MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #10

[danni]

Was the autopsy report ever released in this case? Do we know the COD for a fact?

I have not seen an autopsy report but the indictment yesterday stated "the defendant after deliberation knowingly caused the death of Elizabeth Kay Olten by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her."

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/u...ies/Alyssa Bustamante indictment 11-18-09.pdf

this news release was also put out yesterday http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/u...e County prosecutor news release 11-18-09.pdf

THANK YOU Angel_Who_Cares for posting these links yesterday!

 

[Hopeful One]

I have not seen an autopsy report but the indictment yesterday stated "the defendant after deliberation knowingly caused the death of Elizabeth Kay Olten by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her."

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/u...ies/Alyssa Bustamante indictment 11-18-09.pdf

this news release was also put out yesterday http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/u...e County prosecutor news release 11-18-09.pdf

THANK YOU Angel_Who_Cares for posting these links yesterday!

Thanks for that. I hadn't seen the news release. She surely had to be a bloody mess coming into the house after that. I would imagine she couldn't hide that from her grandparents and that's pry why (if true) they took her to the psych hospital that night.

 

[danni]

A guy who testified at the adult certification hearing (name of Cook, I think?) in regard to the Juvinile System's report on Alyssa, and it's ability to handle her, if convicted as a juvinile, said that MO currently does not have any facilities that are capable of housing a violent female violator. He used the term "hardware equipped", and said they "could" take her if they had to, but would have to rely on extra personell, which I assumed to mean round-the-clock guards. He said, when pressed, that they could "rebuild a facility" to house her. So more tax-payer money.

What does MO currently do with violent female juviniles? You can't tell me that with cities like St Louis and Kansas City in this state, that we don't have ANY violent females. Where are they kept now???

I'm glad they decided to try her as an adult, and the answers to those questions were part of the reason for that decision, but really, what DO they do with violent juvi girls? :waitasec:

So with that being said where is she going until she is 18? Is she going straight to Chillicothe or Vandalia? I'm lost!

 

[bigflaw]

The blood really depends on whether the cutting took place before or after Elizabeth was deceased. If the strangulation stopped the heart, and the cutting was postmortem, there would be no blood pressure, so no ejection of blood.

I would think also that had she been blood covered, dogs at the scene would surely have tracked the blood that she must have tracked back to the house.

So my thought is either she changed, or Elizabeth was already gone.

 

[Bibliophile]

Some of what we already know, but a bit more info -

"David Cook, a Cole County juvenile officer, testified yesterday that, after reading notes and analysis by Bustamante’s therapists, he is not much closer to figuring out a motive for the alleged crime. “There may not be a definite diagnosis,” he said yesterday in the juvenile hearing. “It may just be something the individual wanted to do. I don’t know that there will ever necessarily be an answer.”

​

More here - http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/nov/19/teenager-indicted-in-slaying-of-9-year-old-girl/

 

[W8nC]

So with that being said where is she going until she is 18? Is she going straight to Chillicothe or Vandalia? I'm lost!

My understanding was she'd sit in some county jail until the trial is over, then go to whatever adult facility they choose at that time. I'm not at all familiar with what prisons there are in this state now. When I lived here before, they were still keeping women in that ratty old building in the bottoms near Cedar City....except when it was flooded, that is.

 

[Elley Mae]

this is what I keep thinking about,http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/09/four_found_dead_at_longwood_un.php then it was said that she at sometime had went to a concert without the Gparents knowledge and that made me think of this, http://1stnews.org/697/strictly-for-the-wicked-festival/ this concert was Sept 12, 2009 wonder if this is the concert she went to.

 

[Raebie]

Looks like her attorney is trying to get her hospitalized. Much more sympathetic to a jury I would imagine.

11/19/2009 Docket Entry: Entry of Appearance Filed

Docket Entry: Motion Filed
Text: Motion for Immediate Hospitalization and Treatment Pursuant to Section 552.050 RSMo.
Filing Party: KING , JAN

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

 

[tgrlaw]

A guy who testified at the adult certification hearing (name of Cook, I think?) in regard to the Juvinile System's report on Alyssa, and it's ability to handle her, if convicted as a juvinile, said that MO currently does not have any facilities that are capable of housing a violent female violator. He used the term "hardware equipped", and said they "could" take her if they had to, but would have to rely on extra personell, which I assumed to mean round-the-clock guards. He said, when pressed, that they could "rebuild a facility" to house her. So more tax-payer money.

What does MO currently do with violent female juviniles? You can't tell me that with cities like St Louis and Kansas City in this state, that we don't have ANY violent females. Where are they kept now???

I'm glad they decided to try her as an adult, and the answers to those questions were part of the reason for that decision, but really, what DO they do with violent juvi girls? :waitasec:

Well as best I can recall, Alyssa may be the first of her kind. I been here for the last 38 years, and I cannot recall another 1st degree murder, or any murder case for that matter, involving a female under 16. I guess they cannot ship them elsewhere, to other states, or private facilities either. Maybe there is a niche not being filed, teen girl supermax detention centers.

 

[danni]

My understanding was she'd sit in some county jail until the trial is over, then go to whatever adult facility they choose at that time. I'm not at all familiar with what prisons there are in this state now. When I lived here before, they were still keeping women in that ratty old building in the bottoms near Cedar City....except when it was flooded, that is.

Well they now have Chillicothe Correctional Center and Women's Eastern Reception, Diagnostic and Correctional Center which is in Vandalia.

While I was looking for some info I ran across this.
BBM
"The Women’s Eastern Reception, Diagnostic and Correctional Center (WERDCC) in Vandalia received its first inmates in January 1998. This facility confines 2,076 minimum to maximum (C-1 to C-5) female inmates and certified juveniles."
http://www.doc.mo.gov/division/adult/werdcc.htm

 

[tgrlaw]

My understanding was she'd sit in some county jail until the trial is over, then go to whatever adult facility they choose at that time. I'm not at all familiar with what prisons there are in this state now. When I lived here before, they were still keeping women in that ratty old building in the bottoms near Cedar City....except when it was flooded, that is.

Cedar City is long abandoned. IF convicted she could be put in the Juvenile system until 18, the whole Dual Jurisdiction thing, and the sent to a prison.

 

[danni]

Looks like her attorney is trying to get her hospitalized. Much more sympathetic to a jury I would imagine.

11/19/2009 Docket Entry: Entry of Appearance Filed

Docket Entry: Motion Filed
Text: Motion for Immediate Hospitalization and Treatment Pursuant to Section 552.050 RSMo.
Filing Party: KING , JAN

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

Kinda funny that there is a need for this AFTER the adult cert. hearing. You would think that if she was in need of hospitalization she would have needed it then and not just NOW.

This is DEFINITELY a plea for sympathy from the attorney!

 

[JennyMominRI]

Well as best I can recall, Alyssa may be the first of her kind. I been here for the last 38 years, and I cannot recall another 1st degree murder, or any murder case for that matter, involving a female under 16. .

This was in 1968. In The UK. A bit earlier than you mention. Charges ended up dropped to manslaughter, I think because of her age.
Mary Bell was 9 years old when she killed 2 little boys

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/bell/index_1.html

 

[Femonan]

this is what I keep thinking about,http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/09/four_found_dead_at_longwood_un.php then it was said that she at sometime had went to a concert without the Gparents knowledge and that made me think of this, http://1stnews.org/697/strictly-for-the-wicked-festival/ this concert was Sept 12, 2009 wonder if this is the concert she went to.

I'm speechless uke:

I was aware of horrorcorerap or whatever but this goes beyond anything I could ever imagine :scream:

 

[Csquare]

So with that being said where is she going until she is 18? Is she going straight to Chillicothe or Vandalia? I'm lost!

She can go to one of the big girl prisons at 17. We had a 17 year old at the prison I worked at. Looked like a little boy.

 

[Csquare]

I don't know if anyone has ever seen pics of the women's prison at Vandallia but it is UGLY. Each and every building there is BARN red. Red every where you look. When I toured it we were there for only a couple of hours and I was already going nuts. (Not that I need any help). Chillocothe has just opened so I am not fimiliar with it.

 

[Csquare]

Let me please state for the record here and now. IF the Cole County Prosecuter pleas bargains to allow AB to ever live outside of a prison, I will do everything in my power to make sure he is never re-elected. I have no faith in him and I worry that he will feel sorry for her and accept a plea bargin.

 

[Bibliophile]

Looks like her attorney is trying to get her hospitalized. Much more sympathetic to a jury I would imagine.

11/19/2009 Docket Entry: Entry of Appearance Filed

Docket Entry: Motion Filed
Text: Motion for Immediate Hospitalization and Treatment Pursuant to Section 552.050 RSMo.
Filing Party: KING , JAN

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

This may be a very stupid move on her attorney's part. I'm not all that familiar anymore with the facilities, but I truly can't think of many places that would be equipped to take her.

She cannot be housed in one of the special female prison facilities because she has not been convicted.

Fulton State Hospital used to have over 5000 patients/staff on site and after budget dismantling now only has beds for around 400. Medically, they can't take her due to age. The DYS Special Treatment Unit on the FSH campus used to house violent juveniles but now focuses on those with learning/cognitive/behavioral disabilities. I don't know if the one in Montgomery County accepts females or what specialized facility would accept a female awaiting trial.

DYS facilities, like those of the Dept of Corrections are for those who have been convicted.

Mid Missouri Mental Health Center can only keep a patient 30 days. Inpatient hospitals are not set up for long term care anymore because no insurance pays for it. Long term psychiatric patients who need monitoring are placed in nursing home type environments and they don't have the security to house a murder suspect.

I don't know what's all in available in St. Louis but would a judge sending her 130-150 miles away???

The only hospital I know that is equipped to house a murder suspect would be Fulton - and it is adult facility that houses psychotics. She might be considered an adult to stand trial for a murder charge, but it may be a huge problem for psychiatric services.

 

[desquire]

Let me please state for the record here and now. IF the Cole County Prosecuter pleas bargains to allow AB to ever live outside of a prison, I will do everything in my power to make sure he is never re-elected. I have no faith in him and I worry that he will feel sorry for her and accept a plea bargin.

I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way and I'd bet Richardson knows it would be career suicide to take a plea. Heck, it appears he has a confession and a bunch of physical evidence. I think the only card for King to play is an insanity defense (which, aside from getting Bustamante out of jail into a more safe/comfortable psych ward, is the reason for his hospitalization motion today). Based on what we heard yesterday of the psych evaluations, it sounds like Bustamante might have issues but is fully functional, can participate in her own defense, and is not so crazy that she could not understand the consequences and wrongfulness of heinously murdering Elizabeth. Bottom line: Richardson would have to be crazier than Bustamante to go for anything less than LWOP.

 

[danni]

this is what I keep thinking about,http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/09/four_found_dead_at_longwood_un.php then it was said that she at sometime had went to a concert without the Gparents knowledge and that made me think of this, http://1stnews.org/697/strictly-for-the-wicked-festival/ this concert was Sept 12, 2009 wonder if this is the concert she went to.

I doubt it. It looks like The Strictly For The WICKED 2009 festival was a one day event that was held in Michigan on September 12,2009. The event was held at The Modern Exchange 12219 DIX Road, Southgate, Michigan 48195.

Don't get me wrong. It COULD be but getting to Michigan (an 11 hour non stop drive) staying for an event that starts at 1:00pm and ends at 11:00pm and then returning to St. Martins Missouri when your grandparents think you are at a church function, well it wouldn't be easy to say the least!