'creepy' in that it's accurately plausible or plausibly accurate. Pointedly and unabashedly realistic.
MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #6
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'creepy' in that it's accurately plausible or plausibly accurate. Pointedly and unabashedly realistic.
Here's a map from 1989. It does show that Dale Street was there on the north side of DR's woods and crossed the road to the West to various homes. IMO, the perp might have been in a car as Ryan described, (or a fast runner to get ahead of them while they were in the store) but he was local and knew who these boys were and where they lived. Because there are many driveways and the main Dale Street shown here that the boys could have turned off at without ever passing DR's farm.
Cappuccino
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He may have been local and knew where they lived. He may not have been - he may have thought that the road up to and including Dale Street was too risky to accost three children on bicycles. So he drove on down the road and found a nice isolated driveway instead...
There was no way he could have known for sure that that would pan out, of course. But this is a grabber, not a planner. He took a chance and got lucky.
There was no way he could have known for sure that that would pan out, of course. But this is a grabber, not a planner. He took a chance and got lucky.
midwestphd
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I'll throw this out there as well, <modsnip>
DR constantly criticizes LE, the media, and people trying to solve/investigate the case. Yet, he says he wants the case solved, and he keeps talking to media and drawing attention to himself by posting comments on news stories, talking to reporters, etc.
This makes no sense to me. If he is so skeptical of the media, why keep putting himself out there? I really don't understand getting Joy the blogger involved. It just seems to add fuel to the fire for those people he supposedly considers inept (media, LE, others). I also know lawyering up is sometimes seen as a sign of guilt, but at the same time, if DR is innocent and is so worried about protecting his rights as an American citizens, you'd think he'd get himself an attorney. Who would more than likely tell him to keep his mouth shut altogether. Guilty or not, it's like it's a big game for him.
The other thing that I noticed in looking at his statements is that he seems to equate "doing real research" with buying into his own accounts of what happened that night. At one point on the WCCO website, he says something like "if you'd done your homework, you'd know I was working on my record collection that night, and that I was alone."
Someone reading DR's account of that night and then repeating that info elsewhere is not real research. He seems to think "real research" or "doing your homework" means repeating and believing what he, DR, has said. It's a very circular, self-serving kind of reasoning.
DR constantly criticizes LE, the media, and people trying to solve/investigate the case. Yet, he says he wants the case solved, and he keeps talking to media and drawing attention to himself by posting comments on news stories, talking to reporters, etc.
This makes no sense to me. If he is so skeptical of the media, why keep putting himself out there? I really don't understand getting Joy the blogger involved. It just seems to add fuel to the fire for those people he supposedly considers inept (media, LE, others). I also know lawyering up is sometimes seen as a sign of guilt, but at the same time, if DR is innocent and is so worried about protecting his rights as an American citizens, you'd think he'd get himself an attorney. Who would more than likely tell him to keep his mouth shut altogether. Guilty or not, it's like it's a big game for him.
The other thing that I noticed in looking at his statements is that he seems to equate "doing real research" with buying into his own accounts of what happened that night. At one point on the WCCO website, he says something like "if you'd done your homework, you'd know I was working on my record collection that night, and that I was alone."
Someone reading DR's account of that night and then repeating that info elsewhere is not real research. He seems to think "real research" or "doing your homework" means repeating and believing what he, DR, has said. It's a very circular, self-serving kind of reasoning.
Cappuccino
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I suppose it is. But then again, imagine DR is completely innocent, would he not have good reason to criticise LE/the media/people trying to investigate the case? At least in as far as they accuse him. And yes, if he had the sense to lawyer up he would be advised to shut up. But plenty of innocent people buy into the myth that lawyering up is a sign of guilt, and flounder around speaking when they shouldn't.
Everything about DR can be read two ways.
Everything about DR can be read two ways.
DR has the financial means to hire an attorney. People always say they are going to get an attorney and then they hear the price. So, they do without.
DR is a teacher, he teaches at the college, he teaches community school classes, he plays in bands and he gives private lessons, He lives at home with his parents. He should have plenty of disposable income.
At least an attorney could give him some good advice. I feel that DR thinks he is smarter and more capable than anyone, so he does not need advice.
His life is working just fine for him or he would change things. He has the means, so obviously he is doing just fine
DR is a teacher, he teaches at the college, he teaches community school classes, he plays in bands and he gives private lessons, He lives at home with his parents. He should have plenty of disposable income.
At least an attorney could give him some good advice. I feel that DR thinks he is smarter and more capable than anyone, so he does not need advice.
His life is working just fine for him or he would change things. He has the means, so obviously he is doing just fine
I was thinking about Jared. At first everyone thought that the pervert had him for three hours. But, that is not true. Jared was let go and had to walk home. The time with the pervert was not that long. It is difficult to write this knowing it happened to a real life person.
But, it is possible there was not penetration. If you think about it, something like that would need medical attention. So there may not be much DNA evidence.
The perp in Jacob's case may have injured Jacob because the perp did not realize his own strength. When Jacob struggled, he was injured.
I feel the only reasonable answer is that when Kevin came forward , LE knew no car was involved because all tire tracks now were identified with their owners.
But, it is possible there was not penetration. If you think about it, something like that would need medical attention. So there may not be much DNA evidence.
The perp in Jacob's case may have injured Jacob because the perp did not realize his own strength. When Jacob struggled, he was injured.
I feel the only reasonable answer is that when Kevin came forward , LE knew no car was involved because all tire tracks now were identified with their owners.
(snipped by me)
if ALL the tire tracks were identified in 1989 except Kevin's....then LE could have spent all those years looking for a perp in a car versus on foot. Kevin coming forward in 2004 would clear the last set of tracks. That explains LE's only POI. Unfortunately for us only LE knows the tire track evidence. It would be helpful if they could say that at least as that would put more pressure on the POI and remove the car theory from speculation.
This was published in many of the local papers today:
LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE OCT. 22 FOR JACOB WETTERLING; ALL MISSING CHILDREN
The Jacob Wetterling Resource Center is asking individuals to commit to leaving a porch light lit on Tuesday, Oct. 22 to create hope and light in the world in honor of Jacob Wetterling, who was abducted on Oct. 22, 1989, in St. Joseph. The case remains open and unsolved. Jacob’s story has left an indelible mark on the hearts of thousands, if not millions, of people throughout Minnesota, the United States and the world.
JWRC has always asked families to leave a porch light on to honor Jacob on Oct. 22. In addition to turning on an outside light, JWRC encourages individuals to let their own lights shine. Help a neighbor, talk to your child about safety, support a local child-serving organization, the ideas are endless. There is no greater way to honor Jacob than to create a more hope-filled world.
It’s very rare an abductor comes forward to confess to a crime like this one. but in most cases, the abductor tells someone what they did. If you are able to shine a light into this case by coming forward to law enforcement with information that will lead to answers, JWRC encourages you to take that step. Leads on Jacob’s case can be called into the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children at 800-THE-LOST.
The JWRC, originally called the Jacob Wetterling Foundation, was founded in 1990 by Patty and Jerry Wetterling following their son’s abduction near St. Joseph. (www.jwrc.org). JWRC has a proven history of educating families and communities to prevent sexual exploitation and abductions of children and also provides victim assistance to families of the missing.
Jacob’s legacy continues to be honored through JWRC, a program of the Gundersen National Child Protection Training Center. Their mission is to end all forms of child abuse, neglect and exploitation through training, education, advocacy, prevention and awareness, providing care and treatment for children, families and adults.
LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE OCT. 22 FOR JACOB WETTERLING; ALL MISSING CHILDREN
The Jacob Wetterling Resource Center is asking individuals to commit to leaving a porch light lit on Tuesday, Oct. 22 to create hope and light in the world in honor of Jacob Wetterling, who was abducted on Oct. 22, 1989, in St. Joseph. The case remains open and unsolved. Jacob’s story has left an indelible mark on the hearts of thousands, if not millions, of people throughout Minnesota, the United States and the world.
JWRC has always asked families to leave a porch light on to honor Jacob on Oct. 22. In addition to turning on an outside light, JWRC encourages individuals to let their own lights shine. Help a neighbor, talk to your child about safety, support a local child-serving organization, the ideas are endless. There is no greater way to honor Jacob than to create a more hope-filled world.
It’s very rare an abductor comes forward to confess to a crime like this one. but in most cases, the abductor tells someone what they did. If you are able to shine a light into this case by coming forward to law enforcement with information that will lead to answers, JWRC encourages you to take that step. Leads on Jacob’s case can be called into the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children at 800-THE-LOST.
The JWRC, originally called the Jacob Wetterling Foundation, was founded in 1990 by Patty and Jerry Wetterling following their son’s abduction near St. Joseph. (www.jwrc.org). JWRC has a proven history of educating families and communities to prevent sexual exploitation and abductions of children and also provides victim assistance to families of the missing.
Jacob’s legacy continues to be honored through JWRC, a program of the Gundersen National Child Protection Training Center. Their mission is to end all forms of child abuse, neglect and exploitation through training, education, advocacy, prevention and awareness, providing care and treatment for children, families and adults.
I really don't want to upset anyone as I very much doubt this is the case, but some things do bug me about this case. One is that if someone wanted to abduct a child would they not try and get that child when alone?
Why risk leaving two other boys to say what they saw?
If you knew the child and had targeted them, would you risk any kind of abduction at all with other children who might recognise you , even with a bag over your head, or whatever?
Unless you had a psychiatric condition?
Just to rule it out, were the other boys ever questioned as to whether what we think happened, really happened? I am pretty sure they were telling the truth, but want to know if this was looked at at all?
Did they rule out the idea of the boys making up a story because something- maybe accidental happened on that trip?.
I would guess because of the footprints and car tyres we can discount that but does not every possiblity need to be looked at?
Why risk leaving two other boys to say what they saw?
If you knew the child and had targeted them, would you risk any kind of abduction at all with other children who might recognise you , even with a bag over your head, or whatever?
Unless you had a psychiatric condition?
Just to rule it out, were the other boys ever questioned as to whether what we think happened, really happened? I am pretty sure they were telling the truth, but want to know if this was looked at at all?
Did they rule out the idea of the boys making up a story because something- maybe accidental happened on that trip?.
I would guess because of the footprints and car tyres we can discount that but does not every possiblity need to be looked at?
The boys had a leaving time that could be verified by a babysitter
They were at the Tom thumb renting a movie, which can be verified.
Then they returned home. Not much time to do anything.
With all of the searches, where could a ten and 11 year old hide Jacob in a short time? If there was an accident, where is the evidence of that such as blood or?
I wrote before about deer fever.
There are so many deer here that it is a huge problem. They are even on city streets. They are a danger to motorists.
But during deer season, some hunters get deer fever. Excited by the hunt and kill. They shoot anything. Sometimes a child, a parent, a brother, a best friend.
I think the perp saw the boys and was so excited about the opportunity that he was not thinking clearly.
But, it sure worked out for him, didn't it? It wasn't because of his brilliance, that's for sure.
They were at the Tom thumb renting a movie, which can be verified.
Then they returned home. Not much time to do anything.
With all of the searches, where could a ten and 11 year old hide Jacob in a short time? If there was an accident, where is the evidence of that such as blood or?
I wrote before about deer fever.
There are so many deer here that it is a huge problem. They are even on city streets. They are a danger to motorists.
But during deer season, some hunters get deer fever. Excited by the hunt and kill. They shoot anything. Sometimes a child, a parent, a brother, a best friend.
I think the perp saw the boys and was so excited about the opportunity that he was not thinking clearly.
But, it sure worked out for him, didn't it? It wasn't because of his brilliance, that's for sure.
Leprikawn
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if its the same abductor as in the Jared case.....
With Jared he had time! No one witnessed Jared being taken, so the abductor didnt have to hide the vehicle or be in a hurry. He could spend time with Jared finding the perfect spot to abuse him.
With Jacob, he had to get out of dodge quick! He had 2 witnesses and had to get moving to get out of there before being caught.
The two scenarios are quite different.
So either it was two different abductors, or the Perp started to get bold and take chances. A person that is willing to take a chance like this, most likely wouldn't stop.
With Jared he had time! No one witnessed Jared being taken, so the abductor didnt have to hide the vehicle or be in a hurry. He could spend time with Jared finding the perfect spot to abuse him.
With Jacob, he had to get out of dodge quick! He had 2 witnesses and had to get moving to get out of there before being caught.
The two scenarios are quite different.
So either it was two different abductors, or the Perp started to get bold and take chances. A person that is willing to take a chance like this, most likely wouldn't stop.
Yes, and judging by the boys' stressful reaction + fear it seems what happened happened.
This will ramble...sorry... but I am wondering about human's point of all of the car tracks being known....if this is the case, then DR's stories of the 2 vehicles in his driveway are untrue and exploring 'perp in car' theories is a moot point. Also, this scenario means there would be less car tracks and these would be limited to Kevin's car and the vehicles from DR's farmstead-all verifiable(the music student could have walked to the lesson or the vehicle verified). In addition, DR's footprints could have been compared to his shoes in the house(unless he disposed of them or LE didn't look) but then why would he walk up the road later in the night to talk to the officer? Leaving more footprints? He could have changed shoes obviously but still-doesn't make sense. Anyway, I have been a Doubting Thomas regarding DR as the perp and realize there are posters here that have been here much longer that are convinced of DR as perp. And maybe they are a better judge of character than I. In my life's experience I have occasionally dealt with people who were upstanding as far as anyone knew but were found out to not be so upstanding in their personal life-and it shocked me. I have also seen occassions where someone with good judgement of character will mis-judge someone and be fooled themselves. I personally think a car abduction scenario is not only plausible but also probable-it's a method used time + again in abductions. The physical characteristics of the abduction scene lends itself to a perp by car abdcution. However, if there's proof that ALL of the tire tracks on DR's driveway are accounted for then that would be hard to refute.
Isn't it when Kevin came forward that he left the tire tracks?
Isn't that when LE switched gears and started the focus on DR?
Can you think of any other explanation except that the tire tracks were now all explained?
Has anyone ever had the impression that DR was considered to be a suspect until much later?
He had plenty of opportunity to get rid of shoes and clothing. Remember those boxes he was bragging about, for instance?
What reason does LE have to focus on an upstanding citizen when there are so many choices of citizens with bad histories?
Usually the person with lots of assets seems to coast through.
DR comes from a respected family. Why would they focus on him especially when there are the Bahners that have been implicated in the tapes. Or the mysterious Ben or Lou? Where is the sense in it?
ELOCsoul
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For the sake of argument, let's assume that the above statements are true. These statements, along with LE's publicly naming of DR as a POI, and along with significant and expensive searches of the Rassier property, it logically follows that one of the following scenarios would have to be true (IMO):
A. That DR is the perp in Jacob's abduction.
B. That DR was an accessory (perhaps after the fact) to Jacob's abduction that was committed by another unnamed person. (Remember that a POI is not necessarily a suspect of the crime, but could be someone with knowledge or information of a crime.)
C. That LE, including the St. Joseph police, Stearns County Sheriff's office, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, and the FBI are all involved in a coverup to protect the real perp. (Because, if A & B are false, and the above statements quoted are true, it follows that DR had absolutely nothing to do with the abduction, and it would therefore follow that LE is simply harassing DR because he is an easy target).
Again, I am not saying the statements quoted above are accurate. I am only saying that if the statements are accurate, there are only 3 logical scenarios of who the perp is, as described above, IMO.
So, if C is true, it would then follow that the Wetterlings would also be "in" on the conspiracy against DR. Would they agree to be "in" on this for the furtherment of the Wetterling Foundation?
thenotebook
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Is there any chance that the perp did NOT intend to use Jacob in a sexual manner? Or does the fact that he asked their ages imply that it was pedophilia? What if he just wanted a boy that age to raise as his own ??
Trackergd
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TRACKER: While re-watching the WCCO video above, I was able to get a screenshot of a view of the tire track. I think the other pic you used was more of an angled shot.
I have never seen this picture. I will print it out and see if I can figure out what brand and time frame it was produced. The FBI has a great resource for this. I have an older tire guy who has probably seen every tire ever made.
Jbrown324320
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ELO Soul
I agree with everything you said except the Wetterlings being "in" on the conspiracy against DR to further their Wetterling foundation. To me that is an outrageous statement. I think it is plausible the police and/or DR may be covering for someone they know but the Wetterlings have no knowledge of who did it and or why. They have been nothing but cooperative. The sheriffs dept have not been so cooperative.
I agree with everything you said except the Wetterlings being "in" on the conspiracy against DR to further their Wetterling foundation. To me that is an outrageous statement. I think it is plausible the police and/or DR may be covering for someone they know but the Wetterlings have no knowledge of who did it and or why. They have been nothing but cooperative. The sheriffs dept have not been so cooperative.
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