MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #13

[droptoplesabre]

More than likely she tripped over her own words and LE proved she wasn't quite as smart as she thought she was.
If they told her that they already knew, and presenting them with the location would make it easier on her, her self preservation instinct would have taken over.
If she smiles and leads them to the body, she has a shot at insanity as a defense. If she hadn't, it would have shown she knew her actions were wrong, thus the continued concealment. They could have told her that, and she decided to save her own skin, thus the confession.
Personal opinion, supported by no facts whatsoever.

now that i think of it,,it seems unlikely, to me, that an ATTY would be with LE at her house on friday,,,before they found elizabeth.just a thaught.

 

[Csquare]

AB was interviewed by FBI on Friday morning, wasn't she? They aren't exactly wet behind the ears...

We know that Cole Co. Sheriffs Dept had received Elizabeth's cell phone records from AT&T at the time of their 10am Friday presser, so if there were a call from AB in there, that would certainly have been a point of questioning that morning. How could she have explained that away? My guess is that she was presented with this plus the diary note, perhaps was told that things would go much easier for her if she just confessed.

The representation thing has me baffled though. I think that they HAD to know they had a legitimate POI in their hands by the time of her interview! I just don't understand why the confession came so easily IF she had representation there!

I honestly hate to continue putting so much weight on ILC's legendary posts, but he did say that when all is said and done, it will come out that LE did a shoddy job from the beginning. If she didn't have representation during her confession, RP would have known about that. Place as much weight on ILC's statements as you wish, but I know that particular statement had us scratching our heads at the time. :banghead:

This is a HUGE high profile case. Between Sheriff White, MSHP, FBI and any other LE involved I am quite confident that they would make sure they didn't do anything wrong and screw this up. JMO

 

[vjlaw]

This is a HUGE high profile case. Between Sheriff White, MSHP, FBI and any other LE involved I am quite confident that they would make sure they didn't do anything wrong and screw this up. JMO

We don't know when LE realized they had a high profile case. Sheriff White wasn't doing the interview, he was in the presser. And the way I understand it Missouri law requires the guardian and juvenile officer to be present. I would think a juvenile officer would know what is going to fly in court and what wouldn't as the juvenile code is his job. They as i think I understand it work through the Division of Youth Services. I think in the end it will be what has been acceptable by Missouri judges as to whether she waived her right to lawyer. jmo

 

[LadyRider]

are ya?? :waitasec:

A Charmed One, Maybe?

 

[Csquare]

W8nc or JodiBug....Did AB's confession come up during the adult certifaction hearing?

 

[W8nC]

W8nc or JodiBug....Did AB's confession come up during the adult certifaction hearing?

Yes, there was a highway patrolman who discussed it some, but was interrupted repeatedly by Mr Valentine's objections that it was not relevant to, or within the scope of, the adult competency hearing.

I've been wracking my brain trying to recall the exact wording....he talked about the graves being dug, the location of the graves revealed, the 'I wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone' statement......

He was the quietest of the people who spoke, and I was having trouble hearing him. I'd like to defer this question to Jodibug, our official court reporter.

 

[vjlaw]

Wasn't it reported in the news the officer testified she said she wanted to know what it felt like? Sounds like a confession to me.

 

[Csquare]

Yes, there was a highway patrolman who discussed it some, but was interrupted repeatedly by Mr Valentine's objections that it was not relevant to, or within the scope of, the adult competency hearing.

I've been wracking my brain trying to recall the exact wording....he talked about the graves being dug, the location of the graves revealed, the 'I wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone' statement......

He was the quietest of the people who spoke, and I was having trouble hearing him. I'd like to defer this question to Jodibug, our official court reporter.

Thank you mam. I take it by what you said the objections were overruled?

 

[Dal Gal]

The December 8 hearing will now be a re-arraignment hearing:

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=385365

 

[Prof]

Posting the links to the two different news conferences from the day Elizabeth's body was found just to show that he states that the written evidence that led them to AB arrived after his Friday 10 am presser -- he essentially states that everything that led them to AB happened Friday

So IMO at least one part of the "insider" information that ILC provided does not appear to hold true





Here are the links to the videos:

Friday - October 23 - 10 AM News Conference Sheriff White
http://video.krcg.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=4238405&at1=News - Special Coverage&h1=10 a.m. Press Conference with the Cole County Sheriff's Department&flvUri=&partnerclipid=

Friday October 23 - 3 PM News Conference - Sheriff Whitehttp://usat.gannett.a.mms.mavenapps.net/mms/rt/1/site/gannett-usatoday-206-pub01-live/current/launch.html?maven_playerId=immersiveproduction&maven_referralObject=1305514121


As far as the FBI -- in the morning presser he states that it was not the FBI's jurisdiction, but that they had offered their resources

As far as the discussion about whether or not AB was in the presense of an attorney or not when she made her confession, I want to believe that she was

It appears that she confessed to the state police, from court testimony?
"Ultimately, she stated she wanted to know what it felt like," Missouri State Highway Patrol Sgt. David Rice testified Wednesday during a court hearing over the slaying.

 

[PAXIMUS]

We don't know when LE realized they had a high profile case. Sheriff White wasn't doing the interview, he was in the presser. And the way I understand it Missouri law requires the guardian and juvenile officer to be present. I would think a juvenile officer would know what is going to fly in court and what wouldn't as the juvenile code is his job. They as i think I understand it work through the Division of Youth Services. I think in the end it will be what has been acceptable by Missouri judges as to whether she waived her right to lawyer. jmo

Good points but a juvenile officer is not an attorney and it doesnt matter what they know they cannot give the kind of legal advice AB needed at that time. As of this morning I have still gotten no answers from anyone as to whether she had an attorney present during her confession but I will continue to look in to this as time permits. I am on deadline at work today so I will do the best I can to get us an answer, if anyone else finds out in the meantime please let us know.

As far as her waiving her right to an attorney, please note:

A minor may validly waive his or her Miranda rights. The test is whether, under all the circumstances, including age, intelligence, and education, the minor had the ability to comprehend the meaning.

This is quote for you from a lead case decided by our United States Supreme Court:

"To determine whether a suspect has knowingly and intelligently waived Miranda rights, a court must appraise the "totality of the circumstances" including the suspect's "age, experience, education, background and intelligence" and "whether he has the capacity to understand the warnings given him, the nature of his Fifth Amendment rights, and the consequences of waiving those rights" (Fare v. Michael C., 442 U.S. 707 (1979), p 725)."

I would argue that she did NOT comprehend the consequences of waiving her rights IF she did OR if GP advised her to.

 

[W8nC]

Thank you mam. I take it by what you said the objections were overruled?

Some were, some weren't.

I'm thinking, regarding the 'what it felt like' comment, the wording was tricky. I'm not sure if the question was "did she say why she did it" or "do you know why she did it".....whether the answer was "she said ...or "she told us....or stated differently.

 

[vjlaw]

Good points but a juvenile officer is not an attorney and it doesnt matter what they know they cannot give the kind of legal advice AB needed at that time. As of this morning I have still gotten no answers from anyone as to whether she had an attorney present during her confession but I will continue to look in to this as time permits. I am on deadline at work today so I will do the best I can to get us an answer, if anyone else finds out in the meantime please let us know.

As far as her waiving her right to an attorney, please note:

A minor may validly waive his or her Miranda rights. The test is whether, under all the circumstances, including age, intelligence, and education, the minor had the ability to comprehend the meaning.

This is quote for you from a lead case decided by our United States Supreme Court:

"To determine whether a suspect has knowingly and intelligently waived Miranda rights, a court must appraise the "totality of the circumstances" including the suspect's "age, experience, education, background and intelligence" and "whether he has the capacity to understand the warnings given him, the nature of his Fifth Amendment rights, and the consequences of waiving those rights" (Fare v. Michael C., 442 U.S. 707 (1979), p 725)."

From some things I have been reading, it just sounds to me the juvenile officer being present may satisfy Missouri judges that it is acceptable for a juvenile to waiver her rights. However, I know nothing about law. Missouri law requires the juvenile officer present for some reason. jmo

 

[W8nC]

It appears that she confessed to the state police, from court testimony?
"Ultimately, she stated she wanted to know what it felt like," Missouri State Highway Patrol Sgt. David Rice testified Wednesday during a court hearing over the slaying.

Well that answers that!

Thanks Prof!

SHE STATED...sounds to me like she said the words, so that would be a confession.

 

[Prof]

I do not believe that Sheriff White had any clue that this was a high profile case at 10 am Friday, or anything at all closely related to AB

IMO There was no written evidence in his hands before that presser

IMO There was no mention of any scheduled interview

In fact, the press conference in the afternoon states everything happened after the morning press conference and happened quickly

I had difficulty (as did a few others) with ILC's story on this, and on the night Elizabeth went missing

According to ILC they got the evidence on Thursday and scheduled the interview on Friday morning
Would this Sheriff miss that interview? Would this Sheriff lie in the morning press conference?

ILC had a mix of information and speculation

 

[Prof]

Well that answers that!

Thanks Prof!

SHE STATED...sounds to me like she said the words, so that would be a confession.

I did not know there was any doubt that she did confess

I don't think there is anyone here that thinks she is not guilty either

but you are welcome! - I had not seen your post, but I think we are all on the same page this morning

 

[Dal Gal]

Unless an attorney was omitted by Rice or the reporter, there was testimony as to who was present during the confession.

"Sgt. David Rice of the Missouri Highway Patrol was the chief investigator on the case, and testified that he interviewed Bustamante on Oct. 23, two days after Olten was reported missing. Bustamante, a guardian, and a juvenile officer were all present. She also led authorities to the body."

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

 

[vjlaw]

I do not believe that Sheriff White had any clue that this was a high profile case at 10 am Friday, or anything at all closely related to AB

IMO There was no written evidence in his hands before that presser

IMO There was no mention of any scheduled interview

In fact, the press conference in the afternoon states everything happened after the morning press conference and happened quickly

I had difficulty (as did a few others) with ILC's story on this, and on the night Elizabeth went missing

According to ILC they got the evidence on Thursday and scheduled the interview on Friday morning
Would this Sheriff miss that interview? Would this Sheriff lie in the morning press conference?

ILC had a mix of information and speculation

I am curious about how and when they realized this also. It was also my impression that the Friday search was mostly LE and not volunteers. So I am thinking they may have know something strange going on and that what they may find would be a crime scene. JMO

 

[PAXIMUS]

From some things I have been reading, it just sounds to me the juvenile officer being present may satisfy Missouri judges that it is acceptable for a juvenile to waiver her rights. However, I know nothing about law. Missouri law requires the juvenile officer present for some reason. jmo

MO law does not overturn Constitutional law. she has a right to an attorney and I do not see her waiving that right and if they talked her in to doing so that is a problem.

Since I dont know the facts I am only guessing here but regadless of what MO says a JO cannot advise her as to whether she needs an attorney or not.

 

[not_my_kids]

I keep reading that she was interviewed, with no mention of an attorney. There are enough legal eagles here to correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't interviewed a big step from interrogated or arrested or any of the other situations in which she would have been entitled to an attorney?
I'm trying to keep up with the legal details and the case details and failing miserably, lol.