MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #2

[sunshineray]

I see no sliding door there at all.

It was in a different pic,recently posted, where the table is, it's this room.

 

[arielilane]

Not sure if these were already posted, but here goes.


This is video I obtained of the moment investigators arrived at Jordan Willis' home. It's about 10 minutes after Clayton McGeeney's fiancée discovered the three men's bodies and called 911. You can see Jordan cuffed and detained on his front stoop while police ask him questions. I'm told he was uncuffed, put into a police car and driven away. Later, police could be seen going room to room with flashlights searching for more evidence.

Ashton Brady, who took the video, can be heard trying to piece together what he was viewing. He told me that he mistook it to be a case of domestic violence at the time, which explains his commentary in the video. It wasn't until after he fell asleep and read the news reports the next morning that he realized what he actually witnessed that night.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752195371260879136

Here is my full interview with Ashton Brady. He breaks down what he witnessed that night, what he knows about Jordan Willis and how his community is processing this tragedy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752197196538101902

 

[sunshineray]

That's not the kitchen, it's a sun room that was staged as a secondary eating area in the real estate photos. It is adjacent to the kitchen. I suppose some realtors would advertise it as a breakfast nook even though you have to step down to enter it. I think it might be a more recent addition to the original home since the house next door seems to be a mirror image but without the bump out.

The dining room is between the sun room and the formal living room. The two windows you see in the second image are of the family room that has a fireplace at the far end where the driveway is. When you enter through the front door the kitchen is right in front of you along the back wall. It is not a large kitchen. There is only one window in the kitchen and it's over the sink. You have to exit the kitchen to get into the family room but there is a pass through in the kitchen. It's the most dangerous pass-through I've ever seen since it is directly over the stove. The living room is to your immediate left when you come through the front door. The dining room is immediately adjacent to the living room sandwiched between that and the sunroom. To your right is the stairs to the upper level, as well as a staircase leading to the basement. To enter the back yard you have to go through the family room or the sliding glass doors in the sun room.

I don't know how tall JW is but sightlines may not provide the best view of the back yard when standing in front of the sink. You'd have to lean over quite a bit and even that wouldn't give you a clear expansive view of the back yard closer to the house. With no dogs in the house he probably didn't open the back door. Even with his friends' cars still in the street he may have figured they took alternate ways home.

Oh my gosh, what is everyone so contrary about?
There have been numerous pictures posted. I BELIEVE it's been shown the room with the sliding glass door is the same room with the kitchen-looking table in the other pic. There is no room IN the kitchen for a table so I BELIEVE that's where it was, one pic shows it. YES there does seem to be blinds on that sliding glass door, in that room, in yet another pic from the outside so the view MAY have been compromised.

I also BELIEVE though that the kitchen window looks right out, within a small amount of feet, on the area shown in yet another pic of the flagstone that the chair is that David Harrington was found sitting dead. I BELIEVE a person coming into either room would be able to see a person in that chair. YES the doggie door is up for grabs to debate about as it looks different in the different pics, it's there and then it's not.

<modsnip - rude>

 

[sunshineray]

Dont see that doggie door from the inside, it’s not in the kitchen.

Yes I know

 

[sunshineray]

It's standard height, of the sink. Do to the width of the counter, it prevents seeing the patio. I was able to enlarge and the grass is the first thing in window view.
I just check my similar view, same size window. My heat pump in directly under my window and I can't see it.
Moo

Sorry I disagree, the chair would have been in view, IMO and it's just my opinion

 

[MyBelle]

The interior shot above suggests saying the sliding door is in the "kitchen area" is stretching it. It looks like to me it's in a step-down dining room, an area a person living alone very well might not enter every day. The higher single window that's at a right angle to the sliding door likely is in the kitchen, perhaps over the sink. I'm not sure how much of the porch would be visible through that window given its height even without blinds (looks like the bottom of the window is a full foot above the top of the chairs), especially if the person simply walked into the room and wasn't standing close to the window & peering out.
MOO

The step-down area plus covered patio looks like it was added on by previous owners during a kitchen remodel to provide a "sunroom" casual area to eat, enjoy the outdoor views from 3 angles and grill under the covered patio area during the winter. The young man who lives there now may like to cook and host dinners and that's why he chose that particular house.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

The step-down area plus covered patio looks like it was added on by previous owners during a kitchen remodel to provide a "sunroom" casual area to eat, enjoy the outdoor views from 3 angles and grill under the covered patio area during the winter. The young man who lives there now may like to cook and host dinners and that's why he chose that particular house.

JMO

The house is really nicely set up, very bright and lots of room.

 

[Sundog]

On January 16, a week after these Kansas City men were found, the bodies of four men were found at a Palmdale CA home - TWO OF THEM IN THE BACKYARD .

Jeffrey Roth, 34, Ronald Roth, 62, Thomas Ramsey, 35, and Paul Harris, 37.

As I've said a million times in my life and I will say a million more, I don't know why some news stories are practically ignored while others catch fire.

I know a little about Websleuths policies, but not enough to know why this site hasn't made a post about the case. Hope it's OK I post this link since it kinda sorta relates?

Four men found dead at Palmdale home ID'd

PALMDALE - Authorities have identified the four men who were found dead at a Palmdale home on Jan. 16.They were Jeffrey Roth, 34, Ronald Roth, 62, Thomas Ramsey, 35, and Paul Harris, 37, according to the Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner.The men were discovered around 4:30 p.

theavtimes.com

WS members create threads for cases, so feel free to create a thread. Others who are interested in the case will then find it and post their thoughts and links, etc.

 

[al66pine]

"Responsible"

....They all 3 had girlfriends waiting at home for them, expecting them home, and all 3 men's families have repeated time and time again they were responsible men.

snipped for focus @iusedtofloat

For these GFs and/or family members saying this ^, what is their frame of reference for being responsible? IDK but the concept of responsibility varies widely.

Maintaining radio silence (w GF'S & families) while staying away from home for a couple of days, unannounced in advance?

Some GF's and/or family members would still say he's responsible, even if that happened multiple times. Some would not.
Just speaking generally and not about the deceased or these specific families.
imo

 

[Neopetsprincess]

It also has something to do with being male. I can't tell you how many threads there are on WS where the four main ingredients of a dead or missing male are: alcohol, drugs, weather, water. That's a toxic mix. Always.

Yeah, well women generally engage in less risky behavior so that makes sense.

 

[al66pine]

dbm

 

[Mirabel091]

YES the doggie door is up for grabs to debate about as it looks different in the different pics, it's there and then it's not.

The doggy door visible on exterior photos may have been installed specifically for/by JW, as he had dogs. If so the interior photos on rental sites may have been taken some time before he moved in.

 

[neesaki]

The house is really nicely set up, very bright and lots of room.

It is, with lots of windows and glass doors , looking out onto the big back yard. I really like the big window over the kitchen sink. It’s a nice feature, especially for keeping an eye on your dogs, or children if you had them.
We have a lot of windows across the back of our house, but not a window over the sink like that. I kind of miss having that feature.

 

[sunshineray]

On January 16, a week after these Kansas City men were found, the bodies of four men were found at a Palmdale CA home - TWO OF THEM IN THE BACKYARD .

Jeffrey Roth, 34, Ronald Roth, 62, Thomas Ramsey, 35, and Paul Harris, 37.

As I've said a million times in my life and I will say a million more, I don't know why some news stories are practically ignored while others catch fire.

I know a little about Websleuths policies, but not enough to know why this site hasn't made a post about the case. Hope it's OK I post this link since it kinda sorta relates?

Four men found dead at Palmdale home ID'd

PALMDALE - Authorities have identified the four men who were found dead at a Palmdale home on Jan. 16.They were Jeffrey Roth, 34, Ronald Roth, 62, Thomas Ramsey, 35, and Paul Harris, 37, according to the Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner.The men were discovered around 4:30 p.

theavtimes.com

How tragic, I think it's probably going to be a simular situation. Ingesting something they thought was one thing and it being a deadly other </3

 

[Waffle]

The "sitting in the chair" detail makes me even more firmly in the camp of accidental OD that JW knew nothing about, either because he too was sickened by the drugs but had the good fortune to be rendered unconscious inside or because he simply didn't partake. In fact, Kate Quigley, who lost three friends to fentanyl-laced cocaine and herself just barely survived, said this about her friend who OD'd: "Quigley said she attempted to speak to Colangeli, who 'didn’t look dead.' 'I started to say, "Hey, Rico, Rico,"' she recalled. 'I just thought he fell asleep, he even still had the guitar – he was holding a guitar in his hands. It never crossed my mind he was dead.'" (Read the full article here: Kate Quigley recalls witnessing three friends dying from ‘horrific’ fentanyl overdose)

If JW was a brilliant mastermind/mad scientist who murdered his friends for no reason (or as part of some Deep State conspiracy, maybe in coordination with Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce or whatever other crazy nonsense people are saying online), it seems like he could do better at hiding their bodies than ... leaving them in his backyard.

And if they died inside from an OD and he panicked and dragged them outside (which I'm at least willing to entertain as a theory), why on earth would he stage one in a chair? It seems like he would've put them in the shed or otherwise tried to conceal them. Or even just drag them out and leave them there. But NOT prop the dead weight of a full-grown man in a lawn chair. That boggles belief.

This case is terribly sad, and as someone who has lost far too many loved ones to addiction, through both actual ODs and terrible decisions made under the influence, I absolutely understand the families' shared shock and grief. But lashing out at JW with wild and unfounded accusations is not the path to peace and acceptance. It's spreading and prolonging the anguish, and it could have legal consequences if they continue to defame his character.

If it wasn't so tragic some of these theories would be completely laughable. Instead, I think it has the potential to fuel the flames of angry family members, who are desperate for answers and making accusations that could ruin a mans life. Sad all round IMO

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Dont see that doggie door from the inside, it’s not in the kitchen.

It looked to me like the dog door might be in the screen door, not the solid door.

 

[al66pine]

*****************Post of the Day************

.....
On a lighter note, I may be interested in the RoboCop version of the blocker. Maybe it has a feature to go beat the spam caller over the head until they quit calling.

If so, sign me up

 

[Sundog]

It's interesting to see just how much snow there was on the ground at that time. Also, the two cars that belonged to the deceased appear to be parked in different spots on the street, one on one side of the street, the other vehicle on the other side of the street, and both covered in snow.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Oh my gosh, what is everyone so contrary about?
There have been numerous pictures posted. I BELIEVE it's been shown the room with the sliding glass door is the same room with the kitchen-looking table in the other pic. There is no room IN the kitchen for a table so I BELIEVE that's where it was, one pic shows it. YES there does seem to be blinds on that sliding glass door, in that room, in yet another pic from the outside so the view MAY have been compromised.

I also BELIEVE though that the kitchen window looks right out, within a small amount of feet, on the area shown in yet another pic of the flagstone that the chair is that David Harrington was found sitting dead. I BELIEVE a person coming into either room would be able to see a person in that chair. YES the doggie door is up for grabs to debate about as it looks different in the different pics, it's there and then it's not.

<modsnip - rude>

The police do not suspect JW of any foul play. So I'm wondering why this is even a debate? He didn't see them through any window, big or small, sliding or fixed. IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

No method of determining estimated time of death is perfect, but a frozen body actually permits use of several different well known methods, IMO. Currently, I'd say that no forensic pathologist would believe it impossible to get a estimated time of death from a frozen body.

Basically, everything slows down - but the various stages of decomp still occur. There are numerous articles and charts (and actual experts to give opinion) on what this means for a particular context (such as outdoors, at a particular set of temperatures, with or without any water involved - and algorithms to use when various combinations of events occur). The body farm at Knoxville was the first to release preliminary data on this, I believe (in 1990) and in the 34 years since then, various experiments and data have been added. Some nations have a much larger body of literature on the topic (Canada, Russia are two of them). I don't want to be gross (and I'm not going to link a textbook here on the MT, because it definitely would need spoilers and I am not sure it's appropriate). But here's an abstract of such research:

Time Since Death and Decomposition of the Human Body: Variables and Observations in Case and Experimental Field Studies

Abstract. Much of the difficulty in determining the time since death stems from the lack of systematic observation and research on the decomposition rate of the human body. Continuing studies conducted at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, provide useful information on the impact of carrion...

asmedigitalcollection.asme.org

Here is a link to a particular freezing experiment (from this type of experiment, there is a whole staging system that invokes temperature as a variable). The various stages of decomp (especially the early part) are graphic but well known - they just occur slowly at cold temperatures.

More recently, though, several new methods of figuring out time of death for bodies in general have been developed - and some work very well with frozen, then thawed, bodies. They involve enzymatic action and particular proteins found in the body after death. And then there's the issue of Cause of Death (I put an article below). Hypothermia is difficult to show, and I don't know what the state of forensic tomography is in Kansas City, but there are methods to show (from brain tomography) that death was from cold. There are well known studies of how long a human can be outside in X temperature of weather - on the night of these deaths, 1-3 hours was probably the limit. With alcohol on board, the time would be shorter. If unimpaired, after an hour without exercise and very warm clothing, a person would be shivering uncontrollable - an unimpaired person knows instinctively to seek warmth.

I should also mention that other crimes have added to understanding and to the database about cold conditions and death (such as studies of victims whose death times are known through other methods - and who were put into freezers by the person or persons who killed them - in the hope, apparently, of obscuring estimated time of death).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2212478016300284

Spoiler: Not for the squeamish; but for those who like forensic pathology

There is also microscopic and lab evidence to be had from the various organs in the body. The extremities freeze first and the internal organs freeze last. Pathologists know which organs are likely to freeze first dependent on the position of the body. Each of those organs will have started the death process before freezing, creating the usual enzymes of death and decomp; by comparing the organs to each other, the time it took for the body to freeze can be determined; by studying those proteins and enzymes, the length of time the body was frozen can be subtracted from the approximate time of last life - which is often determined through other means, such as eyewitnesses or digital trail; there are also the processes of bloating and marbling - as the various fluids and tissues of the body slowly break down and mingle or expand; these will be sharply curtailed in the frozen body - but if the overall time that the body has been frozen is known, can still be used as indicators of time of death; do not go look these things up on the forensic internet unless you're okay with graphic autopsy pictures. A key method - one that NIH endorses using - involves potassium levels inside the eyeballs. A new model for the estimation of time of death from vitreous potassium levels corrected for age and temperature - PubMed < that article is from 2015, and is part of a research call for better staging of death vs temperature via use of vitreous potassium, which gives very good to excellent results. IOW, by carefully preserving organs from throughout the body and studying them, and using forensic tomography as required, a frozen body can give very good forensic evidence

.

I have no way of knowing what the state of this type of labwork is in MO, but the reference charts and data are of course widely available.