MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #21

[Klood-N]

The narrative around them being "tanks" in the media and online has been that LE caused the riots by the equipment they used, as opposed to it being in response to the mob, which isn't borne out by facts and the timeline. Like LE was overly aggressive first. It appears to be part of the storyline used to get DOJ to intervene in Ferguson, and to draw in more protestors.

Eta: reply to K_Z started prior to LambChop's post. Hit wrong button, apparently, again. :facepalm:

 

[CMac2]

post removed QUOTE]

<modsnip> I don't wear an "I support Mike Brown" shirt either. I support the human beings who live in Ferguson, and I support progress so the youth in that community can move forward in a positive way. I support empowering people, teaching them that they do have a voice, and there are ways to make that voice heard- at the polls. I support the right of every resident of every community to live in peace, and support the idea that law enforcement should protect and serve all of its community, not just a few. That's where I stand. I also understand that I cannot be a part of positive change if I do not hear all people, and not just those I happen to agree with. Not one group of people created this mess on their own. Everyone played a part, and as a result, the solution is going to take effort from everyone.

 

[K_Z]

My suggestion is to quit looking at skin color. 99% of the population could care less.

Exactly. It's the "gangster culture" that glorifies criminal behavior, and behavior, not skin color. Behavior. Behavior. Behavior.

When someone ACTS like a criminal, reasonable, civilized people PERCEIVE them as criminals. If people want to disassociate themselves from the behaviors that foster criminal perception, they will no longer be perceived as criminals by most people.

 

[Sonya610]

I do know we also heard when the news of this shooting initially broke that the KKK were planning on sending people to Ferguson. Thank goodness that never happened.

The only thing I have read about KKK involvement was that one branch (KKK is no longer a united entity, they haven't been since the 60's) was talking about taking donations for OW.

As far as KKK threats to shoot protestors, I would find such "threats" highly suspicious and IMO probably rumors started by the protestors or their leaders.

 

[katydid23]

Wholeheartedly agree with this. I think emotions are still too raw right now, but in time, I have been advocating from day 1 that there needs to be more interaction between the citizenship and LE and not just when cuffs are being put on them.

LAPD has a pretty good program.They found the best time to form bonds with the low-income youth is with sports. So they have various youth sports programs---football, Basketball, boxing----where the coaches are LAPD employees. If they have a chance to get to know thw neighborhood kids when they are ages 7- 12, then it is helpful when they become teens to have that foundation.

 

[CMac2]

Exactly. It's the "gangster culture" that glorifies criminal behavior, and behavior, not skin color. Behavior. Behavior. Behavior.

When someone ACTS like a criminal, reasonable, civilized people PERCEIVE them as criminals. If people want to disassociate themselves from the behaviors that foster criminal perception, they will no longer be perceived as criminals by most people.

The maddening thing is that we're dealing with a culture of people that have been taught their behavior is secondary to their skin color. I know that to be false- I'm living proof of it, as is my husband. But we can't begin to change the behavior until we get inside the minds of those perpetuating it, and help them see that while yes, racism does exist, it is not the sole reason that they are living disadvantaged lives. These people disregard the well-intentioned statements from some people, because those people will not listen to their experiences. Won't listen to the stories they have to tell that led them to believe the things they believe. We have to learn how to listen- we don't have to subscribe to their views- but if they don't believe we take their experiences seriously, even if we don't agree with them, they will never take us seriously either.

 

[krimekat]

I would just be happy if we could get people to show up and vote. I think it's a stretch to say protestors want to "punish" Stenger- given the focus on violence and riots, that's an unfortunately choice of words. I try to encourage people to do their own research on the candidates, and not take either side's word for it. We live in a technological age in which there is no excuse for ignorance.

Stenger can do NOTHING about McCulloch as McCulloch is an elected official, although protesters are more or less "punishing" him for not supporting them, ignorance like you state is not excusable in today's World! IMHO it's counter-productive & IMHO it's political because Stenger beat Dooley by a land-slide -- but that would be for another thread & boring to those who do not reside in metro StL

If anything, protesters should be "punishing" Nixon

 

[CMac2]

<modsnip>

So the point of the exercise is to TRY to be threatened? That's ludicrous. I've never been threatened, because I've never behaved in any manner that anyone- OW supporter or MB supporter- perceives as threatening. If my goal is to educate and empower, why would I purposely try to stir emotions by first wearing a MB shirt and then wearing an OW shirt? Sounds like purposely inflaming emotions to me, and why that would be something you'd endorse is absolutely dumbfounding. You said you value your life, and that's why you won't go "there". Simply showing up and educating yourself with a first-hand view of what's happening "there" would in no way threaten your life or your safety. Purposely angering people as you're suggesting may have a different outcome- but that's the case anywhere, not just Ferguson.

 

[krimekat]

Zaki Baruti, head of the Justice for Michael Brown Leadership Coalition, accused Stenger and his political ally - County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch - of orchestrating a "racist campaign" against incumbent County Executive Charlie Dooley in the August primary.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_986ddf34-95a0-50c1-bcdb-a56edc43ffc0.html

Sounds like his organizing in the minutes after Michael was transported paid off.

BINGO - I was spot on!

Honestly, Dooley's campaign was laughable to say the least - IMHO the word "racist" & racism are overused & have lost their true meanings

 

[Klood-N]

Exactly. It's the "gangster culture" that glorifies criminal behavior, and behavior, not skin color. Behavior. Behavior. Behavior.

When someone ACTS like a criminal, reasonable, civilized people PERCEIVE them as criminals. If people want to disassociate themselves from the behaviors that foster criminal perception, they will no longer be perceived as criminals by most people.

Your post reminded me of this:

Brown, he says, could be led astray by kids who were bad influences but by spring, he became focused on getting his degree.

Kennedy, his teacher, says Brown had to break free from being around kids who "caused him to be in the wrong place at the wrong time a lot of times. .... He had been around too many thugs."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-brown-called-a-little-kid-in-a-big-body-ahead-of-funeral/

 

[K_Z]

The maddening thing is that we're dealing with a culture of people that have been taught their behavior is secondary to their skin color. I know that to be false- I'm living proof of it, as is my husband. But we can't begin to change the behavior until we get inside the minds of those perpetuating it, and help them see that while yes, racism does exist, it is not the sole reason that they are living disadvantaged lives. These people disregard the well-intentioned statements from some people, because those people will not listen to their experiences. Won't listen to the stories they have to tell that led them to believe the things they believe. We have to learn how to listen- we don't have to subscribe to their views- but if they don't believe we take their experiences seriously, even if we don't agree with them, they will never take us seriously either.

I agree with much of this, but I also believe that if any of the young people want to "start over", and reject the gangster culture lifestyle-- they CAN. The gangster culture is a dead end. Embracing that lifestyle will only lead to more pain, more rejection, more anger. They have to make the hard decision to walk away from it, even if their own friends and family don't support them, or call them "whitey". This is America, and they DO have the ability to reject this culture, pursue education, put on business type clothing when going to school and job hunting, and find a community where "they are judged on the content of their CHARACTER, and not the color of their skin."

It all starts with the individual. That comes from within the person, and hopefully, from within the right voices in the community.

 

[CMac2]

Stenger can do NOTHING about McCulloch as McCulloch is an elected official, although protesters are more or less "punishing" him for not supporting them, ignorance like you state is not excusable in today's World! IMHO it's counter-productive & IMHO it's political because Stenger beat Dooley by a land-slide -- but that would be for another thread & boring to those who do not reside in metro StL

If anything, protesters should be "punishing" Nixon

We certainly agree about Nixon. Dooley should have lost, in my opinion. He's had plenty of time to right a lot of wrongs, and frankly was uninterested. I don't vote skin color, and Dooley needed to go.

 

[Klood-N]

LAPD has a pretty good program.They found the best time to form bonds with the low-income youth is with sports. So they have various youth sports programs---football, Basketball, boxing----where the coaches are LAPD employees. If they have a chance to get to know thw neighborhood kids when they are ages 7- 12, then it is helpful when they become teens to have that foundation.

There were posts and links here awhile back about the outreach and nice things, like fixing a basketball hoop iirc, they were doing in Ferguson.

 

[SStarr33]

Your post reminded me of this:

Brown, he says, could be led astray by kids who were bad influences but by spring, he became focused on getting his degree.

Kennedy, his teacher, says Brown had to break free from being around kids who "caused him to be in the wrong place at the wrong time a lot of times. .... He had been around too many thugs."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-brown-called-a-little-kid-in-a-big-body-ahead-of-funeral/

Wow, I hadn't seen that. "In the wrong place at the wrong time a lot of times".....hmmm.......

 

[Frydaddy]

Ok, while my internet connection's been wonky, I put together a timeline, as I don't think I've seen one on the threads. Sources are links below.


Timeline

Saturday, August 9

11:44 AM 911 Sick call comes in.
11:48 AM Wilson arrives on scene accompanying ambulance; two month old baby struggling to breathe.
11:51 AM Another call comes in: robbery at a convenience store on West Florissant.
11:52 AM The dispatcher gives a description of the robber as a black man in a white T-shirt and says the suspect is walking northbound on West Florissant toward the Quick Trip convenience store.
11:53 AM Officers dispatched.
11:54 AM Officers arrive on scene.
11:57 AM More detailed description over radio. Suspect wearing red Cards cap, yellow socks, w another male subject walking towards QT at this time.
11:58 AM Khaki shorts added to description.
12:00 PM Wilson leaves sick call location on Glenark Drive.
12:01 PM Officer Wilson encounters Michael and Dorian blocking traffic.
12:02 PM Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson reports "disturbance in progress" in Canfield Green housing complex.
12:03 PM Resident tweets: "I JUST SAW SOMEONE DIE OMFG"
12:04 PM EMS contacted. A second officer arrives on the scene.
12:05 PM A supervisor arrives on scene.
12:05 PM Chief Jackson receives call from his sergeant about shooting, turns around and heads to scene, and contacts Belmar to investigate shooting.
~ 12:05 PM Ambulance from sick call comes upon scene. Paramedic crosses crime scene tape, checks Brown, finds no pulse, determines injuries "incompatible with life". Care of Michael's body legally transferred to the St. Louis County Medical Examiner.
~ 12:10 PM Firefighter covers body with sheet.
12:10 PM County police begin to flood the scene with cars.
12:30 PM Belmar contacts his Chief of Detectives.
12:51 PM St. Louis County homicide detectives dispatched.
1:00 PM More than a dozen county police units had been dispatched to the scene by 1.
1:02 PM Crowd grows to hundreds. Police dispatch canine units.
1:30 PM County homicide detectives check in from scene.
2:00 PM By 2, another dozen county units including two with police dogs have been dispatched.
2:01 PM Livery driver Calvin Whitaker is called to pick up and deliver the body to the county morgue.
2:11 PM 4-6 shots fired on Canfield.
2:14 PM Ambulance dispatch noted additional gunshots, then a Code 1000 , from Chief Jackson calling all available jurisdictions to help .
2:14-2:34 PM First precinct dispatches more than 20 units from at least eight different municipal forces, from Bel-Ridge to St. John to Velda City. Over 100 officers from 15 departments respond.
2:18 PM Crime scene unit arrives on scene.
2:25 PM Livery driver arrives to take body to morgue. "Let's kill the police," he hears. Crowd flings water bottles at SUV, curse and call them murderers. Police advise them to stay in vehicle, get down. Medical examiner's investigator also arrives; police say he can't work until crowd calms down.
2:36 PM Resident tweets again: "Homie still on the ground tho".
2:45 PM Tactical operations (SWAT) dispatched for crowd control. Four more canine units arrive.
3:07 PM Crime Scene Unit takes its first photos of the scene.
3:20 PM Tactical operations officers — the county SWAT team — began pulling in.
~4:00 PM Jackson began to circle the perimeter with Brown’s mother, who pleads with crowd, saying: "Please move back. All I want them to do is pick up my baby."
~ 4:15 PM Driver loads Brown's body for five-mile trip to morgue.
4:37 PM Body checked into morgue.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/15/ferguson-police-report.pdf

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_0b73ec58-c6a1-516e-882f-74d18a4246e0.html

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...el-brown-ferguson-missouri-timeline/14051827/

http://fox2now.com/2014/09/08/medic...el-browns-body-lay-on-the-ground-for-4-hours/

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/crime/2014/08/09/police-shooting-ferguson/13832083/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/timeline-fatal-police-shooting-michael-brown-25003171

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Heavy-police-presence--270609091.html

http://www.wfmynews2.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/18/timeline-michael-brown-ferguson/14260205/

http://www.ksdk.com/longform/news/local/2014/08/13/timeline-michael-brown-shooting/13938891/

Excellent post Klood, very strong work!!! Below is a little more detailed timeline I put together using police reports and the videos from the various players. I post this with the caveat that the times all hinge on whether page 15 of the 16 page handout to the media is an accurate depiction of when the police cars arrived on scene. As you will see, there are some differences in times on mine compared to yours. Look it over group and see what you think.

11:44:24 Sick call opened @ Glenark
11:48:09 Wilson arrived @ Glenark sick call
11:51:57 Robbery call opened @ FM&L
11:53:54 Officer dispatched from complex behind FM&L
11:54:51 Officer arrived @ FM&L
11:55:06 Officer saw no sign of DJ & MB
11:58:25 Second officer arrives @ FM&L
12:00:00 Wilson departure from sick call
12:01:00 Wilson encounters MB & DJ
12:01:50 Disturbance call on Canfield Dr. (shooting over, IMO)
12:02:22 Second officer arrives Canfield
12:04:55 EMS contacted
12:10:29 Third Officer arrives on Canfield
12:10:40 Brady video starts
12:11:18 Fourth officer arrives on Canfield
12:11:38 Piaget first video starts
12:11:48 Brady video ends
12:12:24 Piaget first video ends
12:14:00 Black Canseco video starts
12:16:00 Ambulance arrives
12:16:23 County PD arrives on scene
12:17:01 Piaget uncle video starts
12:17:08 Piaget uncle video ends
12:17:20 Piaget paramedic video starts
12:17:22 Piaget paramedic video ends
12:18:03 Piaget firetruck video starts
12:18:06 Firetruck arriving
12:18:07 Piaget firetruck video ends
12:23:44 Piaget "called the news" video starts
12:24:03 Sheet placed on body (Black Canseco video ends)
12:24:13 Piaget "called the news" video ends

PS - I will post links to the videos and docs I refer to in a later post, don't have access/time at the moment.

 

[CMac2]

I agree with much of this, but I also believe that if any of the young people want to "start over", and reject the gangster culture lifestyle-- they CAN. The gangster culture is a dead end. Embracing that lifestyle will only lead to more pain, more rejection, more anger. They have to make the hard decision to walk away from it, even if their own friends and family don't support them, or call them "whitey". This is America, and they DO have the ability to reject this culture, pursue education, put on business type clothing when going to school and job hunting, and find a community where "they are judged on the content of their CHARACTER, and not the color of their skin."

It all starts with the individual. That comes from within the person, and hopefully, from within the right voices in the community.

I often ask the young people I work with: "How many old drug dealers do you know?" The answer is none. There's a reason for that. These young men have been brainwashed into believing that their lives mean nothing. Unfortunately, many of their own families perpetuate this- we all know the stats of the single mother homes. No one seems to care about these kids, so they bind together, look to each other, and THINK they're replacing the family they never had with each other. What they're doing is holding each other back, and writing their own tickets to prison and death. A young man said yesterday at the town hall- and he was dead serious, and full of emotion- "I would rather die and go to hell than call 911 if there was an emergency at my home." Just think about that for a minute. What in the world happened to make him feel that way? Unfortunately, this is a multi-generational problem, and an entire subset of our community lives an existence that lacks hope. WE know there's a better way. They see doctors and lawyers all around them, but they don't believe that option is open to them. My goal isn't to pick sides or race bait. My goal is to teach them that they can be better, can do better. I don't know how else to do that without also hearing them out. I'm not preaching at them, I'm working with them.

 

[LambChop]

ArgusRadio's Mustafa posted his bruise.
https://twitter.com/ArgusRadio/status/514045414304387072

Why was his shoulder in front of the mirror of the SUV, in the middle of the road? It is illegal to block traffic, disturb the peace, etc.

Okay, now we need to really look at this picture. The man is clearly taller than I am and I just went out and check my car and I had to bend over to get into a position where my mirror would have hit me in the back portion of the upper arm and that is not while standing on a sidewalk. We know, by the video posted earlier, that it appears he was leaning over in front of the vehicle which looks as if he is trying to get another photo of the man's license. Again, why. There were 5 or 6 people taking pictures of the man's license plate all yelling I got it, I got it before Mustafa was even struck by the mirror. Why were so many people taking a picture of this poor man's marker number while they surrounded him and long before anyone was hit?

 

[Klood-N]

BINGO - I was spot on!

Honestly, Dooley's campaign was laughable to say the least - IMHO the word "racist" & racism are overused & have lost their true meanings

Just saw this pic
Shahid & Baruti held the Stenger press conference. Still the lead voices.
https://twitter.com/_WendyTodd/status/514085706205913088

 

[TexanMom]

I agree with much of this, but I also believe that if any of the young people want to "start over", and reject the gangster culture lifestyle-- they CAN. The gangster culture is a dead end. Embracing that lifestyle will only lead to more pain, more rejection, more anger. They have to make the hard decision to walk away from it, even if their own friends and family don't support them, or call them "whitey". This is America, and they DO have the ability to reject this culture, pursue education, put on business type clothing when going to school and job hunting, and find a community where "they are judged on the content of their CHARACTER, and not the color of their skin."

It all starts with the individual. That comes from within the person, and hopefully, from within the right voices in the community.

Exactly! It's a culture of dysfunction that needs to change, and blaming it on racism needs to stop.

 

[reedus23]

No, because a request does not include THREATS of violence if not complied with. The addition of the threat is what changes it from a request to extortion, imo.

I'm just scratching my head trying to figure out why in the hell we're making a bigger deal of it than the council members. Doesn't mean I think they've used the best or most appropriate means or methods, but it sure seems we are more worked up about it here than they are.