MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #21

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IMHO because that's where the 9 Aug incident occurred . . . again, the issues bringing Ferguson down are the same issues bringing down many other communities of North County & North City.

Tanks? no tanks -- maybe militarized vehicles like the one at the Shell (Delmar & Skinker) in U City; it's not a tank

I have no military training. It was a definite military-type vehicle that looked like a tank to me. Whatever it's officially called is not my concern. It was big, it was ugly, it's something they use in the Middle East, and has no place in my community. The point I was making is that it wasn't on the streets of Jennings and Dellwood residents, but the Jennings and Dellwood residents were in FERGUSON. Few actual Ferguson residents participated in the tomfoolery, but all of them had to pay the price for it. I'll say it again- those looters don't care- and never did care- about Mike Brown. They came to Ferguson because they saw an opportunity to exploit a tragedy. They do not represent anyone who actively seeks progress and change.
 
I live less than 10 miles from Ferguson. Where do you live? I saw the tanks. Not sure who told you they weren't there. Perhaps they, like you, weren't local either?

It's a purely technical argument to try to convey a message that people were overstating matters. Bottom line is they weren't a lot different than vehicles used in Iraq and Afghanistan in combat.
 
I'm a walking contradiction when it comes to this forum, it seems. I realize I am extremely passionate about this issue, and at times, I become a total jerk about it. It's not my intention, and for that, I truly apologize. I can't decide whether or not I'm going to keep posting here, because honestly, this forum makes me insane. On the one hand, I'm so happy there are so many of you that care about what's happening to this itty bitty town in Missouri that most people had never even heard of prior to August 9. On the other hand, the misinformation makes my blood boil. People tend to WANT to believe the residents of Ferguson are horrible people, and that literally, truly breaks my heart.

Here are some of the things I want to set the record straight on:

1. The rioters were not residents of Ferguson. They were criminals, opportunists who saw a chance to steal for their own selfish reasons, and knew that due to circumstances, they'd be able to blame the community of Ferguson for their actions. There are businesses in Ferguson that the community needed that will not reopen because of the crimes these outsiders committed. The crimes themselves are unforgivable. That they were committed in the name of Ferguson makes it even worse.

2. 99% of the people posting about Ferguson on Twitter are simply instigators. If anyone is interested in some Twitter handles that are accurately reporting the work that is being done both on behalf of the city and by the residents and authorities of the city, let me know. I can provide lots of resources. Like the looters, most of these imposters are not residents of Ferguson, nor do they represent the best interest of the city.

3. This was alluded to this morning by another poster- people question why those of us who really want to do good things in Ferguson are not speaking out against these "instigators" that do not represent us. The fact is, we are trying. Really, really trying. Registering voters, educating people about the local political system, teaching people how to use their voices in a responsible manner is EXTREMELY important, but unfortunately, totally unsexy. The media would much rather report on the 20 people who were at Busch Stadium last night (even though those people do NOT represent us) than report on the hundreds of people that were at UMSL during the same time, speaking with Claire McCaskill, Attorney Connie Rice, Gwen Ifill, the chief of the Cincinnati police department and Alderman Antonio French. That's where the REAL "protesters" were. And there were lots of us there. Watch the PBS special this Friday night, and you'll see. So many people came that they had to open an overflow room in another building to accomodate them. I was lucky enough to get there in time to get a seat in the main forum. Please know that we do contact the media in an effort to set the record straight. We do try our best to dispute what others are saying about Ferguson, but people don't seem to want to hear it. There are people in this forum who don't seem to want to hear it.

4. Like any other touchy and controversial situation, there will be imposters pretending to represent what Ferguson is all about. It has to be very difficult for those not from the area to get a grasp on what is truly the voice of Ferguson, and what isn't. The bottom line is, as another poster already stated, these problems were ongoing well before Mike Brown was shot. His death was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It didn't start with him, and it will not end with him.

5. Ferguson has given birth to a generation of young black activists. While that's extremely inspiring in so many ways, some of these young men are terribly misguided. They are distrustful of a system they have been taught to believe is against them, they have years- and in some cases, generations- of anger towards "the man" and towards any authority figure. This includes teachers, police officers, local officials, store owners- anyone and everyone they feel represents a system that does not represent or care about them. Now, not everyone has to agree with them, but they were not born angry. Their experiences do matter. I will NEVER condone violence- I have cut many people out of my life since Mike Brown's death, because they supported violence as a way of being heard. What I won't do, however, is discount their feelings. There is a reason such a huge swatch of our population is angry and desperate. Some of the responsibility for that lies within the black community itself. Some of it lies within a school district that isn't even accredited anymore. Some of it lies with public officials that do not care about the poor and disenfranchised. Some lies with LE. All I'm saying is that there is plenty of blame to go around. This will never be resolved, progress will never be made as long as people refuse to acknowledge the very real pain that resides in this community. It is real. At least TRY to understand it, if you can.

6. To the poster that wondered whether we are merely registering people to vote, or if we're also educating them, the answer is we are educating them. Again, the process isn't sexy. Most of the elected officials on the ballot do not reflect the population of Ferguson, and have run unopposed for many years. We have to change that. Getting people registered to vote is only one step. Getting them passionate enough to show up to the polls is another step. Getting people who truly represent the community on the ballot is yet another step. We are working hard- day in and day out- to do these things.

7. While instigators are doing crazy things online and at Busch Stadium, real work is being done in the local churches. There are many youth programs and outreach groups that are working with the hundreds of young AA men who really do want to affect change in Ferguson. As locals, we are not paying any attention to the few that instigate with banners at Busch Stadium. We are focusing on the men who WANT to make a difference, who don't care about their 15 minutes of fame, who want to make their community better.

Hopefully that clears some stuff up. Again, the vast majority of Ferguson wants progress. Please do not assume that people in front of a camera, simply because they say they represent us actually do. 99% of the time, they don't. The people that are working towards positive change don't have TIME to go to a ball game and raise a ruckus with 19 other people. We are too busy actually DOING it. We have full-time jobs, we have families, and we're trying to do a lot of work in the community too. We are simply too busy making a difference in a positive way to worry about the negative. We rely on many of you to call BS where you see it, so we can keep working.

Sorry about the novel.

Great post, thank you. It's very heartening to learn that many are trying to effect change, and are doing it in the best possible way.

Thank you for giving us info from "the other side."
 
I have no military training. It was a definite military-type vehicle that looked like a tank to me. Whatever it's officially called is not my concern. It was big, it was ugly, it's something they use in the Middle East, and has no place in my community. The point I was making is that it wasn't on the streets of Jennings and Dellwood residents, but the Jennings and Dellwood residents were in FERGUSON. Few actual Ferguson residents participated in the tomfoolery, but all of them had to pay the price for it. I'll say it again- those looters don't care- and never did care- about Mike Brown. They came to Ferguson because they saw an opportunity to exploit a tragedy. They do not represent anyone who actively seeks progress and change.

The big ugly machine, whatever you choose to call it, has as much place in your community as rioters, looters, and those who burn businesses to the ground.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Now I need that nap, or maybe vomit.
 
LOL - okay; but tanks have tracks & MRAPs have wheels

heck, there's one sitting at the Shell on Delmar & Skinker most of the time . . .

Maybe AV for armored vehicle. That will be even shorter. I'm sure someone will think I'm talking about audio visual at some point though. lol
 
Basically yes.

Whether you're sick of hearing about it or not, race is a problem in St. Louis. I don't subscribe to the theory that everyone is racist, and I can't think of anyone I know personally who does. I'm a bi-racial woman who was adopted as a child, and raised by a white family. I ultimately married a black man. We have 2 children. We are college educated, we work for a living, and we are trying our best to raise aware, free-thinking individuals. Literally every single person on my side of the family is white. My family, thankfully, taught me the value of human life, regardless of skin color. That said, I know through the experiences of my husband, myself and many of our friends, racism still impacts a lot of people. What are your suggestions in making progress? Do you feel it's all on the AA community to fix this, or do you think we all need to put our differences aside, check our egos at the door and actively listen to each other?
 
The big ugly machine, whatever you choose to call it, has as much place in your community as rioters, looters, and those who burn businesses to the ground.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Now I need that nap, or maybe vomit.

I NEVER said the rioters or looters had a place in my community. Because I'm sympathetic to the plight Ferguson faces I suddenly support looters and rioters? I never condoned violence of any kind against any human being under any circumstances. I have actively condemned it, both in this thread and in other places. To so much as hint otherwise is an outright lie.
 
tanks. mine resistant vehicles. Semantics IMO. Those heavily armored military style looking vehicles were present and we all saw them on the live feeds so to argue about terminology seems silly in light of a civilized exchange we are attempting to have.

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/499691017533403137/photo/1

I disagree. Tanks are offensive weapons, these are not. Armored vehicles are used for safe transport of money, valuables, people, and tools. Not uncommon for SWAT teams.

LAPD credits armored vehicle for protection in morning shootout

The chase ended hours later, when one of the men in the car opened fire with a “high-powered rifle” at an approaching SWAT team protected by a BearCat armored vehicle. One officer was shot in the calf during the exchange and was rushed to surgery, and the shooter was killed.

“The BearCat played a large role in the survival of his life,” said LAPD Officer Wendy Reyes of the wounded SWAT officer. “We don’t know what the outcome could’ve been. He could’ve been killed.”

Such vehicles are used in active shooting situations -- such as the Stockton bank robbery and shootout last month that left three people dead. The vehicle shielded approaching officers who closed in on the suspect.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-swat-gun-battle-armored-vehicle-20140818-story.html
 
To me, this is part of the continuing lack of facts that has fueled misplaced outrage. Michael was not shot in the back, he was not left on the street as a lesson, no tanks attacked peaceful protestors, there were FOIA requests, etc. It goes to the larger false narrative, IMO.
 
Whether you're sick of hearing about it or not, race is a problem in St. Louis. I don't subscribe to the theory that everyone is racist, and I can't think of anyone I know personally who does. I'm a bi-racial woman who was adopted as a child, and raised by a white family. I ultimately married a black man. We have 2 children. We are college educated, we work for a living, and we are trying our best to raise aware, free-thinking individuals. Literally every single person on my side of the family is white. My family, thankfully, taught me the value of human life, regardless of skin color. That said, I know through the experiences of my husband, myself and many of our friends, racism still impacts a lot of people. What are your suggestions in making progress? Do you feel it's all on the AA community to fix this, or do you think we all need to put our differences aside, check our egos at the door and actively listen to each other?

My suggestion is to quit looking at skin color. 99% of the population could care less.
 
Great post, thank you. It's very heartening to learn that many are trying to effect change, and are doing it in the best possible way.

Thank you for giving us info from "the other side."

It bears worth repeating that these type of efforts so deserve more MSM coverage than 6 people at a Rams game. It's a damn shame too because it paints such a different picture of what is really going on.
 
The big ugly machine, whatever you choose to call it, has as much place in your community as rioters, looters, and those who burn businesses to the ground.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Now I need that nap, or maybe vomit.

Now this I agree with 100%. Rioters and looters have no place in my community and neither do those big ugly machines. I say we get rid of both for good.
 
I disagree. Tanks are offensive weapons, these are not. Armored vehicles are used for safe transport of money, valuables, people, and tools. Not uncommon for SWAT teams.

LAPD credits armored vehicle for protection in morning shootout

The chase ended hours later, when one of the men in the car opened fire with a “high-powered rifle” at an approaching SWAT team protected by a BearCat armored vehicle. One officer was shot in the calf during the exchange and was rushed to surgery, and the shooter was killed.

“The BearCat played a large role in the survival of his life,” said LAPD Officer Wendy Reyes of the wounded SWAT officer. “We don’t know what the outcome could’ve been. He could’ve been killed.”

Such vehicles are used in active shooting situations -- such as the Stockton bank robbery and shootout last month that left three people dead. The vehicle shielded approaching officers who closed in on the suspect.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-swat-gun-battle-armored-vehicle-20140818-story.html

I made no comment as to whether the vehicles belonged at the scene of the rioting. My comment was simply that to argue about what the vehicle is called detracts from the actual conversation IMO. We all know to which vehicles are being discussed, no mater what we call them.
 
I made no comment as to whether the vehicles belonged at the scene of the rioting. My comment was simply that to argue about what the vehicle is called detracts from the actual conversation IMO. We all know to which vehicles are being discussed, no mater what we call them.

I never said you did. I disagree with the premise the term used doesn't matter and that all know which is which. Their purpose and how they're used are very different.
 
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