MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #9

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danni said:
I am going to sound like one cruel mean and evil b!%^h but I don't care what her mental state is was or whatever. If she gets life (which I pray to God, wish on a rock, a falling star, star light star bright the first star I will see tonight anything that MIGHT work) that she gets. Personaly I don't think she DESERVES any type of meds. Who cares what her mental state is while she is locked up, WE the people of this state are providing her with three hots and a cot that she will be given for the rest of her life. Why spend the money on meds for a person who will never be let back out on the streets again.

There are MILLIONS of people that are living on the streets and can not afford the medication that they NEED for mental illness, heart issues, or CANCER these people have not commited a crime they are simply living this way because they put their health before their home. Yet "we" are willing to "cure" a 15 year old girl who KILLED an innocent little 9 year old SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO KNOW WHAT IT FELT LIKE?
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bravo danni,,well said:woohoo:
 
Jodibug said:
Just a guess... but I would assume so. I think the not guilty was due to her not being represented. Once she has obtained representation then her counsel can advise her on whether or not to change her plea.

Just a guess though.
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Thank you! I was under the impression that you can’t change your plea once it is entered. I would have thought the judge would have asked if she had representation at the arraignment. If she said no and the court was appointing one, I would have assumed they would have continued it and waited for her to enter a plea once under counsel…..


I’m new to all this and I’m learning my way sloooowly but surely!
 
LadyBug, yes she can change her plea at any time. Not guilty is just the default- if she had a lawyer there the lawyer could have asked not to enter any plea yet and set another hearing. That happened in the Sandra Cantu case for months.
 
Hi all, just sneaking off from a class I'm in the rest of the week to see what I missed this afternoon. I have a LOT of reading to do.

Thanks again, Jodibug, and thanks to your sister, too, for keeping us all informed about what went down today!
 
Prozac is one of SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) prescribed for depression. That whole class of drugs has a "black box" warning from the FDA that they can cause suicidal thoughts and children should be monitored very carefully. Zoloft is in the same class of drugs, and it HAS been used as a defense a bunch of times. IMO it shouldn't be a defense. BUT I've only seen it used in a manslaughter-type situation. Since AB dug the grave 5 days earlier, the state will 100% argue AB had 5 days to have one lucid moment and go to her grandparents and tell them she was having bad thoughts. After years of therapy she should have known to do that.

I personally was on zoloft for a short time in the past, and I stopped because it made me feel numb (emotionally). I don't think its the case in this case, but I do worry that if its given to someone who already is mentally unbalanced and/or abused, it could suppress some of the "this is a bad idea" thoughts. You are NOT supposed to drink on any of the SSRIs either, it says it twice on the bottle. I also stopped because I had one glass of wine at dinner and blacked out, didn't remember anything until the morning. Its scary.
 
tgrlaw said:
I can be changed to a guilty plea, yep.
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Had this day highlighted on my calendar and wanted to thank Jodibug and Steph for giving us the inside info. I follow a lot of cases and am so glad I finally found a place that has fellow sleuthers that actually CARE and aren't in it (media) for the "glory".

I NEVER think the "it was the meds" defense should ever stick. That would be like allowing Shaniya Davis' (so close to my heart) momster the ability to defend herself by saying the drugs were the reason for her lapse of judgment.

Prescription drugs do have side effects and I personally would never put my children on them, but so do ALL medications and they effect people differently. There are a lot of other teens who take prozac that don't kill their neighbors in cold blood. If she was on meds and "counseled" before this happened...why would the remedy be more meds and counseling. I'm no genius but I'm guessing that didn't work. How about we try something else, like making sure she never has contact with another human being for the rest of her life, so we (society) can be sure she won't be able to do this again.
 
lawlady84 said:
Prozac is one of SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) prescribed for depression. That whole class of drugs has a "black box" warning from the FDA that they can cause suicidal thoughts and children should be monitored very carefully. Zoloft is in the same class of drugs, and it HAS been used as a defense a bunch of times. IMO it shouldn't be a defense.
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A good prosecutor should be able to blow that defense to smithereens. It's been clearly demonstrated that Alyssa was receiving some of the closest monitoring one could receive outside of a psych ward.

In addition, we have heard time and time again from her friends that although she may have been slightly to moderately depressed, she was such a great and nice person.

There is also no way in Hades this girl was psychotic.

You cannot selectively hide psychosis anymore than you can selectively hide drug reactions.

This girl flew under the radar of her family, friends and mental health professionals. She's a killer - pure and simple.
 
Bibliophile said:
A good prosecutor should be able to blow that defense to smithereens. It's been clearly demonstrated that Alyssa was receiving some of the closest monitoring one could receive outside of a psych ward.

In addition, we have heard time and time again from her friends that although she may have been slightly to moderately depressed, she was such a great and nice person.

There is also no way in Hades this girl was psychotic.

You cannot selectively hide psychosis anymore than you can selectively hide drug reactions.

This girl flew under the radar of her family, friends and mental health professionals. She's a killer - pure and simple.
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And as a PS ----

Psychiatrists frequently prescribe Prozac to children as a first line drug because it has the most established and highest safety record of any of the SSRI drugs. Many SSRI drugs for adults aren't even FDA approved for children.

If Alyssa first went under psych care when she was 13, Prozac was most likely what she was prescribed. She most likely has at least a two year history with the drug.
 
UPDATED: Olten Suspect Charged With First Degree Murder
Published: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 8:24 AM
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 4:18 PM
<snipped>
Prosecutor Samantha Green fought back tears, as did Olten's family, as she pleaded for the judge to try Bustamante as an adult due both to the severity and viciousness of the crime.

Sgt. David Rice of the Missouri Highway Patrol was the chief investigator on the case, and testified that he interviewed Bustamante on October 23, two days after Olten was reported missing. Bustamante, a guardian, and a juvenile officer were all present. She also led authorities to the body.

He also testified that during the Oct. 23 interview, Bustamante said she dug two holes in the woods on October 16, and planned the murder of Olten.

Dodson said Bustamante attended school on the day Olten was murdered, and the only unexcused absence she had from school was the day after Olten's death.

Cook said Bustamante takes Prozac for depression and also received services for mood swings and self-harm. Cook said Bustamante has a history of cutting herself, but said that there were no indications she was homicidal.

Bustamante had been in care of her grandmother, Karen Brooke, since 2001, and Cook said her life at home was normal and structured. She did chores and earned an allowance, and had no abnormal confrontations with her siblings.

Alyssa Bustamante was indicted on November 18, 2009 on First Degree Murder and Armed Criminal Action in the death of Elizabeth Olten.
09516a17-80ce-0971-0161-0f77fb29bb99.jpg


Article:
http://www.komu.com/satellite/Satel...4c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Teen Murder Suspect Was Indicted, Wanted to Know 'What It Felt Like to Kill'
Twitter Page, YouTube Profile Reveal Dark Thoughts of Teen Charged With Killing 9-Year-old Elizabeth Olten
Nov. 18, 2009
<snipped>
The judge entered a "not guilty" plea on behalf of Bustamante, who sat speechless and shackled in the courtroom.

The court documents also revealed for the first time the violence of Bustamante's alleged attack on the young girl. Court papers state the Bustamante strangled Olten, slit her throat and stabbed the girl while she was dying.

"I would ask that they wait, that they listen to the facts as they come out and not judge quickly," Valentine said. "Learn about this person, learn about this child. You're dealing with a child."

Article:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/teen-murder-suspect-alyssa-bustamanta-faces-degree-murder/story?id=9117496
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Meet Alyssa Bustamante; A 15-Year-old Killer (Photos) Going To Prison?
Published: Nov 18, 2009
<snipped>
Bustamante dug two shallow graves before killing Olten. Bustamante had a record of trying to commit suicide and was on the antidepressant known as prozac.

There is now a fight on whether or not to be her in an adult jail or possibly even a mental institution.

Her lawyer is desperately fighting to keep her out of jail. It's hard to believe that is the face of a killer.

Article:
http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212268807.shtml
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alyssa Bustamante To Be Tried As An Adult At Fifteen
Published: Nov 18, 2009
<snipped>
Alyssa Bustamante also admitted to having dug two graves near her home four days prior to killing Olten. Officers stated this is a sign that juvenile officers said showed the girl's killing was premeditated.

Juvenile defense attorney Kurt Valentine argued that adult prison would be a death sentence for Bustamante. He stated that Alyssa would either kill herself or be killed by others if she were placed with adults in a jail cell, either while awaiting trial or in a prison if convicted.

"We are throwing away the child and we are signing a death sentence for Alyssa. She is not going to survive her time in the Cole County jail."

Article:
http://www.huliq.com/3257/88899/alyssa-bustamante-be-tried-adult-fifteen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alyssa Bustamante
Welcome to our wikizine about Alyssa Bustamante
Alyssa Bustamante was arrested and charged with the murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten in October, 2009 at the age of 15. Police have said that Alyssa Bustamante told them she killed the girl because she wanted to know what it felt like.

AB's Home Videos 3 total:
http://www.zimbio.com/Alyssa+Bustamante/video

Articles:
http://www.zimbio.com/Alyssa+Bustamante/articles

:angel:
 
To be clear, I'm not saying Prozac had ANY role in this crime. I am just pointing out that when a court is forced to evaluate the mental state of a child, it has to take a look at what type of medication he or she was on. And I don't think it's fair to compare forced medication with illegal drug use- adults abuse drugs or alcohol of their own free will; a child has little choice if his or her parent decides to dope him up.
 
Dal Gal said:
Looks NOTHING like her. They don't want her stabbing herself with an eyeliner pencil, after all.
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HAHA I wouldn't doubt it. They cut her fingernails for her so she couldn't "cut herself" in a (sorry azz) attempt to commit suicide!

WOW I don't even know what to say about that photo!
 
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