MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #8

[Tricia]

Amanda, you are so right. I do know that this is our attempt to create order from chaos, find meaning where there is none.

I must admit, I did feel a little guilty when ILC called us gossips but upon reflection, realize that is not what is going on here at all. I joined this group because I am local to the case, I did show up to help search for Elizabeth and when the awful outcome was revealed, I needed to know WHY.

I do realize that we may never know the real why but you have helped relieve some of my soul sickness by providing some insight. I fear that had I not found this forum, I would have exploded by now.

Thank you all!

Thank you impionoteach.

Let me tell you something; I am constantly fighting the notion that all we do is "gossip." Only uniformed people and people caught in lies say that.

If we really did gossip we wouldn't have such strict rules. Law Enforcement from all over the country wouldn't follow us. Family members of the missing wouldn't turn to the wonderful people on Websleuths for help.

According to Wikipedia, "Gossip is idle talk or rumour, especially about the personal or private affairs of others."

Ours is not idle talk. We sleuth, pick apart, check out, and try and get to the truth of what is going on.

We don't get "personal" for idle chat. We only get "personal" when the "personal" things deal directly with the topic at hand.

Other sites gossip. Hey, in the middle of their discussion threads about murdered children they'll take the time to post and complain about me/us. Right in the middle of a serious discussion about something as tragic as a murdered child. What makes me laugh is they bit*h about us posting about true crime. Yet, just a post before they were discussing the exact same thing.

The logic makes my head hurts.

The fact that Websleuths keeps growing shows that we are all doing something right.

Don't ever worry about being called names. Look at the source. It's always someone who has been banned from here or hates us because we won't let them join.

Like I said, we all are doing something right

Goodnight.

 

[Gray]

I'm glad the situation was somewhat resolved. I felt there was something a little off.... but I didn't necessarily think it was because he/she decided to lie completely. Anyway, WS is not about gossiping. I've learned so much since being here and have found a new motivation to involve myself in possibly helping to solve a crime should the opportunity present itself to me. That, in and of itself, is worth having the website.

Besides, I have been here long enough (though I don't post as often as I read) to see more than one UID be given their dignity and identity back so that they can be laid to rest and their families might have closure. That, too, is well worth it all.

 

[lajr56]

Our friend's MySpace is now private.

 

[Dal Gal]

Our friend's MySpace is now private.

Not surprising.

Actually, if I could take a moment to suggest to the minor children who read these posts...you may want to consider "unfriending" AB on myspace and facebook. It doesn't mean that you aren't still her friend, but obviously she can't post anything anyhow. It's just for your protection of privacy.

 

[pghbrandi]

Hi all! I am new here and I just want to say you all are wonderful! Thanks for letting me join and hopefully contribute. It is so unbelievably sad what happened to this beautiful little girl.

 

[Prof]

Honestly I think people with bad intentions will find a way to get around anything put in place to stop them.

It is my guess that most "newbies" on this site are like myself - we've been around for a long time reading every post and learning how to sleuth the info you pros are finding (my lack of sleep shows this!) and a case finally comes around that pulls us out of lurk mode... I would hope those like ILC are few and far between!

Lurk before you leap is a good practice in any forum
There's a lot to learn about forum etiquette, rules, personalities, etc

When I use online discussion forums for teaching, posts may not be deleted after a certain amount of time, or if someone has replied to the post -- (of course, I ask them to cite all sources, too I understand the occasional need to delete a post (I have not deleted a post here, yet), but to do so can cause an avalanche of misunderstanding and disruption to thread ---

As far as Tricia's post above to address ILC's accusation of "gossip"-- I went and found the "other site" and one poster who was banned here yesterday (not ILC) That site spent a good 3 pages gossiping about this site --the disgruntled poster leading the pack --
ILC's examples of gossip were not gossip -- it was his tips that lead posters to some seemingly OT topics he used in his example (I believe), as posters were trying to figure out if his statements on the perp's whereabouts were true -- (btw, most of his statements were questioned and fact checked by astute posters here)

 

[Tricia]

Hi all! I am new here and I just want to say you all are wonderful! Thanks for letting me join and hopefully contribute. It is so unbelievably sad what happened to this beautiful little girl.

Thank you pghbrandi and welcome.

If I can do anything to help you please email me at tgrif@xmission.com

 

[LadyRider]

I'm will riding today and tommorrow for a couple benefits being held for the for EO's family. It's not much, but I feel it is a good way to show support and the least I can do to help, now. Everyone have a great day, and I thank everyone for all they do on here and the knowledge of everyone. I had no idea about some of the internet sites and what is going on out in cyberworld. I must be getting old. LOL

 

[PastorJerry]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a while and figured I will finally jump on in. I am really enjoying all sections of this forum. I must say that this case has grabbed me like no other and I can't seem to get it out of my mind. I hope that the guilty party is punished to the fullest extent.
Anyway, I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments and hope to contribute in the future.

 

[MDATCA]

Thank you pghbrandi and welcome.

If I can do anything to help you please email me at tgrif@xmission.com

Thank you impionoteach.

Let me tell you something; I am constantly fighting the notion that all we do is "gossip." Only uniformed people and people caught in lies say that.

If we really did gossip we wouldn't have such strict rules. Law Enforcement from all over the country wouldn't follow us. Family members of the missing wouldn't turn to the wonderful people on Websleuths for help.

According to Wikipedia, "Gossip is idle talk or rumour, especially about the personal or private affairs of others."

Ours is not idle talk. We sleuth, pick apart, check out, and try and get to the truth of what is going on.

We don't get "personal" for idle chat. We only get "personal" when the "personal" things deal directly with the topic at hand.

Other sites gossip. Hey, in the middle of their discussion threads about murdered children they'll take the time to post and complain about me/us. Right in the middle of a serious discussion about something as tragic as a murdered child. What makes me laugh is they bit*h about us posting about true crime. Yet, just a post before they were discussing the exact same thing.

The logic makes my head hurts.

The fact that Websleuths keeps growing shows that we are all doing something right.

Don't ever worry about being called names. Look at the source. It's always someone who has been banned from here or hates us because we won't let them join.

Like I said, we all are doing something right

Goodnight.

Do you ever sleep? You were here at 1:25 am and back posting by 10:20. Assuming that you have other website things to do and threads to visit I doubt this is your last stop at night and first in the morning.

You are a super dedicated host.

 

[gliving]

I'm will riding today and tommorrow for a couple benefits being held for the for EO's family. It's not much, but I feel it is a good way to show support and the least I can do to help, now. Everyone have a great day, and I thank everyone for all they do on here and the knowledge of everyone. I had no idea about some of the internet sites and what is going on out in cyberworld. I must be getting old. LOL

That is so cool that you are riding for her benefit. Community support means so much to the family.

And it is a small world! Mr Valentine also rides with a group that does benefit rides. I don't guess he'll be riding today?

Here he posts that he had to miss a ride due to his work with Elizabeth.
http://midmoriders.com/forum/rides-events/3360-race-watch-oct-25-09-a-3.html#post37660

Post #26.

Also a link to a benefit for Elizabeth:
http://www.motorcyclemonster.com/ev...abeth-Olten-2009-11-15-Jefferson_City-MO.html

 

[mistivon]

Guys, this is kinda O/T, and I don't want to get in trouble, but I'm hoping this is seen as kinda mitigating circumstances. I, too, have an emo 14 year old that has a lot of issues. I just went to her facebook and noticed she has a friend that goes by AB.
Can anyone physically describe AB to me, or her FB picture? I really, really need to know if this is who she is friends with. I don't have her pw at the moment to log in to her account and see it.
Any help would be very much appreciated as I am really concerned.
TIA

 

[Kimster]

I'm so glad you joined us!!!

 

[bigflaw]

Guys, this is kinda O/T, and I don't want to get in trouble, but I'm hoping this is seen as kinda mitigating circumstances. I, too, have an emo 14 year old that has a lot of issues. I just went to her facebook and noticed she has a friend that goes by AB.
Can anyone physically describe AB to me, or her FB picture? I really, really need to know if this is who she is friends with. I don't have her pw at the moment to log in to her account and see it.
Any help would be very much appreciated as I am really concerned.
TIA

Just google AB (full name of course). It should be quite easy to see a picture. Or for that matter, you can google any of your child's friends and easily get info I am sure. All these kids have accounts everywhere, facebook, myspace, youtube, twitter, etc.

Good luck. Cheers!

 

[mistivon]

thank you very much to those who helped. It is NOT the same girl *big sigh of relief*
I appreciate the help

 

[cleo612]

Interesting article that may have ramifications on this case:

Supreme Court to Examine Life in Prison for Juveniles

~~~snipped

Now the Supreme Court is being asked to say that locking up juveniles and throwing away the key is cruel and unusual -- and thus, unconstitutional. Other than in death penalty cases, the justices never before have found that a penalty crossed the cruel and unusual line. They will hear arguments Monday.

~~~snipped

(much more at link)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...xamine-life-prison-juveniles/?test=latestnews

 

[bigflaw]

I agree that putting kids in jail for life IS cruel. But I don't think it's cruel to institutionalize some for life, as some mental disorders cannot be completely controlled, and the only option becomes isolation. "Back in the day", these people would not have survived due to retaliation and different thoughts on handling crimes. Think Hammurabi's code. An eye for an eye did not except older adolescents at the time, because people were considered adults at time of child-bearing age. we consider ourselves more "humane" and therefore need to provide for places to put people who are a danger to society due to no fault of their own. I am speaking generally of course. It's a two way street. If a 15 YO is a child, we can not hold them responsible as adults. We, as a society have to choose. You cannot restrict rights from an age group, but apply the same rules.

 

[Tricia]

:bow::bow::applause::applause:

I'm will riding today and tommorrow for a couple benefits being held for the for EO's family. It's not much, but I feel it is a good way to show support and the least I can do to help, now. Everyone have a great day, and I thank everyone for all they do on here and the knowledge of everyone. I had no idea about some of the internet sites and what is going on out in cyberworld. I must be getting old. LOL

WOW. You are a very cool Lady Ladyrider. I think it's wonderful what you are doing. Thank you and welcome to Websleuths.

:bow: :applause: :bow: :applause:​

 

[MDATCA]

Our friend's MySpace is now private.

Yeah that happened around 1-1:30am. I was just getting the chance to check it out then tada private. Never click back and forth if it is something you want to see again screen shot every page before you roam I didn't get a chance to look it all over or get screenshots.

 

[Tricia]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a while and figured I will finally jump on in. I am really enjoying all sections of this forum. I must say that this case has grabbed me like no other and I can't seem to get it out of my mind. I hope that the guilty party is punished to the fullest extent.
Anyway, I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments and hope to contribute in the future.

Welcome PastorJerry. We are glad to have you and all of our new members.

Don't hesitate to email if anyone has any questions. tgrif@xmission.com