Yes.. it was an out of body experience. My sisters were "hoovering" over me that Christmas.. and when I found out the rumor later about me dying, I called them each up seperately and asked if JF had told them I was going to die? They both defended her, said not to get mad at her because she knew she wasn't supposed to tell, but that they were glad that JF told them about it. She told people when I was younger that I had Lupus, later that I had Multiple Sclerosis, and.. after I caught her, that I was bi-polar, or schizophrenic and not to listen to me. If I understood if she knew what she was doing, then I would understand the motivation better. Could it be like.. early alzheimers or something? or.. just liking the attention? thank you for your opinions. quite a tangled web.
MO MO - Dennis Spriggs, 47, LaBelle, 15 July 1992
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Arizona girl, 2, left in car by father on 109-degree day and is found dead #2
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SuziQ
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Well.. it's better to laugh than cry I always sayThanks Scandi. SillyRabbit.. thanks for your clarification- the reason I brought it up was more because of a call from a family member recently where JF had called saying she needed 25k to defend herself in court because she was indicted for murder. It was not true- nor had there been any papers served on the wrongful death since Jan. so.. things like that confuse me as to the purpose. I would appreciate your opinions(s) about something. If someone is consistently lying about something, could it be some kind of a mental disorder rather than covering something? Have you ever seen something like that?
I think JF needed 25K and was trying to scam people. Yeah, people like her have what's called a personality disorder. It's not a mental illness and there is no cure. The legal system gives no breaks to rotten people. Think psychopaths, anti-social, pathalogical liars and narcissists. In other words, she's just a self centered mean person.
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Hey, do you all remember the couple from Richfield that kidnapped their daughter the night before her wedding? The mother did many of the same things JF did, although she hadn't murdered anyone. One story, IIRC, is that she ran off one of her daughters fiances. The reason? He wore a ring left to him by his dead brother and that marked him as evil. And there is so much other info that came out I don't recall the exact details of. She called peoples bosses and spouses, telling lies, etc. She basically wreaked major havoc in the lives of the people around her.
When the mother was finally sent to jail, she was evaluated by a psychologist. The psychologist came back with a recommendation of incarceration. He said that the mother was suffering from Narcissistic personality disorder that was incurable. And in his experience there was no treatment and incarceration seemed to the the only thing that might get through. The judge ordered her to remain jailed and serve her entire sentence.
When the mother was finally sent to jail, she was evaluated by a psychologist. The psychologist came back with a recommendation of incarceration. He said that the mother was suffering from Narcissistic personality disorder that was incurable. And in his experience there was no treatment and incarceration seemed to the the only thing that might get through. The judge ordered her to remain jailed and serve her entire sentence.
I am going to look that story up. I will say that I have heard a little inside scoop on the personality profiling, but only to say that there are two schools of thought at play here with the team of experts brought in, and that depending on what results come back from the autopsies then she will be given one label or the other. Neither is good I was told. I have my own theory of what the two schools of thought might be based on questions i have been asked from authorities, but hesitate to post those ideas. You know.. money has always been an issue with JF, including being accused of embezzlement from one of the chambers of commerce where she worked. I accepted her with the money issues, even when she stole from me, but- these new developments are too much to turn a blind eye to and not wonder if you'll face God yourself someday for not saying something.
That story that you posted about the mother wreaking havoc and somewhat delusional made me think SuziQ. It is what I always wonder about JF. I always wonder if she just had so much trauma through all of the losses herself, that she "lost it" and is going around doing or saying things that are just nuts, but not "evil". I can site different times that I truly think JF did actually say something, then within days claim she had no memory of it, and really TRULY seemed believable. You have to understand, this is all I have left to hold onto- that there is something driving her that is just.. uncomprehensible to me, or others, but is the mother I remember taking me to the swimming pool when I was young, or teaching me to brush my hair 100 x.. or how to push the cuticles down on my nails. Because--if she KNOWS what she is saying, there is only one alternative- and- it is something that I will not be able to face entirely ever- no matter what. Does that make sense?
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I can't imagine having to be in the shoes of someone that has a parent who has their loving side then turns around and tries to poison them. Or makes it appear they are their next target. It would have to be about the most confusing place to be. This is what causes the greatest damage to a toxic personalities victim's. I'll be curious to what the profilers came up with.
I can only offer my own experience which didn't involve murder and mayhem that JF has appeared to have commited. Growing up I was soooo confused by my mother being nice and then her turning around and stabbing me in the back. It's only been in the recent years that I realized that the nice part of her was usually to benefit her somehow. She either needed a confidant that day or needed me to appear like the normal kid so people wouldn't suspect there was something seriously wrong going on at home.
wow.... you do understand. Like- kids are something to "show" to someone, to lower the guard, to bring in the next husband, to show what a loving normal person she must be if she could produce children or grandchildren. And- make no mistake- when I asked JF the first time to clarify what happened to her second husband- and why she was getting married to quickly to the third, she rebuffed me-(very unlike her to take a stand to someone's face) and within 8 weeks I was twitching, lost my vision, and had to be sent out of town in a wheel chair for my mother-in-law to care for me. I missed her next wedding which went on as planned even though I was supposedly fighting a rapidly onsetting handicap of some type. My neurologist later told me I was poisoned, but he didn't know with what. I am so sorry that you understand any of this from a personal experience standpoint... it gives a person a 6th sense of some type doesn't it? teaches us to see things going on in front of us that others don't see, but at the same time blinds us somehow to the actions of our loved ones if we can't escape it. I appreciate you taking your time to care about this situation.
I have been reading some posts out here about narcissm which you proposed, and I'd never really considered. I always thought of a narcissistic personality as being annoying, but never as someone who is capable of heinous acts. Reading some of the other threads, and seeing the words narcissm come up in relation, I can tell that it could indeed be a dangerous mental illness. I will read further...
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Yes! We helped them keep up appearances and promote the side that they want people to see. And as soon as they have no use for us, they throw us in the garbage, much like a broken toaster. They really view other people as mere objects. People like JF truly hide behind a mask. I hope you realize their are so many people that can emphathize and understand exactly what you are going through.
I am going to research Julia Redd. I wonder what makes some mothers only be able to take, and others on the other side of the spectrum? environment? heredity? Mix? There is some history in our family tree of women who simply abandon their responsibilities as mothers and take off... even allowing their children to be abused and not taking the child's side. Do you think someone from an apparently normal family could become a mother like we've described because of something genetic???
I was reading about Julia Redd, and all I can say is "only in Utah". One of my sisters told me through this that she thought I was being influenced by satan because of my questions, another one wrote to me and said that if I didn't change my ways I wouldn't be able to be in the "same degree of glory" with the rest of the family. JF is a temple worker, and hides behind that mask. The FBI agent that I liked the most told me that if anyone comes in his office talking about God too much, his radar goes up immediately. It is truly just another place to hide behind deviant acts- (and get some free welfare to boot if you're in the main utah church )
)
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I was reading about Julia Redd, and all I can say is "only in Utah". One of my sisters told me through this that she thought I was being influenced by satan because of my questions, another one wrote to me and said that if I didn't change my ways I wouldn't be able to be in the "same degree of glory" with the rest of the family. JF is a temple worker, and hides behind that mask. The FBI agent that I liked the most told me that if anyone comes in his office talking about God too much, his radar goes up immediately. It is truly just another place to hide behind deviant acts- (and get some free welfare to boot if you're in the main utah church
I can't argue with a single thing you said. lol. Only in Utah is right!
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IDK, the experts argue both sides of the issue of nature vs. nurture. This reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask. How far back does JH's supposed criminal activity go? Was your dad the first? Do you have any idea what the trigger might have been for her to move from being a nuisance to dangerous?
SuziQ
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Oh, another thing I wanted to ask. In cases like your mother, there is often a history of arson. They seem to use arson as a way to solve a problem (mostly financial through insurance claims), coverup a crime (murder) and sterilize their life to start to start with a clean slate.
Do you recall any suspicious fires?
Do you recall any suspicious fires?
wow.. you are one smart lady. I can think of three fire "incidents" growing up. 1. our yard caught on fire.. no apparent reason, and I remember running outside with towels to help JF beat it out. It was quite large by the time we were all attacking it- heading to the house. Then.. shortly later, our new white cadillac with baby blue velvet soft seats caught on fire when I was in dance class! I remember that fire trucks/police etc. were involved, but I wasn't there. We moved shortly after from our new home, to a run down very old home out in the country, my parents had lost their money I guess. I know I had stocks/bonds as gifts from people in a little vault that I always looked at, and they were gone- my first experience with stolen money. Decades later, JF confided in me that she came "seriously close" to burning our next house down. She said, "you have no idea how close I came. I sat and thought about it, and thought about it, and finally decided just to walk away from it."
I would like to think that the first suspicious activity was years later when my father had such a strange exit from this world. If you line up all of my thoughts, from "everything that ever happened was because of her" to .. "nothing that ever happened was because of her" then it's a line of paranoia to delusion- and I would guess that the truth is somewhere in the middle. If I were to be completely over the top paranoid, then I remember something pretty traumatic happening when I was 5- our babysitter vanished.. and JF was irritated when I asked about her later- saying "I don't know what happeneed to her.. she died. She was just some drug addict.. " I just never understood why a drug addict was babysitting us.... anyway.
Having made the paranoid comment, then I would say that first suspicious activities were with money- starting in middle school- I remember her boss at the radio station took a chainsaw to the back door, and he was protesting that he was accused of embezzling, he said it wasn't him, he was set up- by JF. In her autobiography she makes reference to the boss that was bothering her at work, and said, "never mess with a woman" since she was accused of embezzling from a later job, it made me wonder if this man did get set up. ok.. wow.. what horrible stuff to write and think about.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6055324/email-about-second-husband-jan-2008
i can upload a few pages but it is almost 80 pages as of last July, so I couldn't do the whole thing!!! I just loaded up one example of an email that I received from JF almost 1 1/2 years ago. I copied and pasted it so all email information is not divulged.
i can upload a few pages but it is almost 80 pages as of last July, so I couldn't do the whole thing!!! I just loaded up one example of an email that I received from JF almost 1 1/2 years ago. I copied and pasted it so all email information is not divulged.