MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #13

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MO law does not overturn Constitutional law. she has a right to an attorney and I do not see her waiving that right and if they talked her in to doing so that is a problem.

Since I dont know the facts I am only guessing here but regadless of what MO says a JO cannot advise her as to whether she needs an attorney or not.

I just understood MO juvenile code was written with Consitutional law in mind. And what they need to accept as knowingly waive her right to a lawyer. Just curious as why you think she would not understand what that means?
 
Ok, even if no attorney present, and the confession and what not is dismissed or whatever term, there is still the fact she led them to the body and there would also be other evidence that would be sufficient to use against AB, RIGHT????
 
I keep reading that she was interviewed, with no mention of an attorney. There are enough legal eagles here to correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't interviewed a big step from interrogated or arrested or any of the other situations in which she would have been entitled to an attorney?
I'm trying to keep up with the legal details and the case details and failing miserably, lol.

As long as she was allowed to leave whenever she wished they did not have to Mirandize her.
 
I am curious about how and when they realized this also. It was also my impression that the Friday search was mostly LE and not volunteers. So I am thinking they may have know something strange going on and that what they may find would be a crime scene. JMO

I was thinking early on (after the Friday stuff, like maybe the following Mon), that it was a little odd, like maybe they had more idea about what was up than they told. First, there was no Amber Alert. They blamed that on not having a description of a suspect or vehicle, or evidence that she was abducted. Okay, I could buy that. Then they kept the search really really close to her house and A's house, the last place she was known to be. Well, I guess you can't know what direction to look without a clue at the start of the trail, but then again, E's house is like INCHES from a highway overpass. That highway goes to St Louis and to KC. Yet people online were saying that, when they asked LE about posting flyers at businesses along the highway, east and west of town, they were met with a lukewarm response.

They turned down tons of people who were willing to search in the rain and in the dark. They kept the search area tight, like maybe they knew she'd be found close by. I haven't heard anything about sex offenders in the area being questioned. Wouldn't that be one of the first things LE would do with a missing 9 yr old girl?

I've heard kids at school were speculating that A might be involved as early as Thursday, but apparently with nothing to go on beyond a creepy feeling.

The press releases don't give anything away, but IMO LE had a creepy feeling, too, and before Friday afternoon.
 
Ok, even if no attorney present, and the confession and what not is dismissed or whatever term, there is still the fact she led them to the body and there would also be other evidence that would be sufficient to use against AB, RIGHT????

Besides the "written" evidence that they keep talking about, there's got to be forensic evidence to support the case. Surely!
 
I was thinking early on (after the Friday stuff, like maybe the following Mon), that it was a little odd, like maybe they had more idea about what was up than they told. First, there was no Amber Alert. They blamed that on not having a description of a suspect or vehicle, or evidence that she was abducted. Okay, I could buy that. Then they kept the search really really close to her house and A's house, the last place she was known to be. Well, I guess you can't know what direction to look without a clue at the start of the trail, but then again, E's house is like INCHES from a highway overpass. That highway goes to St Louis and to KC. Yet people online were saying that, when they asked LE about posting flyers at businesses along the highway, east and west of town, they were met with a lukewarm response.

They turned down tons of people who were willing to search in the rain and in the dark. They kept the search area tight, like maybe they knew she'd be found close by. I haven't heard anything about sex offenders in the area being questioned. Wouldn't that be one of the first things LE would do with a missing 9 yr old girl?

I've heard kids at school were speculating that A might be involved as early as Thursday, but apparently with nothing to go on beyond a creepy feeling.

The press releases don't give anything away, but IMO LE had a creepy feeling, too, and before Friday afternoon.

The paper did say that they had questioned RSO in the arean and some of them pretty heavy.
 
MO law does not overturn Constitutional law. she has a right to an attorney and I do not see her waiving that right and if they talked her in to doing so that is a problem.

Since I dont know the facts I am only guessing here but regadless of what MO says a JO cannot advise her as to whether she needs an attorney or not.

I do believe this young girl is guilty and would be a danger to society if left to wander around. However, if her Constitutional rights were violated, in any way, I would be sitting in your corner...thanks to all the criminal defense attorneys who are passionate regarding our Constitutional rights. Let's all hope her rights were not violated.
 
Besides the "written" evidence that they keep talking about, there's got to be forensic evidence to support the case. Surely!

I am very confident that enough evidence is there to convict her pretty easy. I just can't understand people that want to see are aquitated.
 
Nancy Grace covered Elizabeth's disappearance on Thursday October 22, 2009 and again the next night when her body was found.

I think authorities knew they had an unusual case with a female juvenile offender charged with first degree murder. They knew they had a very high profile case that would be under great scrutiny. No hurry needed where they might miss details, they had their POI and she wasn't going anywhere. Does anyone think the GPs wouldn't call an attorney for her while she answered questions about her role in a murder?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html
NG transcripts.
 
Well I thought about this last night..

Kurt Valentine was appointed to help Alyssa through the juvenile process.. Does that mean she'll be assigned another lawyer once she gets to the adult court?

Teen charged with murder of Elizabeth Olten

Attorney Kurt Valentine, who was appointed by the court to represent Alyssa during the juvenile process....
 
The paper did say that they had questioned RSO in the arean and some of them pretty heavy.

Okay, thanks....I missed that. Good to know they were looking into that, as well.
 
I just understood MO juvenile code was written with Consitutional law in mind. And what they need to accept as knowingly waive her right to a lawyer. Just curious as why you think she would not understand what that means?

I just personally do not believe a 15 year old, especially one on prozac and with mental problems has the mental capacity to understand the consequences of waiving the right to legal representation and speaking freely and openly to LE.

What I picture is that grandma, LE and juvenile officer told her it was ok to talk just be honest and the police will help you which IMO is about the most ignorant advice that can be offered to someone.

When it comes to a minor the general practice is you do not speak to them until a lawyer is present, period.
 
White told reporters that Elizabeth knew the suspect, who is not related. White said that physical and written evidence led investigators to question the suspect, who then led them to the location where the body was found.

Teen charged with murder of Elizabeth Olten

So this makes me wonder what the physical evidence is.. clothes? the knife? the scarf?
 
I just personally do not believe a 15 year old, especially one on prozac and with mental problems has the mental capacity to understand the consequences of waiving the right to legal representation and speaking freely and openly to LE.

What I picture is that grandma, LE and juvenile officer told her it was ok to talk just be honest and the police will help you which IMO is about the most ignorant advice that can be offered to someone.

When it comes to a minor the general practice is you do not speak to them until a lawyer is present, period.

It will be interesting to see what happens to her confession before a judge.
 
It will be interesting to see what happens to her confession before a judge.

Yes I am willing to admit I may be way off here and maybe she did have an attorney but I havent seen anything to suggest that so I am simply looking at what could happen if she didnt and IF SHE DID I would like to know why that attorney let her speak so freely. This is not indicative of competent representation IMO.
 
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