MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #13

[Linda7NJ]

If you are a LEO and at a playground with a bunch if kids and see a known pedophile there stalking the kids, and you know without a doubt what he is up to. Are you allowed to just gun him down? What if he has a warrant out and you try to arrest him and he flees, are you allowed to unload your weapon on him?

I wish.

IMO


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[oceanblueeyes]

I believe that if the Coroner had released the information that MB had NOT been shot in the back immediately it would have defused some of the unrest right away. With those "witness" reports being defused early it could help to eliminate a good deal of the protester rhetoric. Also if the convenience store robbery video had been released right away, same thing. Had MB not been killed that video most likely would have been on the evening news anyway, IMO. But in contrast Crump and others were allowed for many days to claim MB was "shot in the back" and "executed" because he was black, going uncontested and not put in check. IMO it should not have taken 9-10 days to let the public know he in fact was NOT shot in the back. When it comes to the video the family attorneys and painted a picture of MB being a "gentle giant" that was simply a student getting read for college and never been in trouble. To my knowledge it was never said what tech school or "college" he was enrolled in. Much less was it ever confirmed. I feel that if he was in fact enrolled and fees paid it would be known by now. If in fact it is one more untruth the public should know, I think.

I also believe that from Day One all parties knew which way this case was headed. That Civil Rights allegations were being made. If the FBI had immediately taken the lead in the investigation right away it could have saved time and created more local LE / Community trust early on. After all that seems to be where these cases end up anyway, on a Federal level. Why not start out that way?

IIRC Dr. Baden stated that the one wound to the inside of the right arm was a grazing wound that could have been from the back or the front. I believe it was while MB was running away, and OW was aiming at the arm area not to kill him but stop him. Thus causing MB to flinch, stop and turn around. The 2-3 second hesitation in shots being while MB actually turned around and began approaching OW again. The thing that confuses me about the autopsy that is known thus far is about the number of bullets in MB's body only being three. One to the head, one to the eye angling down exiting around the jaw and lodging in the right shoulder, one apparently to the arm or upper chest area and then finally the "grazing" bullet. But what about the other two bullets? If they were not found within his body and the diagram shows no exit wounds from the back, where did they go?

JMO's

I really don't think it would have changed one thing. When one is determined to believe one way and nothing else nothing is going to change their minds. Then they would accuse the ME of being in cahoots with LE. No matter when the store video was released it would not and did not change the mindset of the protestors.

Baden had a lot of 'could haves' 'may haves' in his answers. Imo he simply doesn't know because he is missing 25% of what he needed. Imo, it is a very incomplete AR with only guesses and maybes.

I think the chest wound was done as a reentry wound when a bullet went through the fatty tissue of one of his arm and reentered the chest. That is why it wasn't a life threatening wound, imo. The bullet had already lost most of its velocity when it struck and passed through his arm. If you notice in the diagram the chest wound is right across from one of the wounds to his arm.

IMO

 

[Truthy]

Actually to shoot someone who is fleeing is not protocol either unless it is a particular circumstance that warrants it. He is not just allowed to shoot after a cigar thief.

I still think there is a lot more to this story that we have not heard yet.[/QUOTE
Yep, I know in NYC, the standard is the level of danger is reassessed as the situation changes because shooting in densely populated areas is very dangerous thing, and you have to weigh public safetly into it. Once you are not in danger- i.e. he did not get the gun, the level of threat changes. You're not allowed to shoot someone because of a past situation, or an imagined future one (like kidnapping!). Because those things would led to revenge killings or executions for future crime.
This is where the concept reasonable comes into play.
All IMHO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Maybe you haven't heard it yet?

I have never once claimed he was shot because he was a cigar thief,


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Respectfully, None of us have heard it yet. We don't have any real and factual evidence from the police to support DW side of the events. We don't even have DW story. Just some comments from a chief and a "friend".

The problem is police are not allowed to kill people without good and just cause.

 

[Linda7NJ]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/opinion/omara-use-of-force-brown-case/index.html

"Should evidence support the fight over the gun, Wilson's belief of the danger of engaging Brown would be increased. That's the law in Missouri, and it's consistent with laws in states across the country.

You may think this is not appropriate, but Wilson has the affirmative obligation to do what is necessary to arrest. That's not his right, that's his job. And it's a job we gave him, and all other law enforcement officers, when we started passing the "fleeing felon" statutes."

From your link


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[popsicle]

Patricia Bynes ‏@Patricialicious 12m
The protest at the #Ferguson police station http://twitpic.com/eb10b2

One reporter said there is like a thousand people there.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM. Thanks for checking the article for the crime scene tape.

I just watched the video of Piaget Crenshaw again, where she claims she started videotaping the event 30 seconds after the actual shooting. In her video, however, the crime scene tape can already been seen. Which makes me skeptical about her statement. JMO.

In that video, a second police officer can be seen, standing beside ODW. Is it known who that officer is? IMO, could be one of the first police officers arriving at the scene as a backup and he might have been the one to secure the scene by putting up the police tape. However, I'm just guessing.

IIRC, she also said it took EMTs 30-45 minutes to arrive which is untrue.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

"Should evidence support the fight over the gun, Wilson's belief of the danger of engaging Brown would be increased. That's the law in Missouri, and it's consistent with laws in states across the country.

You may think this is not appropriate, but Wilson has the affirmative obligation to do what is necessary to arrest. That's not his right, that's his job. And it's a job we gave him, and all other law enforcement officers, when we started passing the "fleeing felon" statutes."

From your link


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The problem is he was not a fleeing felon. Not at that point. He was possibly a guy who took some cigars and pushed a clerk. And he had the right to a fair trial to decide his fate.

 

[Phoebeb]

Yes, what is really odd to me is the whole "through the window" thing. IMHO, the entire incident starts with a very bizarre decision on someone's part to tussle through an open window. It will be interesting to me if we find out who initiated that physical contact.

I wonder why MB and DJ didn't just take a giant step back when OW pulled the car in front of them (if DJ's statement is even true about the car stopping within inches of them). I think most people would step back rather than stand close enough to reach in, isn't that common sense? jmo

 

[al66pine]

I disagree. 4 hours is a lot of time. Theycould have covered him or put up a barrier around him to cover him from public eye.

See my comment w MSM link, about time a few posts up.

LE did cover him ~10-20min.
LE did put up barriers around him to shield him from pub view.

He was fully clothed (albeit w pants sagging, just like at c-store CCTV);
he was not left naked in the street by LE.

Maybe someone else recalls pix w barriers in place and can link pix.
IDK when they were put up.

MSM link, pls, saying he was not covered and no barriers were put in place.

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by STLtoday
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Lisa Brown ‏@LisaBrownSTL 2m
Hwy. Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson just joined police line in front of police dept. in #Ferguson, talking to protesters.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwT1sxQIcAAD3xh.jpg

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[Linda7NJ]

The problem is he was not a fleeing felon. Not at that point. He was possibly a guy who took some cigars and pushed a clerk. And he had the right to a fair trial to decide his fate.

Not after assaulting a police officer.


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

I wonder why MB and DJ didn't just take a giant step back when OW pulled the car in front of them (if DJ's statement is even true about the car stopping within inches of them). I think most people would step back rather than stand close enough to reach in, isn't that common sense? jmo

That is something that concerns me also.

I have looked at the video and I see nothing on the officers face. He looks completely normal and uninjured to me.

 

[LambChop]

Is a suspect's "state of mind" important?

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/forensic-psychology.html

A forensic psychologist will spend time trying to piece together the reasons behind why an individual would commit a violent act especially if the person responsible has not yet been remanded into custody.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Not after assaulting a police officer.


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We have no proof of that yet. We have no evidence. And I see an officer walking around with no injuries, Talking and gesturing without any kind of concern for any injuries.
I am not sure he was really hurt yet.

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by Charles C. Johnson
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Robert W. Neill, Jr. ‏@rwneilljr 17m
A little victory for @ChuckCJohnson St. Louis Post-Dispatch has also now filed suit to obtain Mike Brown juvenile records #MSSEN
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[CHERIE.T]

Can I ask you to ask yourself why?

ETA - just jumping off your post here and not meaning to jump all over you, but this is a question for those delving into every little nuance of this case to try to find the "smoking gun."

These shootings happen all the time and we never talk about them nor care about them. The ONLY reason we are even talking about this is because of the outrageous story laid out by MBs accomplish and those that gathered with him on the grassy knoll after the shooting. That's why we all paid attention. That's why it became national news. How outrageous is it for a cop to gun down an unarmed kid for walking down the middle of the street in broad daylight who was begging for mercy with his hands up! Wow...I was all over that!!! Well, sure, it would be completely outrageous...if it were true.

If the story came out immediately that MB was shot to death 10 minutes after strong arm robbing a convenience store after assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest, no one would have batted an eye. And that is

respectfully snipped for space

TheDuchess ,
A simple thanks wasn't enough. thank you. :aktion:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I wonder why MB and DJ didn't just take a giant step back when OW pulled the car in front of them (if DJ's statement is even true about the car stopping within inches of them). I think most people would step back rather than stand close enough to reach in, isn't that common sense? jmo

Yeah, and if Wilson wanted to simply gun down someone that day, why would he attempt to get out of the car? Why wasn't his gun at the ready? Why the struggle over his holstered weapon?

IMO wagon tried to get out, the door was slammed on him preventing his exit and Brown started punch him through the window and grabbing at his gun. That's the only scenario IMO that makes sense.




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[Lovejac]

Both. Either. Neither. My ETA explained I wasn't necessarily speaking directly to you but to the populace that is demanding more evidence that OW is innocent.

My question is really quite simple. When are those so adamant about expecting so much more proof to believe that OW might just be innocent and when are they going to start asking those who fed us the completely preposterous story that they have given us???

Shooting a 6 ft 3 in 300 lb guy who just strong arm robbed a convenient store and assaulted a police officer with proof that he touched the officers gun? Believable - one would expect of course that all evidence be brought to the GJ and ultimately corroborate officers story.

A clean as a whistle police officer gunning down a sweet innocent gentle giant in broad daylight who was begging for mercy with his hands in the air - NOT believable, in fact outrageous enough to incite riots in the streets. Why aren't you expecting these people of have fed us this story to provide more proof before you would even entertain that it could possibly be true.

My hunch is that many have been suckered by the narrative and are too afraid to admit it.

Re: BBM

I was suckered by the narrative in the beginning. I was initially embarassed that I jumped to conclusions so soon and was ready to string up Officer Wilson. Then I got angry about all the hate baiters that were doing their best to muddy the waters with their version of events. So I started researching on my own instead of relying on the big media channels and their agendas. I came to my own conclusion by listening to the facts and then using my own intuition and past experiences to form my own opinion.

 

[popsicle]

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930