MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

[shergal]

just to be clear, I have no idea of how many tire tracks there were in the driveway.

I am just making an assumption as to why a car was eliminated when Kevin came forward. I am assuming that all tire tracks were then identified.

We do not know if there were any adult footprints . That has never been disclosed that I know of.

Once again I ask if anyone knows how long DNA would remain viable. I am wondering about the human blood found on the chest at the DR home

I'm no DNA expert, but I googled it and found this. Seems like DNA remains intact for a long time if properly preserved, human:

http://www.detectingdesign.com/fossilizeddna.html

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/fluoresceinmethod.html

Someone in the field may know more on the subject.

 

[cGorg]

I have a question(off topic from the current discussion): why were the findings + postings about LK expunged from this forum?

 

[bessie]

I have a question(off topic from the current discussion): why were the findings + postings about LK expunged from this forum?

Because there was doubt about the whether the person was the correct LK. Also, one post contained a link to a relative's FB, which is against the rules.

ETA: This LK may still be off limits. I don't see where he was named in the media, or by LE as a suspect. Is the only link to him the "Bahner tapes"?

 

[ELOCsoul]

Because there was doubt about the whether the person was the correct LK. Also, one post contained a link to a relative's FB, which is against the rules.

ETA: This LK may still be off limits. I don't see where he was named in the media, or by LE as a suspect. Is the only link to him the "Bahner tapes"?

Yes this is correct. The Lou from the Bahner tapes was identified but not from media documentation that could be referenced. Ben Bina was identified in media reports that I referenced, but I could not provide a link to or post the article itself. (I think I'm understanding correctly that articles cannot be scanned to WS unless accompanied by a link?)

In any case, the whole Bahner tapes thing was investigated by LE and discredited. Bina was interviewed on KSTP right after a television show called "Vanished", which opened with a segment about Jacob Wetterling.

 

[ELOCsoul]

I'm no DNA expert, but I googled it and found this. Seems like DNA remains intact for a long time if properly preserved, human:

http://www.detectingdesign.com/fossilizeddna.html

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/fluoresceinmethod.html

Someone in the field may know more on the subject.

I have noticed many cold cases lately, from the 1989-1983 time period, that are being solved now through old DNA evidence. If there is good DNA evidence in Jacob's case, I wonder if a break in the case is imminent due to advanced DNA technologies?

 

[human]

thanks Sher. I think we still need more input on how long DNA may last.

We know nothing in terms of what LE has for DNA.

the Sheriff said they were keeping things for advances in technology, so who knows what they have. The bloody trunk, bones? what else. Who knows

 

[Marzipan]

I've read through all the old threads. This group sure has covered a lot, some of it familiar to me and some new. I also re-watched the Esme Murphy and Julie Nelson interviews of DR. I thought I remembered another video interview of DR from the time, but couldn't find it. I think, if I recall correctly, he was wearing a blue or turquoise polo shirt in it. Does anyone remember that one (or am I remembering wrong?)

In the older interview ("I wasn't going to waste my time") he seemed odd, but I know we didn't get to see the whole interview. In the 2010 interviews, DR did a good job convincing me. I know people have done all sorts of statement analysis, but when I read the SA separate from watching the videos it seems much more suspicious than in the context of what he is actually saying or responding to.

Here are some questions and things that stick with me from reviewing the old threads:
1.) Lots of talk about the abductor "shopping" for a specific age child. Earlier this was thought to indicate pedo ring, but later people mentioned that he could have been taking a child "to order" to bring to someone closer by (even a visitor in a nearby house).
2.) Sheriff does not completely rule out possibility of a vehicle, but IDing Kevin's car (along with fact that kids didn't hear a vehicle) "diminishes" the likelihood.
3.) So many of the links from old threads are now broken, so it's hard to know for sure, but it seems like LE has kept their suspicions close enough to the vest that we do not really know who has been finally ruled out, or who is a suspect. So, e.g, we don't know if certain priests, or Bahners, or LK, are on or off the list. I see nothing about LE reaction to the Stearns Truth tapes, discredited or not. DR is only named POI, but doesn't mean he's the only POI.
(Correct me if there is info about any of this...especially because I miss so much by not having all links working.)
4.) I read one mention (but no working link) that possibly DR had at first told LE that he had not been home alone, that his parents were home. Wish I could know if that were true.

I'm not naive: Even though I say DR sounds very convincing, and in context of rewatching it I am more understanding about some of the things that sound odd in print, I know people can deceive.

Glad this conversation is still going after all these years. I see some of you have been on it since the start.

 

[Marzipan]

Forget my #3 above. I hadn't yet read the earliest posts from the current thread. Seems there were some posts quoting news/LE about some suspects being ruled out, or at least saying the info about them was "unreliable."

 

[cGorg]

Marzipan,
Great post! I was thinking along similar lines.
Looking for a summary of where we are at and where to go from here.

 

[human]

Marzipan, I think being named POI is huge considering that DR comes from enough money that he could sue with that kind of statement.

The Sheriff has said plenty re the digging up of the farm. The objects taken, the additional search sealed warrants, the keeping of objects and items for advances in science.

I say once again that the POI label is given out sometimes to get people to come forward with information that they may have.

What other explanation is there for the tire tracks once Kevin identified himself? LE is pretending other tracks that are not identified play no part in this?

if the Bahners or others are suspected, why have they not been named POI?

they do not have the money to fight LE on that designation plus they have the criminal records that cast them in the possibility light.

Why select such an upstanding citizen such as DR who spends numerous hours with children in his regular job as well as other jobs with children in the community, including teaching them in his own home?

 

[human]

has anyone found the newspaper article where DR shouts out to LE that he is not wasting his time.

it is out there somewhere. The reporting happened right at the time.

 

[shergal]

Marzipan, I think being named POI is huge considering that DR comes from enough money that he could sue with that kind of statement.

The Sheriff has said plenty re the digging up of the farm. The objects taken, the additional search sealed warrants, the keeping of objects and items for advances in science.

I say once again that the POI label is given out sometimes to get people to come forward with information that they may have.

What other explanation is there for the tire tracks once Kevin identified himself? LE is pretending other tracks that are not identified play no part in this?

if the Bahners or others are suspected, why have they not been named POI?

they do not have the money to fight LE on that designation plus they have the criminal records that cast them in the possibility light.

Why select such an upstanding citizen such as DR who spends numerous hours with children in his regular job as well as other jobs with children in the community, including teaching them in his own home?

DR could also be named as a POI just because LE feels he knows who did this and he is covering for them. It doesn't have to mean that he did anything. He could just be covering for someone close to him and not telling all that he knows.

 

[cGorg]

I wonder how LE decided the last set of tire tracks were Kevins? If Kevin came forward in 2004 that's 15 years. I doubt Kevin would have had the same tires on his car or maybe even not own the same car at that point. Assuming Kevin had records of the tires and LE checked that out and if not, then they simply took his word for it? Or can they find out the tire model based upon the VIN # of the vehicle?

And maybe Kevin's tracks covered the perps tracks?(if there was a vehicle). Or maybe the lack of preservation of the crime scene obliterated most of the evidence...seems like the available footprints from Jacob were minimal at best. Has anyone ever seen an aerial picture showing yellow tape protecting the 40 yards in question? I've only seen pictures of yellow tape around the boys bikes + scooter.

 

[buffetoflies]

Read something intersting on KSTP's FB just now. There is a comment on this picture having to do with child sex abuse in the saint cloud area. I wonder if it goes back to 30 years...

The jordan sex abuse scandal was blown off as being false memory, but sometimes I wonder.

details about jordan sex abuse

 

[human]

Read something intersting on KSTP's FB just now. There is a comment on this picture having to do with child sex abuse in the saint cloud area. I wonder if it goes back to 30 years...

The jordan sex abuse scandal was blown off as being false memory, but sometimes I wonder.

details about jordan sex abuse

there is much info on this case. I will see if I can find a link. A relative of mine has adopted children. They were in a support group of families who had taken in some of the children. There was a bathtub filled with poop.

It is felt that the abuse happened. This case was in the FBI training manual because there were procedures established because of the investigation. It was not handled well.

you will see in the link that it is believed to be a true case. Not all things. The homes the children in were revolting.

 

[human]

I wonder how LE decided the last set of tire tracks were Kevins? If Kevin came forward in 2004 that's 15 years. I doubt Kevin would have had the same tires on his car or maybe even not own the same car at that point. Assuming Kevin had records of the tires and LE checked that out and if not, then they simply took his word for it? Or can they find out the tire model based upon the VIN # of the vehicle?

And maybe Kevin's tracks covered the perps tracks?(if there was a vehicle). Or maybe the lack of preservation of the crime scene obliterated most of the evidence...seems like the available footprints from Jacob were minimal at best. Has anyone ever seen an aerial picture showing yellow tape protecting the 40 yards in question? I've only seen pictures of yellow tape around the boys bikes + scooter.

as I said, if LE identified all tire tracks and there was ONE unknown, then when Kevin came forward, LE now had all tracks identified. They did not need to see Kevin's tires. He said he was there, so there goes the track that was unknown

 

[human]

i wonder with this Third World country connections that we are finding with some of the friends of DR, if the reason that there are no more abductions of the Jacob sort because the perp lives now in a Third World country where access to children is easy peasy

 

[human]

here is info on the Jordan case which is in Scott County, not Stearns.

anyway, it is the info that impacted LE and these kinds of cases

http://www.a-team.org/scott_county.html

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

as I said, if LE identified all tire tracks and there was ONE unknown, then when Kevin came forward, LE now had all tracks identified. They did not need to see Kevin's tires. He said he was there, so there goes the track that was unknown

So LE just took Kevin's word for it? I'm not suggesting that Kevin is/was lying. I'm just wondering if they were actually able to prove the tracks belonged to the car that Kevin was driving at the time.

 

[cGorg]

So LE just took Kevin's word for it? I'm not suggesting that Kevin is/was lying. I'm just wondering if they were actually able to prove the tracks belonged to the car that Kevin was driving at the time.

Yes, that's my point exactly. Thank you. Trust but verify. Kevin obviously had his girlfriend plus others to verify his whereabouts. Just what if that set of tracks didn't match Kevin's girlfriend's car-then what?. It's disturbing that neither he nor his girlfriend or others(girlfriend's brother + wife) did not come forward immediately because apparently the tires were new at the time. Probably LE could have investigated tire stores in the area to verify and maybe they did. But if they solidly identified the tracks then why not say so thus strengthening their case and adding pressure to the POI. Sorry to be muddleheaded about this but the 10-23-89 picture of Investigator Steve Mund spraying something(I assume Jacob's footprints) on the road still bothers me. If you look at that picture there's tire tracks in a curving pattern around the investigator...does anyone else see that? Trackergd? Why would there be tire tracks in this trajectory in that section of the road?