Rockville, and Richmond. He also taught at St. Boniface Catholic School. When you consider the number of students who must have attended these different schools over the years, it is not such a coincidence that Jared was one of them.
 
Most of us have read reports suggesting that Jacob's abduction and Jared's abduction were related. In fact, the Stearns County Sheriff at the time stated that investigators had looked at this very carefully and were almost certain that the cases were in fact connected.

However, there have also been reports that LE has DNA evidence in Jared's case, and DR has repeatedly said that he has given his DNA. Has anyone seen anything regarding LE reversing their position that the cases are related. It just seems that if they in fact have DNA evidence for Jared's case, and they have DR's DNA, and they believe the cases are related - that this would exclude DR as a suspect.

Thoughts??

If the DNA matched, it certainly would be enough to arrest him, would it not? Or was the statute of limitations up at the time? I know there was a discussion on this and I do not recall the outcome. I do know the law was changed at some time regarding limitations. Even if he matched , if it was before the law changed, he could not be arrested.

But, LE thinks he is a POI. They dug up the farm at huge expense. Why? They have not eliminated him. Why?
 
Originally posted by human
But, LE thinks he is a POI. They dug up the farm at huge expense. Why? They have not eliminated him. Why?

Maybe LE hasn't eliminated DR because they are under great pressure to solve this case, and DR is a convenient target. He lives near the abduction site, has no alibi since he was home alone, is middle-aged and unmarried, and has not "lawyered up." These things do not mean he is guilty.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
134
Guests online
2,006
Total visitors
2,140

Forum statistics

Threads
602,108
Messages
18,134,763
Members
231,235
Latest member
siblingminds
Back
Top