MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #2

[Elley Mae]

That's a great one. And it's part of the course material in criminology (on eyewitness behavior) in at least one university curriculum - very good share!

It's also interesting to read the various responses people gave for why they got the details wrong.

I'm still puzzling over why there's a screen off of window at JW's house in early pictures, lying on the ground. No basement windows showing.

Then, Google and real estate listing photos show more of the house - still no basement windows. There is a basement, however. Don't some basements kind of have an airwell that goes down to a possible window? That's certainly not in the front yard and after Fox4 showed the more recent (apparently snipped from drone) footage, one still cannot see a well or basement windows.

Maybe a sharp-eyed sleuther will find it and red circle it for us?

That basement walks out the back, basement here is all underground, I enter basement from inside house.

 

[Vern]

This image does show what looks like a basement egress window, but what's puzzling me is that I can't see any sign of it on the outside of the house:

View attachment 479365

I see a window well meaning that the egress window itself is below ground level with one of those aluminum wells around it to prevent leakage. One would have to egress through that window and then step up onto the lawn from the well. IM experience, I think the aluminum wells themsleves are 24" high.

 

[iamnotagolem]

There is a basement to that home. It is located below the level containing the kitchen/living room/family room. I've seen no photos of that side of the house but there has been a photo of the basement.

JMO

Thank you, that helped clear things up for me. This confused me at first because I thought it was a tri-level, then I looked again and sure enough the basement is below the living room/dining room/kitchen. It's actually a quad level. So the basement doesn't walk into the backyard, the family room with the fire place does.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I see a window well meaning that the egress window itself is below ground level with one of those aluminum wells around it to prevent leakage. One would have to egress through that window and then step up onto the lawn from the well. IM experience, I think the aluminum wells themsleves are 24" high.

Completely agree, but usually you can at least see the well where the window is located. I can't see anything. I've looked at every picture I can find and I'm seeing nothing outside the house that even resembles a basement window or a window well.

My username is proving accurate again. Très confused!

 

[iamnotagolem]

Completely agree, but usually you can at least see the well where the window is located. I can't see anything. I've looked at every picture I can find and I'm seeing nothing outside the house that even resembles a basement window or a window well.

My username is proving accurate again. Très confused!

I think it is to the left when looking at the house from the front, unfortunately I have yet to find a picture of that side of the house.

 

[10ofRods]

That basement walks out the back, basement here is all underground, I enter basement from inside house.

Yeah, I always thought a basement needed to be entirely under the house. At any rate, I don't see any front yard basement windows in any of the Kansas City house pictures, so far. I agree that one can normally see the well (esp when it snows - similar to the Ramsey house).

I am joining @Interested_But_Confused in their confusion.

If the entry into the basement is, for example, in the laundry room or garage, that could mean that it (like many basements) has no windows at all. But no way to know for sure.

IMO

 

[Vern]

This image does show what looks like a basement egress window, but what's puzzling me is that I can't see any sign of it on the outside of the house:

View attachment 479365

I found it. On the following link, the egress window can (barely) be seen in the 3rd photo. This room is located under the garage and the egress window is at the front of the house (street side) on the left bottom of the garage. It is below ground level and can barely be seen through the shadows the trees are casting onto the house and ground. It would be exactly to the left of of where the screen is laid against the wall in the other photos with the screen detached.

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 - MLS #2302138 | BEX Realty

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 is a 4 bed, 3 / 1 bath, single-family home in The Coves, Kansas City, Missouri and was sold on 2021-02-26.

www.bexrealty.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

When asked whether evidence of drugs, drug paraphernalia or the use of drugs were found at the home where the men died, a spokesperson for the Kansas City Police Department said, “this remains part of an ongoing investigation."

Were Drugs Involved in Mysterious Deaths of 3 Kansas City Chiefs Fans? Police Say They're Investigating

Kansas City police said an investigation is ongoing but they don't suspect foul play in deaths of David Harrington, Ricky Johnson and Clayton McGeeney.

themessenger.com

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I found it. On the following link, the egress window can (barely) be seen in the 3rd photo. This room is located under the garage and the egress window is at the front of the house (street side) on the left bottom of the garage. It is below ground level and can barely be seen through the shadows the trees are casting onto the house and ground. It would be exactly to the left of of where the screen is laid against the wall in the other photos with the screen detached.

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 - MLS #2302138 | BEX Realty

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 is a 4 bed, 3 / 1 bath, single-family home in The Coves, Kansas City, Missouri and was sold on 2021-02-26.

www.bexrealty.com

View attachment 479375

You've got better eyes than me, but I think you're right! Excellent, thank you!

Yeah, I always thought a basement needed to be entirely under the house. At any rate, I don't see any front yard basement windows in any of the Kansas City house pictures, so far. I agree that one can normally see the well (esp when it snows - similar to the Ramsey house).

I am joining @Interested_But_Confused in their confusion.

If the entry into the basement is, for example, in the laundry room or garage, that could mean that it (like many basements) has no windows at all. But no way to know for sure.

IMO

I think the stairs down to the basement are behind this small door next to the main stairs, just inside the front entrance to the house:

ETA: Wait, it can't be there. I'll have to rethink that.

 

[10ofRods]

I found it. On the following link, the egress window can (barely) be seen in the 3rd photo. This room is located under the garage and the egress window is at the front of the house (street side) on the left bottom of the garage. It is below ground level and can barely be seen through the shadows the trees are casting onto the house and ground. It would be exactly to the left of of where the screen is laid against the wall in the other photos with the screen detached.

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 - MLS #2302138 | BEX Realty

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 is a 4 bed, 3 / 1 bath, single-family home in The Coves, Kansas City, Missouri and was sold on 2021-02-26.

www.bexrealty.com

View attachment 479375

So there IS a basement; the screen that reporters said was pried off a window (early on) IS in the right place.

YAY! So it is near where that screen was found, just not visible in the other photos due to a little snow. Fantastic find, Vern.

This is consistent with the basement being under the garage.

With that established, I have some speculation. I am guessing that FindMy or a similar app showed that the last pings for at least one man's phone was in the backyard at this house. That's why it made so much sense to the girlfriend to go ahead and enter the house. She might even have watched the phone get drained of battery, going dead and indicating this house as its last place of connection.

Tiny piece of this puzzle is filling up, for me, anyway (thank you @Vern and thank you @Interested_But_Confused! And others who kept asking and trying to solve this bit of the mystery).

Meanwhile, I went on a little forensic scavenger hunt and tried to find sources on how long it actually takes for a body to freeze solid. In the typical walk-in freezer, it takes the typical body about 12 hours, more or less, to freeze solid. Walk-in freezers are often at -10F, so this was considerably warming. Let's say 14-18 hours or thereabouts for smaller persons.

The medical examiner(s) will do a lot of work to figure out how long the process took, but it appears there was plenty of time.

Really awful for the family and I can understand why they are so agitated.

IMO.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I found it. On the following link, the egress window can (barely) be seen in the 3rd photo. This room is located under the garage and the egress window is at the front of the house (street side) on the left bottom of the garage. It is below ground level and can barely be seen through the shadows the trees are casting onto the house and ground. It would be exactly to the left of of where the screen is laid against the wall in the other photos with the screen detached.

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 - MLS #2302138 | BEX Realty

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 is a 4 bed, 3 / 1 bath, single-family home in The Coves, Kansas City, Missouri and was sold on 2021-02-26.

www.bexrealty.com

View attachment 479375

As much as I want to believe that, it is very rare to have a basement under a garage just because of the massive support system in place to structurally hold vehicles. The only time I've seen it done is in huge very expensive homes.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

The basement does have really thick support beams:



I've updated my (not to scale) floor plan of the Ground Floor to include the window well. My new best guess based on the realtor photos is that the stairs down to the basement are actually in the garage.

I think the basement is under what I've labeled "laundry" and "toilet," not under the garage:

 

[MorningDove]

It is odd. But I don't know that we have a photo of the end of the house opposite the garage end.

The window screen that's off on the front could have been removed by the girlfriend in an attempt to enter. Maybe she thought she could open that window & couldn't?

The house next to it is mirror image from street and aerial view. I suspect the basement window is in same location as that house. Which would be opposite ends from each house's garage. In footage and stills certain angles do show a basement window on the duplicate/mirror image house next door. Each house has a short brick wall obscuring the view of that area. The ac units are there as well. Google street image gives you a view of the area, in between blurred areas.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

The house next to it is mirror image from street and aerial view. I suspect the basement window is in same location as that house. Which would be opposite ends from each house's garage. In footage and stills certain angles do show a basement window on the duplicate/mirror image house next door. Each house has a short brick wall obscuring the view of that area. The ac units are there as well. Google street image gives you a view of the area, in between blurred areas.

Ugh, now I'm confused again. I thought we'd found the window well at the front of the house, but now that I'm looking on Google Maps I do see something at the side where you're referring to:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[LMDlong]

One thing comment boards and social media shows us is how different we all our - and how we tend to think we're not.

In regards to this case, I can understand being sick or in a funk enough to sleep on and off for two days; to ignore calls from all but one or two people; to not look in the backyard or to see cars outside.

And, I go to my kitchen sink maybe a dozen times a day. Getting water and coffee, filling filter pitcher, grabbing a snack and rinsing a dish, etc. I also sit at a nook alone. (And it surprises me to learn that others think that doesn't happen!)

I'm constantly talking back to crime shows when someone says something like, "There were two glasses on the counter, meaning someone else was here."
("But I often grab another glass!")

Maybe I do things out of the norm, but we all do in some ways. Deductive reasoning never works for me . Lol

My husband slept over 24 hours and my daughter can do it. The require lots of sleep

 

[Vern]

The basement does have really thick support beams:

View attachment 479383View attachment 479384

I've updated my (not to scale) floor plan of the Ground Floor to include the window well. My new best guess based on the realtor photos is that the stairs down to the basement are actually in the garage.

I think the basement is under what I've labeled "laundry" and "toilet," not under the garage:View attachment 479389

That seems to make sense. I know it's not under the "entertainment" room that you've noted as that is a 'sunken' room from the rest of the house. In the photos you can see the 2 steps down into it. The door to outside from that entertainment room is at ground level based on the exterior patio photos.

That would, interestingly, put that kitchen window even higher from ground level when looking out it (2 steps above ground level) as the kitchen floor is not at ground level like the entertainment room is. So kind of like mine (I have 2 steps down to my patio proper plus 1 step down from the porch) perspective-wise.

 

[Vern]

The house next to it is mirror image from street and aerial view. I suspect the basement window is in same location as that house. Which would be opposite ends from each house's garage. In footage and stills certain angles do show a basement window on the duplicate/mirror image house next door. Each house has a short brick wall obscuring the view of that area. The ac units are there as well. Google street image gives you a view of the area, in between blurred areas.

That makes hella sense too!! And that would locate the basement stairs quite possibly under the upstairs stairs. So directly opposite of the garage door to enter the basement. Good eye!!

 

[10ofRods]

One thing comment boards and social media shows us is how different we all our - and how we tend to think we're not.

In regards to this case, I can understand being sick or in a funk enough to sleep on and off for two days; to ignore calls from all but one or two people; to not look in the backyard or to see cars outside.

And, I go to my kitchen sink maybe a dozen times a day. Getting water and coffee, filling filter pitcher, grabbing a snack and rinsing a dish, etc. I also sit at a nook alone. (And it surprises me to learn that others think that doesn't happen!)

I'm constantly talking back to crime shows when someone says something like, "There were two glasses on the counter, meaning someone else was here."
("But I often grab another glass!")

Maybe I do things out of the norm, but we all do in some ways. Deductive reasoning never works for me . Lol

No one said it doesn't happen, just that it's less likely when a person is alone. I'd say it's less likely when it's just a couple living in a house, judging from hundreds of homes I've been in. Of COURSE some single people sit at a nook. Many sit at the counter, too. When I'm home alone, I sit where I usually sit for meals (the couch). Or I eat standing up at the kitchen counter. We're all different!

<modsnip>

I feel badly for all concerned here, all of whom probably wish they could turn back time. And the three decedents would certainly wish that as well, I do not think this was in any way intentional, and it's happening a lot within their age group, as others have posted.

<modsnip: Sleuthing non POI / non suspect is not allowed>

IMO

 

[NCWatcher]

The basement does have really thick support beams:

View attachment 479383View attachment 479384

I've updated my (not to scale) floor plan of the Ground Floor to include the window well. My new best guess based on the realtor photos is that the stairs down to the basement are actually in the garage.

I think the basement is under what I've labeled "laundry" and "toilet," not under the garage:View attachment 479389

Very interesting work!
I am not very spatial but I'm having trouble picturing the orientation of the toilet room to the laundry based on the realty company pics and your drawing. Also in the attached toilet room photo I think you can see the door in the mirror. It looks like it opens in and the door by the stairs opens out (based on the hinges. Also if it opened in the side of the door seen in the toilet photo would be brown.) I think the narrow door by the stairs next to the front door could be a coat closet. Those used to be pretty common.

Tastes differ but I can't imagine designing a house with 1) the laundry on the front of the house and 2) a half bath that close to the front door. But that's just taste I guess.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

That makes hella sense too!! And that would locate the basement stairs quite possibly under the upstairs stairs. So directly opposite of the garage door to enter the basement. Good eye!!

In this image of the "entertainment" room there are two doors. I think the first door goes into the garage and the second into the toilet:



In this image of the toilet you see the entrance door reflected in the mirror:



The door leading off from the toilet goes to the laundry room:



From what I can tell the toilet is under the main stairs which are visible through the doorway in this image:



If the window well is positioned as @MorningDove suggested, the layout could be something like this. Maybe the basement steps (marked with an X) are just inside the front door after all: