MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #2

[Kimster]

5 things to know about Michael Brown's shooting

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-5-things/index.html

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Sure, but if the first 2 shots were right in his back while he is trying to flee, then the officer should go up on murder charges.

I dont think it is justified to kill someone just because they are running from you.

Now it would be different if we find out there was some sort of struggle for a weapon or something like that.

I didn't imply (in my post) that it was ok to shoot someone in the back.

 

[oh_gal]

I have a few relatives in Law Enforcement. Do you understand the pressure and stress they feel when they are out in uniform? They are given 'educational' videos of other officers SHOT IN THE HEAD IN BROAD DAYLIGHT by random perps/ ---it is always in the back of their minds that someone is trying to kill them because it is true. When they make a 'routine' traffic stop, they have NO IDEA whether that driver is actually an escaped killer on the run, willing to kill them and escape.

Some here seem to be implying that the Ferguson cops are racist. I think it is more likely that they are fearful. It is no secret that many gang members have a vendetta against the cops. They brag about wanting to 'shoot a pig.' They make threats about doing so. And then we wonder why some cops appear 'trigger happy.' I see it more as defensiveness and fear, as opposed to being coldblooded or racist. jmo

Thank you. I tried to post something similar to this, but my post....disappeared.

 

[Boytwnmom]

What is the general policy regarding *police* shooting people who are running away? Clearly it is not standard procedure by any means, but it certainly happens without the police getting in trouble in some situations. Is it if the police know they have committed a violent act and think they are about to if they get into the community? Like prison escapees?

As I recall, it has to be a threat of danger to the community in order to justifiably shoot them rather than let them get away. So, yes, like escaped violent prisoners, someone who just committed a violent crime who retained the ability to commit further crimes. There was a s ct case on this, Garner, I think around 2010.


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[karen in New York]

Does anyone know why the chief is releasing sensitive information and yet he is NOT in charge of the investigation or in charge of community policing in Ferguson. Seems that Johnson was supposed to be in charge. Almost like Johnson is being dissed by the local police. They don't seem to be following any particular protocol .....

 

[Hatfield]

Based on the severe reaction from the community, I suspect there were some eye witnesses that saw what they perceived to be a totally unjustified killing of this person.

Whether or not they really saw what they think they saw or not will probably only be known if they have to testify in a court of law. I do think this explains why the community went crazy though.

 

[scottiemom]

Murder? If the police accounts were correct, and a 6'4", close to 300 hundred pound guy was beating the officer about the head, maybe the officer wasn't hitting on all cylinders mentally.

 

[rose222]

Tape or not, is it worth shooting this young man? Last time I heard, petty theft and/or shoving someone into a display rack wasn't a death penalty crime.

We don't have all the facts yet but it looks like misuse of deadly force to me. It really breaks my heart.

 

[Sonya610]

Murder? If the police accounts were correct, and a 6'4", close to 300 hundred pound guy was beating the officer about the head, maybe the officer wasn't hitting on all cylinders mentally.

But he is just an innocent young "teen", sheesh if he was a few months younger he would be referred to as a "child" by the media and everyone else.

 

[MyBelle]

Sure, but if the first 2 shots were right in his back while he is trying to flee, then the officer should go up on murder charges.

I dont think it is justified to kill someone just because they are running from you.

Now it would be different if we find out there was some sort of struggle for a weapon or something like that.

Did they later retract this?

It began with an altercation involving two men and the officer around noon Saturday, Belmar said. One of the men pushed the officer into his patrol car, there was a scuffle inside the car over the officer's gun, and the officer fired one shot inside the cruiser.

Seconds later, outside the cruiser, he fired several more shots and 18-year-old Michael Brown lay dead.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/da...alking_in_street_not_robbery_police_chief.php

 

[Boytwnmom]

Thank you. I tried to post something similar to this, but my post....disappeared.

I think that's true. Was just having this convo with my 16 yr old sons. They said it seems like the cops shoot a lot of people and I said how many cops get shot and the constant threat of danger they face. You can't evaluate a cops actions without taking that reality into account. A good chance for me to remind them to do whatever a cop says if they're stopped whether you think or know its illegal etc as you need to be alive to make the argument. Some cops are hotheads, but all cops are worried about being shot which makes them interpret actions through that prism.


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[katydid23]

Tape or not, is it worth shooting this young man? Last time I heard, petty theft and/or shoving someone into a display rack wasn't a death penalty crime.

Of course it's not a death penalty crime. But knowing about the strong-armed robbery that happened just 10 minutes before this incident makes it seem more likely that this kid was amped up and might have done what the officer contends happened, and struggled with him for his weapon. In other words, these were not the innocent schoolboys on the way to Grandma;s house, as we were initially told. :no:

 

[liljim]

All I know is ...law enforcement typically don't comment on "on going investigations" why should they be forced to release information piecemeal fashion in this case??? Why can't they complete their full
Investigation before making a comprehensive statement?

sure they do, all the time. just like i pointed out in my post, more often than not when there is an officer involved shooting you hear some details about the nature of the contact/incident that very same day. like say, if the person was being stopped for being a suspect in a felony robbery and assault.

of course they can complete their investigation before they make a comprehensive statement, i didnt say they should have made a comprehensive statement, and in previous posts i have clearly said i had no problem with the delay in the release of many things like the ME report and the officers identity.

 

[reedus23]

The shoes in the street appear to be flip flops to me, JMO.

For whatever it's worth, Johnson, in one of his statements, was talking about how MB had stopped and given himself up in the middle of the street. In justifying this version he said MB couldn't have run away from the cop. MB was a big dude, with his pants halfway down and wear flip flops. Or something along those lines.

So the conundrum. Is Johnson believable? If so are we going to pick and choose which parts to believe?

Sorry. No link. Take it for what it's worth. Surely someone can find it. If my memory serves me right, it was one of the first 2 video statements, either where he was inside some house talking to friends or outside. Not in an official interview in some studio. If this needs to be stricken for no link, please do. I will RA myself.

 

[lawstudent]

I have no doubt that many police officers who make bad decisions are acting out of fear, because it's a scary job. But that also comes with the job, which is undeniably a tough one. We can't allow it to be an excuse for unlawful actions for obvious reasons. A lot of people do wrong things out of understandable fear, but unfortunately that's part of life, and they usually still get in trouble. That's why duress/necessity/self-defense defenses are so difficult and specific. And sometimes fear is aggravated by the person's perceptions of race, gender, appearance, etc. It doesn't make them any less afraid, but it also can't be tolerated by people who are charged with maintaining order. I think the military is the most obvious example of an organization that punishes people very harshly for decisions made under ultimate stress and fear, but it's almost a necessity. I very much feel for officers in some of these tough situations, but I also know that some of them act more out of anger or a sense of disrespect than fear. On the other hand, I can see why some people are terrified of the police and may not cooperate like they should - sometimes that fear is warranted.

ETA: And also this varies and I don't know what the stats are, but thinking of recent police officer deaths in my area, very little of it was gang-related. Being hit by a drunk driver, responding to a domestic disturbance, the MIT officer shot by the Boston bombers, and one who shot himself after shooting another officer over an affair. The problem is that what seems like an imminent threat in one's mind isn't always in line with reality.

ETA again: And Boston doesn't have a fantastic race relations history - busing, notably. A lot of people who aren't that old still have a lot of race-based fears on both sides, that are IMO justified in their experiences.

 

[liljim]

I DID read that several days ago, ,maybe the same day. I wonder what the justification for DISAPPEARING that information is, who did it, and why.

in a statement from LE? i think you might be referring to the rumors that cropped up and were tweeted by some reporters, they came from a youtube video of a friend(?).

if it was in a statement from LE it would have been reported all over the place, no?

 

[Irisha]

Mommy's att. backtracking. Let's see the autosy A. Sharton.:moo:

 

[~Lyric~]

Im watching hln right now and a few minutes ago they showed the chief of Ferguson say that Officer Wilson Did Not know about the robbery. I don't have a link, it was just showed in a question and answer session. Lol I'm on my tablet and haven't learned how to link with it.

 

[popsicle]

FOX 5 DC ‏@fox5newsdc 6m
LIVE NOW: Family of Michael Brown holding press conference. WATCH HERE: http://www.myfoxdc.com/category/233074/live-news-video …

 

[K_Z]

Retweeted by David Carson
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stevegiegerich ‏@stevegiegerich 23m
Protesters asking @BarackObama to show solidarity with a visit to #Ferguson #MichaelBrown @stltoday
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Wow.. That's even more chutzpah than the parents saying the authorities are assassinating their son's character by showing the footage of the robbery. I think MB himself assassinated his OWN character by robbing and assaulting the store clerk.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...-family-accuses-ferguson-police-smear-n181696

This wasn't just a little minor shoplifting of a pack of gum. This was clearly violent criminal behavior, and MB looks perfectly comfortable and confident while robbing and assaulting. He has done this before, IMO- maybe this was just the first time he almost got caught. I'm sorry his mother didn't know that about her son. No mother wants to believe her child is a criminal and a bully. If the family had to release a statement at all, they should have apologized to the store chain AND the clerk on behalf of their son for his criminal behavior and assault, among other things they could have said. How about expressing regret for the loss of property, the riots, the 20+ destroyed police cars? I am just dumbfounded at the defiance and arrogance of this statement and these people. I can't even comprehend that much arrogance and defiance.

IMO, MB would still be alive if he had cooperated with the officer. I know it isn't a popular idea, but after all we've heard today, I believe MB caused his own death. That's my opinion. The officer should not be charged with any crimes, IMO. He wasn't profiling, stalking, etc. he was doing his job, in a dangerous and violent environment.

However, the POTUS, nor anyone in the administration, should NOT comment any further on this situation, and should definitely NOT go to Missouri. OMG, what a cluster. I absolutely cannot believe that anyone there would think the POTUS should make a visit. That is simply outrageous, on a number of levels. This ranks right up there on the outrage meter with the woman who left her 6 months old and 2 yo to bake in a hot car, then got $114K in donations based on her crocodile tears in her mugshot! What is happening in America???

What do they expect the POTUS to say, "if I had a son, he'd look like Michael Brown?" SMH.

And BTW, it is FAR from settled that MB was "surrendering" during this incident. I wish people would stop quoting that as if it was established truth.