MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #9

[jnTexas]

Why am I seeing this as a potential line of defense? Blame it on the meds...

I'm sure hoping not. If they do use that, and this girl is found mentally ill. I hope Elizabeth's family sues the prozac company, and anyone invovled in her in home therapy. JMO

 

[milliac]

Is Prozac the drug that causes homicidal & suicidal thoughts in teens?

I have a feeling this girl will never see the inside of a prison, but most likely a mental institution.

I am not sure about Prozak, but I am getting ready to quit smoking and picked up my Zyban (Wellbutrin), and it talks a lot about homicidal and suicidal thoughts in teens using this drug.

 

[MsWinter]

Somewhere way back, I remember reading that he called police (chief? sergeant? Someone he knew) himself and told him what he was going to do. That person in LE then went to check on him, but didn't get there in time. There was a shotgun involved if I remember right.

I can't remember where I saw this, but I read a rumor that Currie called the sheriff (his friend) and asked him to take care of his dog for him. The sheriff said sure and asked where he was going, and then Currie hung up.

 

[danni]

This link does not work for me

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/10/15-year-old_girl_charged_with.php

 

[Emeralgem]

Why am I seeing this as a potential line of defense? Blame it on the meds...

I, for one, am not blaming it on the meds but do know that some meds used to treat depression have proven to do more damage than just dealing with depression.
From the my space pictures that I have seen she seems to have some bi-polar issues going on...Chemical imbalance in the brain, if not treated properly, can be disastrous..

 

[Angel Who Cares]

Not-guilty plea for 15-year-old in Mo. slaying of 9-year-old
Wednesday, November 18, 2009
<snipped>
A judge has entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of a 15-year-old-girl charged as an adult in the strangulation and stabbing death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante is charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action and could face life in prison without parole if convicted.

She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

Article:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/na...aying_of_9-year-old/srvc=home&position=recent

:yes: Justice For Elizabeth! :yes:

:rose: Rest In Peace Elizabeth! :rose:

:angel:

 

[Elley Mae]

I, for one, am not blaming it on the meds but do know that some meds used to treat depression have proven to do more damage than just dealing with depression.
From the my space pictures that I have seen she seems to have some bi-polar issues going on...Chemical imbalance in the brain, if not treated properly, can be disastrous..

The thing that gets me are the post by ppl that knew her, and they are feeling so deceived by her, Being described as one of them, and how betrayed they are that she would do this. I just don't know if I am going with the meds as her problem.

 

[desquire]

I'm confused now... Calling all legal eagles.... When Jodibug and I were discussing what transpired during the arraignment she said the judge asked Alyssa if she had an attorney and she responded Jan King and the judge explained to her that she was a public defender, not her attorney. It was my understanding that Alyssa would be speaking with a PD, but I did not take that to mean that one had been officially appointed as her counsel.

I suspect that you are right and the article is wrong. The judge would have informed her that if she doesn't have an attorney and can't afford one, one will be appointed for her, but it would be highly unusual for a specific PD to be appointed at the arraignment. I guess it could be possible that they had made arrangements in advance but, again, that would be highly unusual.

 

[PastorJerry]

Is Prozac the drug that causes homicidal & suicidal thoughts in teens?

I have a feeling this girl will never see the inside of a prison, but most likely a mental institution.

I think this might be the case as well. If she was so problematic that she was receiving therapy most days after school, maybe a institution is a better place for her. At KOMU.com it stated that she was treated for mood swings as well as depression, which sounds like bipolar disorder to me. Some people with bipolar disorder suffer from psychotic features as well, which may be her case. I am not saying that she is not guilty, but, I do think that she is going to need ongoing, intensive long-term care.

 

[danni]

I suspect that you are right and the article is wrong. The judge would have informed her that if she doesn't have an attorney and can't afford one, one will be appointed for her, but it would be highly unusual for a specific PD to be appointed at the arraignment. I guess it could be possible that they had made arrangements in advance but, again, that would be highly unusual.

BBM!
This WHOLE CASE is "highly unusual" so I think most of what we see and hear from his case is going to be just that highly unusual.

 

[LadyBug99]

Sorry to bother you guys but I have to ask again...

Once a not guilty plea is entered (by the judge) can it be changed to a guilty plea in hopes for a plea bargain? TIA

 

[hoppyfrog]

Dear Posters:

Even though it's now ok to post AB's name, it is NOT ok to disregard TOS, including the posting of (or posting links to) personal information about innocent parties, such as addresses, phone numbers, etc.

Thank you,

Hoppy

 

[Jodibug]

I'm confused now... Calling all legal eagles.... When Jodibug and I were discussing what transpired during the arraignment she said the judge asked Alyssa if she had an attorney and she responded Jan King and the judge explained to her that she was a public defender, not her attorney. It was my understanding that Alyssa would be speaking with a PD, but I did not take that to mean that one had been officially appointed as her counsel.

When Alyssa said that Jan King would be her attorney, the judge explained to her that Jan King was a PD that she would be meeting with later, but that what she (Judge Joyce) was needing to know was if Alyssa had the means to hire a private attorney.

Alyssa answered "no".

So I don't think that Jan King was officially appointed as of 1pm, but that it was presumed that is where she would be getting her defense.

 

[Jodibug]

Sorry to bother you guys but I have to ask again...

Once a not guilty plea is entered (by the judge) can it be changed to a guilty plea in hopes for a plea bargain? TIA

Just a guess... but I would assume so. I think the not guilty was due to her not being represented. Once she has obtained representation then her counsel can advise her on whether or not to change her plea.

Just a guess though.

 

[bigflaw]

BBM
If she doesn't qualify for a PD and the GP REFUSE to pay for her an attorney then what?

I am not sure about Prozak, but I am getting ready to quit smoking and picked up my Zyban (Wellbutrin), and it talks a lot about homicidal and suicidal thoughts in teens using this drug.

The suicidal and homicidal tendencies are likely a result of the change in mood caused by the regulation of the serotonin, but IMO already existing as a "fantasy" prior to taking the medication. I know plenty of people who are taking similar medications and have never considered hurting themselves or other people, especially other people.

Depressed people typically aren't aggressive. There is plain psychosis in this case. This girl is sick. While fully knowing killing was wrong, she did it anyway to satisfy her curiosity. That makes here a sociopath. Drugs or no drugs.

 

[desquire]

Sorry to bother you guys but I have to ask again...

Once a not guilty plea is entered (by the judge) can it be changed to a guilty plea in hopes for a plea bargain? TIA

Yes. The court can always allow you to change a plea right up to the point a verdict is entered.

 

[droptoplesabre]

I suspect that you are right and the article is wrong. The judge would have informed her that if she doesn't have an attorney and can't afford one, one will be appointed for her, but it would be highly unusual for a specific PD to be appointed at the arraignment. I guess it could be possible that they had made arrangements in advance but, again, that would be highly unusual.

i thot i read somewhere above "she mentioned a certain PB" could it be her family knows this PB? just a thot,and an opinion

 

[raisincharlie]

The thing that gets me are the post by ppl that knew her, and they are feeling so deceived by her, Being described as one of them, and how betrayed they are that she would do this. I just don't know if I am going with the meds as her problem.

These words from those that knew her are far more powerful than Valentine's. They knew her - that speaks extremely loud, and clear.

 

[danni]

I am going to sound like one cruel mean and evil b!%^h but I don't care what her mental state is was or whatever. If she gets life (which I pray to God, wish on a rock, a falling star, star light star bright the first star I will see tonight anything that MIGHT work) that she gets. Personaly I don't think she DESERVES any type of meds. Who cares what her mental state is while she is locked up, WE the people of this state are providing her with three hots and a cot that she will be given for the rest of her life. Why spend the money on meds for a person who will never be let back out on the streets again.

There are MILLIONS of people that are living on the streets and can not afford the medication that they NEED for mental illness, heart issues, or CANCER these people have not commited a crime they are simply living this way because they put their health before their home. Yet "we" are willing to "cure" a 15 year old girl who KILLED an innocent little 9 year old SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO KNOW WHAT IT FELT LIKE?

 

[Salem]

I'm sure hoping not. If they do use that, and this girl is found mentally ill. I hope Elizabeth's family sues the prozac company, and anyone invovled in her in home therapy. JMO

This is MY personal opinion - I'm not a dr or a psych - BUT I don't think blaming it on the drugs is going to work here. She dug the grave days before she killed sweet Elizabeth. That does NOT compute to a psychotic break or medication interactions, I don't think. It seems generally when you have severe med reactions you do NOT plan and think out your crime - you act quickly, agressively, and "on-the-spot" because you can't hold it in anymore. You don't plan days ahead of time.

I could be wrong - but where have we ever seen someone who premeditated a murder get off for drug reaction? My opinion is also that if she could plan this out for DAYS - she could have asked for help. She had a grandmother, brothers, teachers, apparently a therapist that came by almost daily. She had opportunity to stop herself and she CHOSE not too.

I'm not cutting her any slack at all. I think this poor child is broken and I don't think she can be fixed. It is all just too scary to contemplate.



Salem