MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #9

[Pensfan]

Here is an article on cadaver dogs locating a burial ground from the Trail of Tears (1831-1838). That scent is 183 years old.
http://www.timesdaily.com/news/local/article_0943980a-fcd4-11e3-8551-001a4bcf6878.html?TNNoMobile

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Posted below is a link to an old study published in the Journal of the American Institute of Criminal Law and Criminology. The subject is morbid impulses and morbid obsessions. In this article there is information on how neuropathic individuals (archaic term) have such thoughts as well as mentally healthy people. Psychopaths under stress have less resistance to their morbid obsessions and impulses. When experiencing various forms of stress, they are likely to act upon their disturbing thoughts.

When asking yourself why the information of other abductions or attempted abductions in the area DOESN'T correlate with Jacob's abduction information, realize that Jacob's abductor may have only one victim. He may have only one victim because there was only one week when his parents traveled from the farm and weren't home to "discourage" his morbid impulses.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/1133517

DR's parents' trip to Europe was his window of opportunity. imo

 

[shanmosphere]

Here is an article on cadaver dogs locating a burial ground from the Trail of Tears (1831-1838). That scent is 183 years old.
http://www.timesdaily.com/news/local/article_0943980a-fcd4-11e3-8551-001a4bcf6878.html?TNNoMobile

These remains were not incinerated like I believe Jacob's were. There would be almost no trace left.


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[Wisdom]

These remains were not incinerated like I believe Jacob's were. There would be almost no trace left.


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The items in his garage were not incinerated.

 

[Pensfan]

The oldest human remains found by the dogs date back nearly 1,000 years, found in an archeological dig in Mississippi.
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/...time-of-training-to-search-for-human-remains/

 

[Caoutchouc]

The oldest human remains found by the dogs date back nearly 1,000 years, found in an archeological dig in Mississippi.
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/...time-of-training-to-search-for-human-remains/

Interesting. Thanks for the info, and I'll read up on it a bit more.
However, relating back to the search for Jacob, wouldn't you agree that if the dogs had made a conclusive hit on DR's farm he'd have been at VERY least arrested if not arrested and charged?

It makes no sense to claim the dogs conclusively determined there was evidence of a human cadaver, then the subject was dropped

Am I missing something?

 

[Pensfan]

These remains were not incinerated like I believe Jacob's were. There would be almost no trace left.


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Cadaver dogs do more than locate bones. They can identify an area of carpet or a blanket where a dead body was placed for only 2 minutes. Jacob's dead body could have been in that cedar trunk before he was incinerated.

One of the questions surrounding human cadaver dogs is how soon after death they can recognise a corpse, and how long a "fresh" corpse must remain in one place for a dog to detect that it has been there. In a study published last year, the forensic pathologist Lars Oesterhelweg, then at the University of Bern in Switzerland, and colleagues tested the ability of three Hamburg State Police cadaver dogs to pick out – of a line-up of six new carpet squares – the one that had been exposed for no more than 10 minutes to a recently deceased person.

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. The research concluded that cadaver dogs were an "outstanding tool" for crime-scene investigation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...uth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

 

[Pensfan]

Interesting. Thanks for the info, and I'll read up on it a bit more.
However, relating back to the search for Jacob, wouldn't you agree that if the dogs had made a conclusive hit on DR's farm he'd have been at VERY least arrested if not arrested and charged?

It makes no sense to claim the dogs conclusively determined there was evidence of a human cadaver, then the subject was dropped

Am I missing something?

Yes. Some DAs are more confident than others. Some want 100% proof of the victim (a DNA match) and others will prosecute with only circumstantial evidence. There was evidence of a cadaver, but LE couldn't prove whose cadaver it was (not enough DNA or not enough undamaged DNA to match with Jacob).

Stay hopeful. Technology is improving and LE kept the items to reprocess.

 

[Caoutchouc]

Yes. Some DAs are more confident than others. Some want 100% proof of the victim (a DNA match) and others will prosecute with only circumstantial evidence. There was evidence of a cadaver, but LE couldn't prove whose cadaver it was (not enough DNA or not enough undamaged DNA to match with Jacob).

Stay hopeful. Technology is improving and LE kept the items to reprocess.

Hummm. I'll keep an open mind, but short of scientists inventing a time machine which would allow retroactive surveillance footage of the night in question, I can't imagine how any new technology would readily hold up in court, facing the same problem as you've mentioned- inconclusive evidence

I think the case was so high profile that the local DA would've jumped at the chance to hold or charge DR if they could have. IMO because they didn't have anything marginally conclusive, they "hung onto evidence" to save face.
Those digs and searches are expensive! They had to show something for it (again, my thoughts)

 

[FindTim]

All evidence points to the contrary of Jacob being carted off in a chest. Your assessments still lack proof.

Also, you've noted multiple times that the chest "reeked". That's a strong word for no references.

Yes. Some DAs are more confident than others. Some want 100% proof of the victim (a DNA match) and others will prosecute with only circumstantial evidence. There was evidence of a cadaver, but LE couldn't prove whose cadaver it was (not enough DNA or not enough undamaged DNA to match with Jacob).

Stay hopeful. Technology is improving and LE kept the items to reprocess.

 

[Trino]

If you haven't followed this case, start from the first thread and catch up. Google can be your friend. Many of the 2010 articles are also no longer available on the Internet. To read some old articles, you have to use such sites as I posted above to read the articles in their entirety.

Try to understand that cadaver dogs (plural) were brought from out-of-state to Dan's house. Through the cadaver dogs efforts, they identified objects from Dan's garage which LE confiscated and continues to hold as evidence. With the findings from the cadaver dogs on day#1 of the 2010 search, LE was able to obtain more search warrants for the inside of Dan's home.

LE didn't play Eenie Meenie Miney Mo to select the objects from Dan's garage which LE has RETAINED AS EVIDENCE. Cadaver dogs only identify cadaverine therefore, Dan's garage had objects in it which reeked of cadaverine. One of these objects was a cedar chest. (Scary!)

The accuracy of cadaver dogs is not 100%.

 

[Trino]

And that's where Jacob's scent stopped as well. Police dogs tracked his scent to that location as well. If he was hiked onto DR's shoulders they would have followed it further.

PW stated something about J not being a passive youth (no reference). If he was hiked onto someone's shoulder's, where's evidence of a struggle? Would he not have yelled? Try hiking an 80 lb struggling boy onto your shoulders. Unless... unless there was more than one abductor.

 

[Pensfan]

Hummm. I'll keep an open mind, but short of scientists inventing a time machine which would allow retroactive surveillance footage of the night in question, I can't imagine how any new technology would readily hold up in court, facing the same problem as you've mentioned- inconclusive evidence

I think the case was so high profile that the local DA would've jumped at the chance to hold or charge DR if they could have. IMO because they didn't have anything marginally conclusive, they "hung onto evidence" to save face.
Those digs and searches are expensive! They had to show something for it (again, my thoughts)

I think the case was so high profile that the judge (an elected official) wouldn't have granted additional search warrants (for day #2 of the 2010 search) for Dan's home if the cadaver dogs had not identified cadaverine.

 

[Pensfan]

PW stated something about J not being a passive youth (no reference). If he was hiked onto someone's shoulder's, where's evidence of a struggle? Would he not have yelled? Try hiking an 80 lb struggling boy onto your shoulders. Unless... unless there was more than one abductor.

If he was thrown into a cedar chest, his voice wouldn't have carried very far.

Check out Dan's FB page. He is carrying HUGE logs and is now 27 years older than when Jacob was abducted.

 

[Pensfan]

The accuracy of cadaver dogs is not 100%.

The random error of TWO cadaver dogs is almost nil.

 

[Ifollowthis]

No....but like pantyhose...those thin nylon running tights or shorts sure could double as a make shift mask in a jiffy couldn't they. That is what I was thinking about

Genius thought, never thought of running shorts for a mask, but sure would work! Now if only I could get the picture out of my head of running tights and combat boots! ;-)

 

[shergal]

PW stated something about J not being a passive youth (no reference). If he was hiked onto someone's shoulder's, where's evidence of a struggle? Would he not have yelled? Try hiking an 80 lb struggling boy onto your shoulders. Unless... unless there was more than one abductor.

Or unless he was knocked out.

 

[Trino]

Or unless he was knocked out.

No evidence of a fall or an indentation of it. Not even evidence of a struggle. So strange. I think he had to be out of the area in a few minutes.

Obviously, from my posts, I don't think DR was involved, and despite lack of evidence, I believe a car was involved. I have no idea where it was hidden - perhaps not around the immediate vicinity - but I think it was there.

 

[Pensfan]

All evidence points to the contrary of Jacob being carted off in a chest. Your assessments still lack proof.

Also, you've noted multiple times that the chest "reeked". That's a strong word for no references.

No, all evidence doesn't point away from Dan carting Jacob off in his cedar chest. In fact, this simple explanation is the most logical.
1. Jacob's scent abruptly ended on the driveway.
2. Dan's cedar chest reeked/smelled/stunk of cadaverine attracting two cadaver dogs.
3. Dan's FB photos show that he can lift very heavy objects even at 51 years.
4. There were not other footprints or tire tracks in Dan's driveway.
5. Jacob was not heard yelling.
6. Dan wants his items taken in the last search (cedar chest is one of them) returned to him.
7. No evidence of a fall or struggle in the gravel.

I've provided you with several references and the logic to interpret their information. Reread posts 1165, 1174, 1178, 1179, 1182, 1183, 1192, 1193, 1197, and 1199. Especially concentrate on post 1174 (LE didn't play Eenie Meenie Miney Mo to select the objects from Dan's garage which LE has RETAINED AS EVIDENCE.)

 

[Caoutchouc]

I think the case was so high profile that the judge (an elected official) wouldn't have granted additional search warrants (for day #2 of the 2010 search) for Dan's home if the cadaver dogs had not identified cadaverine.

I disagree and can cite case law, but I won't bore you with the details.The outcome remains the same - no one was taken into custody or charged