MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[Jacie Estes]

It is time for a federal inquiry similar to the Knapp Commission.

The Knapp Commission took testimony from numerous police officers and civilians and discovered that there was systematic corruption throughout the force.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Kefauver+Investigation+and+Knapp+Commission

First, I would point out that in my question, we were talking about an agency that is actually charged and has the authority to do something, i.e. investigate the case. They may very well be capable of investigating it, but the apparent bias calls it into question when they are already saying they support DW.

In your questions, yes, I wish the community as well would wait until we do know the facts. They shouldn't obviously be calling for a conviction or prosecution when we know nothing.

I'm not sure how you think I feel. Boy I hope that doesn't sound snarky either. I'm just not quick to say it was justified because we don't know anything.

 

[DebinGA]

Catching up (still) - so maybe you've discussed this : http://www.********.com/cympec

A fund for DJ now has $130 after 10 days....They are seeking $100,000 in order to - and I quote - "help bring a little normalcy back into the life of this brave young man."

Really? One for the "there's a sucker born every minute" file. Wasn't DJ being evicted at the time of the shooting? Didn't he owe child support to 1 or more women but had no visible means of support at the time? Was that his "normal"?

 

[Lovejac]

"help bring a little normalcy back into the life of this brave young man."

:thud:

 

[noZme]

Here would be a better idea---cancel the whole thing instead of just postponing it. That highway seems to be heavily travelled. One rear end collision and someone could be seriously injured or killed. A chain reaction and several people could be injured or killed. Someone could get impatient and try to get around the bottle neck and run over a protester. People/families/truckers passing through may have no idea that they're going to have to come to a stop on a highway. They're creating an extremely dangerous situation----and for what? I have no problem with protests but surely they can come up with some idea better than this. Causing chaos on a highway makes no sense at all.

BBM About as much sense as rioting, looting & burning. It seems more about disruption & retaliation than protest for a cause.

At the risk of being called naive I ask, why not try sitting down together to discuss differences? Confrontation, shouting & intimidation don't accomplish anything worthwhile.

I think about the municipality's huge financial burden. It would be rare for a city to have emergency funds to cover all the overtime & extra expenses that have been put upon Ferguson. Taxpayers think about things like that. Some people do not even care.

 

[Sonya610]

At the risk of being called naive I ask, why not try sitting down together to discuss differences? Confrontation, shouting & intimidation don't accomplish anything worthwhile.

Confrontation, shouting and intimidation is FUN for them therefore it IS worthwhile! That is why so many are coming to Ferguson to join the party!

 

[JLSChook]

Catching up (still) - so maybe you've discussed this : Dorian Johnson Support Group - one of those online funding sites (link won't post)

A fund for DJ now has $130 after 10 days....They are seeking $100,000 in order to - and I quote - "help bring a little normalcy back into the life of this brave young man."

I said it before, and I'll say it again: We need a LOL button! :facepalm:

 

[Jacie Estes]

I think that is endemic to rednecks.

Wonder what the equivalent AA expression is to the redneck, "Hold my beer and watch me do this"?

 

[Peliman]

Catching up (still) - so maybe you've discussed this : Dorian Johnson Support Group - one of those online funding sites (link won't post)

A fund for DJ now has $130 after 10 days....They are seeking $100,000 in order to - and I quote - "help bring a little normalcy back into the life of this brave young man."

The ONLY thing that will bring some normalcy back to DJ's life is DJ himself. I suspect he's in protective custody pondering that issue.

 

[Sonya610]

I think that is endemic to rednecks.

Did you mean to say you DON'T think it is endemic to rednecks?

The beer thing is popular among rednecks but the overall concept is most certainly not limited to redneck culture.

 

[DebinGA]

The Killing Of Michael Brown: The Limits Of Federal And Civil Power


http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/killing-michael-brown-limits-federal-and-civil-power

Good article imo

Q: Is it likely that the Brown family will file a civil suit?
A: Yes.
“Unless there is evidence that clearly demonstrates that Officer Wilson was justified in killing Mr. Brown, a civil suit is likely given what is currently known about the incident,” wrote Joy. “That said, a civil suit may be very difficult to prove if no state or federal criminal charges are filed against Officer Wilson. Again, everything depends on the evidence.”
.......................................................................................................
Something to keep in mind the next time we hear "justice" defined as, "All we want is for DW to be arrested."

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I think such a review of the department is more important than a single case, regardless of the outcome of this case. I will leave the railroaded portion alone. I think the legal process is playing itself out and I'm sure that's what you would want as well, or else the argument is no different than those who want him arrested and convicted without a trial.

I agree with you here 100% as long as the review is thorough, fair, and honest.

Here, the FBI opened an investigation into the entire department in Cleveland after several shootings. I think it's still ongoing. One of the shootings was the one I've posted about, of my friend's son, where the officers involved were cleared. But the shooting that really prompted the FBI to act was this one: http://wosu.org/2012/news/2014/06/02/six-indicted-cleveland-chase-ended-137-shots-2-dead/

Two officers were downtown and thought a passing car fired at them. Later, a relative of one of the deceased who sold him the car said that the car was prone to backfiring, so it's believed that what the officers heard was actually the car backfiring. They tried to pull the suspects over and a chase ensued. The investigation here found that several protocols were violated, and that one particular officer acted egregiously - of 137 (!!) shots fired, he fired 49 of them, and he fired the last 15 shots (which were allegedly the fatal shots) while standing on the hood of the suspect car after other officers had already stopped shooting. He's claiming PTSD (he's a vet previously deployed), but even though it's totally 100% a crazy idea to run from the police, it's a tragedy that should not have happened. These two people never fired at police, and were in fact totally unarmed.

I don't think it's a contradiction at all to want departments to uphold high standards, and to be investigated when their actions cause real and irreparable harm to innocent citizens, bystanders, etc, while also deploring some of the reprehensible conduct by politicians, media, hate groups, etc. in this particular case.

 

[popsicle]

Paul Hampel ‏@phampel 2m
.@chriskingstl You ran a front-page headline that labeled Michael Brown's death a "murder." How does that benefit justice or journalism?

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Q: Is it likely that the Brown family will file a civil suit?
A: Yes.
“Unless there is evidence that clearly demonstrates that Officer Wilson was justified in killing Mr. Brown, a civil suit is likely given what is currently known about the incident,” wrote Joy. “That said, a civil suit may be very difficult to prove if no state or federal criminal charges are filed against Officer Wilson. Again, everything depends on the evidence.”
.......................................................................................................
Something to keep in mind the next time we hear "justice" defined as, "All we want is for DW to be arrested."

They will probably just 'threaten' to file a civil lawsuit and then settle out of court with the insurance company. If a civil trial is had, the jury doesn't have to be in 100% agreement on the verdict. If it's like 50% in their favor, then they get 50% of the jury verdict amount.

Seems weird to me, but that's what happens.

 

[popsicle]

Q: Is it easier for the Brown family to win a civil suit than for prosecutors to win a criminal conviction?
A: Yes, but….

Proof in a civil case is by a preponderance of the evidence, meaning 51 percent of it. Proof in a criminal case is beyond a reasonable doubt. And that reasonable doubt applies to difficult elements of the crime, such as whether the officer acted “willfully.”

Still, to win money damages, the Brown family would have to get over a hurdle that the Supreme Court erected – qualified immunity for the officer. As Chemerinsky explained, “a government officer can be held liable only if ‘every reasonable official’ would have known that his conduct was unlawful. For example, the officer who shot Michael Brown can be held liable only if every reasonable officer would have known that the shooting constituted the use of excessive force and was not self-defense.”

One problem for the Brown family is that Missouri has never changed its law authorizing police to shoot a fleeing felon to stop his escape.

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/killing-michael-brown-limits-federal-and-civil-power

 

[Sonya610]

They will probably just 'threaten' to file a civil lawsuit and then settle out of court with the insurance company. If a civil trial is had, the jury doesn't have to be in 100% agreement on the verdict. If it's like 50% in their favor, then they get 50% of the jury verdict amount.

Seems weird to me, but that's what happens.

Yeah and they have already gotten $250k plus in "support donations".

I would really like to know why the OW fund was shut down, the admins just say "it is best for Officer Wilson" and that seems very fishy. Sheesh if he didn't want the money why start a fund? And if he doesn't want it now he can DONATE it to his favorite charity and still let folks show their support for him.

Course the fund also insisted on returning donations from folks that just donated small amounts to say unkind things about OW, I emailed them to tell them that was silly, use the money for charity don't give it back to them. (Better still, use the money for a pit bull rescue charity...lol...that would really annoy the folks that donated out of spite).

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Did you mean to say you DON'T think it is endemic to rednecks?

The beer thing is popular among rednecks but the overall concept is most certainly not limited to redneck culture.

I know Jaci from other threads, so I'm sure that's what she must have meant.

My grandpa was waaay ahead of his time on race. He had friends of all different races, ethnicities in a time when that just wasn't as common among those with his working class roots. Neighborhoods were more segregated back then, as were a lot of occupations. So how was it that my grandpa was lucky enough to be able to make and maintain such an eclectic group of friends?

He ran the state liquor store. Wasn't no race or class of people that didn't come on in to make their purchase and stick around to chat up grandpa. Some of those conversations ended up progressing to real life friendships with people he never would have met otherwise.

Not to say he was perfect. When his brother went to WWII and came home with a Japanese bride, it caused a rift in their relationship that lasted for decades. Any color of American was okay with my grandpa, but the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor! My Aunt Masako (we called her Macha) was a lovely woman but for a long time he didn't even want to consider that possibility. We all have our blindspots.

 

[katydid23]

Stealing a few dollars worth of cigars would hardly get anyone a slap on the wrist. The jails,are full,to the brim and criminals that have all kinds of terrible crimes are being let out early all over the country because there is no money or place to house them.

I seriously doubt that MB thought his stealing was going to get him into any trouble.

I disagree. I think he was worried about disappointing/angering his mother if he was arrested. Especially if the rumors about his earlier arrests are true.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Yeah and they have already gotten $250k plus in "support donations".

I would really like to know why the OW fund was shut down, the admins just say "it is best for Officer Wilson" and that seems very fishy. Sheesh if he didn't want the money why start a fund? And if he doesn't want it now he can DONATE it to his favorite charity and still let folks show their support for him.

Course the fund also insisted on returning donations from folks that just donated small amounts to say unkind things about OW, I emailed them to tell them that was silly, use the money for charity don't give it back to them. (better still, use the money for a pit bull rescue charity...lol...that would really annoy the folks that donated out of spite).

I saw this article and it says two different donation sites and it gathered over 400k. Really curious about why it was shut down.

Organizers have remained silent on why donation pages raising more than $400,000 for the police officer who killed an unarmed black 18-year-old in Ferguson, Mo., were shut down without explanation over the weekend.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-ferguson-officer-fundraisers-20140831-story.html

 

[popsicle]

Ferguson fundraiser mystery solved -- or is it?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-fundraisers-20140901-story.html#page=1

 

[jmcgladr]

My children went to the same high school as I did. Affluent and middle class attend the high school.

Drinking parties and sex were the norm for the "popular" kids. Nothing changed from when I went except drugs became part of the scene when my kids went to school.

My one daughter who was an honors student and went to college as a high school student shocked me one day when we were talking. She was an adult at the time.

I was talking about how horrible the drug situation is now in schools (thus was before heroin became an issue in high schools in the white world),

She told me, "Mother, don't be so naive. All kids experiment." Apparently even my perfect daughter did as well.

I heard of affluent kids who shoplifted from stores as a lark.

I heard of affluent kids who did all kinds of things that their parents bought them out of trouble with their fancy lawyers.

Affluent parents who were drunks, cheating on their spouses, and used drugs such as cocaine.

The white world is not any different.

Ditto. I went to the same sort of high school, very majority white and wealthy/middle class. I was one of the middle class kids but a lot of the kids were wealthy and they had access to any drugs they wanted. Drinking parties were very common. Lots of pressure to have sex. I managed to stay out of that scene, for the most part, but it had mostly to do with being in with the "geek" crowd and a strong desire on my part to stay away from drugs. This was about 30 years ago, and I hear it's much worse now as far as drugs. It's still a great school, well known for academics, sports and theater. A big difference in my community is that these kids were rarely in trouble with, or even suspected by, the law.