MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #12

[bigflaw]

I know it may be more expensive in MO than it is here. I am very close to Detroit, and supply outweighs demand, so most anything is cheap here.
I don't know if there is an area close to St. Martin's that is a major drug commerce area.

Coke wouldn't do this... It's a stimulant, but after a while you lose coordination and are more likely to sit and stare at a wall than try to kill someone. WAY different than Meth! Meth is about the only drug I can see where someone on the brink would cross the line. And I'll just say I've run the gamut on the possibilities.

 

[not_my_kids]

Coke wouldn't do this... It's a stimulant, but after a while you lose coordination and are more likely to sit and stare at a wall than try to kill someone. WAY different than Meth! Meth is about the only drug I can see where someone on the brink would cross the line. And I'll just say I've run the gamut on the possibilities.

Yeah, coke likely wouldn't make her do this. But I don't think it was the drugs, whatever they were. I think she's just evil.
But I am very curious as to what she was taking.

 

[MDATCA]

Coke wouldn't do this... It's a stimulant, but after a while you lose coordination and are more likely to sit and stare at a wall than try to kill someone. WAY different than Meth! Meth is about the only drug I can see where someone on the brink would cross the line. And I'll just say I've run the gamut on the possibilities.

Is it like PCP? Back in the 80's and 90's that drug took the brunt of the blame for crimes. What about crack? I do not know much about either meth, crack or pcp. Just from watching Intervention or Dog the Bounty Hunter which isn't much. Heroine/opiods are the drugs/pills of choice in my area.

 

[W8nC]

KRCG had nothing to say about this case tonight. Mixologist, any clues about when we might see breaking news regarding the bf? I'm ready for something new to talk about.... Seems like we've been over every word, idea, theory, rumor, opinion, guess a dozen times.

Pax said earlier that cops will say anything to get you to talk. I wonder if they told Alyssa that her bf had ratted her out, so she decided to implicate him? Or vice-versa, they told him she'd put him at the scene, so he told things about her. Either way, there's no telling how much of what they said about each other would even be true.

The above is just me thinking out loud....not saying that there is anything new going on.

 

[PAXIMUS]

KRCG had nothing to say about this case tonight. Mixologist, any clues about when we might see breaking news regarding the bf? I'm ready for something new to talk about.... Seems like we've been over every word, idea, theory, rumor, opinion, guess a dozen times.

Pax said earlier that cops will say anything to get you to talk. I wonder if they told Alyssa that her bf had ratted her out, so she decided to implicate him? Or vice-versa, they told him she'd put him at the scene, so he told things about her. Either way, there's no telling how much of what they said about each other would even be true.

The above is just me thinking out loud....not saying that there is anything new going on.

Thats exactly how they operate and it wouldnt surprise me a bit if thats exactly how it unfolded. I expect we will hear something soon along those lines but thats only a guess.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Is it like PCP? Back in the 80's and 90's that drug took the brunt of the blame for crimes. What about crack? I do not know much about either meth, crack or pcp. Just from watching Intervention or Dog the Bounty Hunter which isn't much. Heroine/opiods are the drugs/pills of choice in my area.

Crack is cocaine in smoking form basically, someone who is addicted to crack would more likely just be holed up somewhere waiting for the next score, they dont tend to get really violent. Meth on the other hand you stay up for days even weeks at a time with no sleep, no food, no bathing and usually by day 3 with no sleep you are extremely amped up and beginning to get very paranoid and suspicious of everyone around you, basically nobody is your friend and you have a strong feeling that everyone is plotting against you, you start to come down and get VERY agitated and edgy and will do whatever it takes to get some more in you, at this point voilence is something that you can be triggered in to very easily and you could easily kill someone and not even think twice about it. You are feeling as if bugs are crawling under your skin and every car that drives by your house is someone watching you and about to come take you away. In short it is total madness and insanity. I have never done the crap but I have studied those who do up close and personal for a few writing projects I was involved in.

If there was any drug involved here it would have to be meth IMO, but I see no evidence of drug involvement YET.

To be completely honest the prozac she was reportedly on would be my main concern at this point as it is known and proven to cause increased homicidal and suicidal thoughts in a percentage of teenagers who are on it and according to reports she was on it.

 

[W8nC]

Crack is cocaine in smoking form basically, someone who is addicted to crack would more likely just be holed up somewhere waiting for the next score, they dont tend to get really violent. Meth on the other hand you stay up for days even weeks at a time with no sleep, no food, no bathing and usually by day 3 with no sleep you are extremely amped up and beginning to get very paranoid and suspicious of everyone around you, basically nobody is your friend and you have a strong feeling that everyone is plotting against you, you start to come down and get VERY agitated and edgy and will do whatever it takes to get some more in you, at this point voilence is something that you can be triggered in to very easily and you could easily kill someone and not even think twice about it. You are feeling as if bugs are crawling under your skin and every car that drives by your house is someone watching you and about to come take you away. In short it is total madness and insanity. I have never done the crap but I have studied those who do up close and personal for a few writing projects I was involved in.

If there was any drug involved here it would have to be meth IMO, but I see no evidence of drug involvement YET.

To be completely honest the prozac she was reportedly on would be my main concern at this point as it is known and proven to cause increased homicidal and suicidal thoughts in a percentage of teenagers who are on it and according to reports she was on it.

ILC said she was on a 3 day high. We don't believe everything ILC said. We don't know if she even used illegal drugs, or unprescribed drugs, at all. There's no evidence whatsoever that she was an addict. It would be pretty hard to be an A B student with no unexcused absences AND a meth addict. If she was using meth, it was a new thing, not an addiction.

No, I'm not convinced at all that this was a drug thing. Would a meth user spend time in the woods digging graves? Doesn't fit IMO. I can see maybe using drugs the day AFTER. I mean, she'd have to be pretty stoked/excited/agitated after what she'd (allegedly) done, so maybe needed something to make it easier to act normal.

 

[MDATCA]

I am not part of the 90% that Pax cites -- I did accidently follow a link here to a blog over there that was citing one of the posters over here not knowing that the poster over here was cited over there and when I clicked on the blog over there's cited link it took me to another blog of a poster over here --- if that makes any sense -- that's not sleuthing that's stumbling with no intent -- right?

That is how I came across it also.

 

[Csquare]

I am not part of the 90% that Pax cites -- I did accidently follow a link here to a blog over there that was citing one of the posters over here not knowing that the poster over here was cited over there and when I clicked on the blog over there's cited link it took me to another blog of a poster over here --- if that makes any sense -- that's not sleuthing that's stumbling with no intent -- right?

Can you say five times real fast standing on one leg?

 

[PAXIMUS]

ILC said she was on a 3 day high. We don't believe everything ILC said. We don't know if she even used illegal drugs, or unprescribed drugs, at all. There's no evidence whatsoever that she was an addict. It would be pretty hard to be an A B student with no unexcused absences AND a meth addict. If she was using meth, it was a new thing, not an addiction.

No, I'm not convinced at all that this was a drug thing. Would a meth user spend time in the woods digging graves? Doesn't fit IMO. I can see maybe using drugs the day AFTER. I mean, she'd have to be pretty stoked/excited/agitated after what she'd (allegedly) done, so maybe needed something to make it easier to act normal.

Truth be told in the beginning of meth usage maybe for the first 6 months or so you can really excel at whatever it is youre doing whether it be your profession, school, sport or whatever, it can increase productivity tenfold in the beginning but then slowly it takes over and all you start to think about is the next score so it consumes your thinking and everything falls apart from there but she would definitely be an A B student at the beginning of her usage, that wouldnt be out of the norm at all but again there is no evidence to suggest she was using illegal drugs and I dont want to contribute to such rumors.

If I were defending her I would be looking closely at that prozac and possibly putting prozac itself on trial.

 

[Csquare]

People have talked about AB's size and it being tough for someone her size to do this. Think about Adreniline. When adreniline gets flowing you don't know your own strength and that could help account for the size issue.

 

[Csquare]

Truth be told in the beginning of meth usage maybe for the first 6 months or so you can really excel at whatever it is youre doing whether it be your profession, school, sport or whatever, it can increase productivity tenfold in the beginning but then slowly it takes over and all you start to think about is the next score so it consumes your thinking and everything falls apart from there but she would definitely be an A B student at the beginning of her usage, that wouldnt be out of the norm at all but again there is no evidence to suggest she was using illegal drugs and I dont want to contribute to such rumors.

If I were defending her I would be looking closely at that prozac and possibly putting prozac itself on trial.[/QUOTE]

Has that ever been a succesfull defense?

 

[W8nC]

Okay, it's quite clear that many of you guys know more about drugs and their affects and their cost than I do, lol. I grew up in the 70's and experimented, like everyone else, but back then, an ounce of pot was $15-25. I take it the price has gone up, huh? Ectasy? Meth? Crack? No info in my brain on any of those.

Thanks for all the information about what drug does what, etc. It's very helpful to the discussion.

 

[Csquare]

Okay, it's quite clear that many of you guys know more about drugs and their affects and their cost than I do, lol. I grew up in the 70's and experimented, like everyone else, but back then, an ounce of pot was $15-25. I take it the price has gone up, huh? Ectasy? Meth? Crack? No info in my brain on any of those.

Thanks for all the information about what drug does what, etc. It's very helpful to the discussion.

If you google Meth and look at the ingredients you have to wonder why anyone would put that stuff in their body. It is just nasty.

 

[Csquare]

Check this out......
http://www.mappsd.org/Meth Ingredients.htm

 

[PAXIMUS]

Truth be told in the beginning of meth usage maybe for the first 6 months or so you can really excel at whatever it is youre doing whether it be your profession, school, sport or whatever, it can increase productivity tenfold in the beginning but then slowly it takes over and all you start to think about is the next score so it consumes your thinking and everything falls apart from there but she would definitely be an A B student at the beginning of her usage, that wouldnt be out of the norm at all but again there is no evidence to suggest she was using illegal drugs and I dont want to contribute to such rumors.

If I were defending her I would be looking closely at that prozac and possibly putting prozac itself on trial.[/QUOTE]

Has that ever been a succesfull defense?

Once that I am aware of, back in 2000 a man was acquitted of robbing a bank when his lawyers argued the prozac was at fault for his behavior and the jury agreed.


Christopher DeAngelo was his name I think, it has been tried 100s of other times and failed.

 

[W8nC]

:yow::yow:

Check this out......
http://www.mappsd.org/Meth Ingredients.htm

YOWSER !!!!!

:yow::yow::yow::yow::yow:

 

[vjlaw]

ILC said she was on a 3 day high. We don't believe everything ILC said. We don't know if she even used illegal drugs, or unprescribed drugs, at all. There's no evidence whatsoever that she was an addict. It would be pretty hard to be an A B student with no unexcused absences AND a meth addict. If she was using meth, it was a new thing, not an addiction.

No, I'm not convinced at all that this was a drug thing. Would a meth user spend time in the woods digging graves? Doesn't fit IMO. I can see maybe using drugs the day AFTER. I mean, she'd have to be pretty stoked/excited/agitated after what she'd (allegedly) done, so maybe needed something to make it easier to act normal.

Was it ILC who said she was on a 3-day binge? I thought he just said she was getting high on thursday when she missed school? Her friend in the interview mentioned her wanting to bring drugs to a birthday party.

 

[Csquare]

:yow::yow:

YOWSER !!!!!

:yow::yow::yow::yow::yow:

See what I mean

 

[W8nC]

Was it ILC who said she was on a 3-day binge? I thought he just said she was getting high on thursday when she missed school? Her friend in the interview mentioned her wanting to bring drugs to a birthday party.

Okay. I'm old enough that memory blips are to be expected.
But SOMEONE said it, right?? :waitasec:


I sorry.