MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #3

[vulture]

BBM

I know of no research to substantiate your allegation.

"The nation's IQ scores have kept climbing over the past 100 years."

...

"According to his extensive research, IQ test scores in the U.S. increased by an average of three points per decade during the 20th century."


http://theweek.com/article/index/219002/are-americans-smarter-than-ever

In regards to your lead theory, almost all homes at the turn of the century had hazardous lead levels, many if not most of those homes have been destroyed, and the remaining ones should have had the lead levels removed to conform to modern housing codes. Kevin Drum at Mother Jones has done some interesting work on the various research on the effects of lead exposure on crime due to the lowering of impulse control.

Let's see what I can find:

Here is one that seems to apply mainly to Europe:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sidesho...qs-dropped-14-points-over-last-180634194.html

I do read the Daily Mail so it's possible I read about a European study. I didn't remember where I heard or read the statistic, so that's why I said "so I've heard". Thank you for reminding me why it's good to find a link for things. If it's a European study I shouldn't say it's from the US. I find it hard to believe that IQ is up and not down based on what I see around me, but of course people would argue about what is a good IQ test.

Anyway, it's hard to evaluate a study from a news article but that was a possible theory trying to make sense of incomprehensible behavior. You know how they publish headlines saying this is good to eat then not too long after, another study saying it will kill you. You have to look at the actual study and you also have to know who paid for it and who did it to know if there is any truth to it.

Here is info on lead in St. Louis - http://leadsafestlouis.org/
"One child in 20 in the City of St. Louis has a blood lead level at or above the CDC level of concern."

"90 percent of the housing stock in St. Louis City was built before 1978 and may contain lead based paint."
http://leadsafe.aphidesign.com/risk/could-my-home-have-lead/

Side effect of lead - "aggressive and violent behavior"
http://leadsafe.aphidesign.com/risk/why-is-lead-dangerous/

It's not my idea that this might be a factor in high crime rates, I've heard this talked about before. I'm not a scientist so I can't say how much effect it might have. Just something to consider when people see behavior that makes no sense and ask, "why"?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/police-shooting-draws-massive-protests-317336131948


Witness: Brown did not reach for police weapon

Tensions reached a fever pitch in Ferguson, Missouri on Monday, after police shot and killed unarmed teenager Michael Brown on Saturday afternoon. Dorian Johnson, who says he was an eyewitness to the shooting, joins Chris Hayes in an exclusive interview.

 

[bettybaby00]

My guess: This many days after the shooting, it's possible that some accounts are being purposefully tailored to paint a portrayal of what happened that's as malevolent against the officer as possible, especially after the release of the store CCTV footage.

If so, maybe this is one of the reasons why the DOJ et.al didn't want that footage released - they were trying to protect the integrity of the investigation and prevent witness accounts from being possibly 'adjusted' in retaliation to the CCTV footage release. It's a delicate situation and I don't think Police Chief Jackson fully understands the ramifications of his decision. Based on what I've seen of him in pressers, I think he's in way over his head, which is one of the reasons why his jurisdictional authority has been usurped - and rightly so, IMO.

I agree Police Chief Jackson seems in over his head.

But this whole "DOJ didn't want video released, and chief acted without authority," (I'm paraphrasing) seems to be an attempt to further demonized the local police.

When asked why the police department released the video, Jackson said "because the press asked for it," adding that he decided to do so in response to a barrage of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests. When asked about Wilson, Jackson called him "a gentleman" and "a quiet officer," adding that Wilson "never meant for this to happen."

I saw this interview, and IIRC he also stated he held on to the video for as long as he could.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/08/darren-wilson-shot-and-killed-michael-brown.html

 

[MyBelle]

It doesn't matter if he was "aware" or not. MB physically assaulted and intimidated the store clerk while stealing merchandise. Since he didn't use a gun it is classified as "strong-arm robbery" instead of "armed robbery."

Do you actually think MB didn't know what he was doing?

I don't know that MB was aware it was classified as a strong-arm robbery. I think he had done it before and the clerk failed to report it. Which means as he walked down the middle of the street, he wasn't expecting to be stopped by the police officer. He wouldn't know a BOLO had been released. And if he didn't know a BOLO was out, he sure wouldn't have anticipated that the police office would be justified in shooting him as he tried to flee. He may have thought the police officer was showing excessive force just for a petty crime and not understood what was unfolding.

I think we all do need to remember that even though he was a legal adult, he still had the developing brain of an 18-year-old.

JMO

 

[fran]

:stop:

I should not have to reiterate on every thread that Websleuths is a victim friendly site. Michael Brown is a victim. We can't allow things to be made up about this young man that are not in the MSM. We don't know if he was high and we don't know exactly what he planned to do with the cigars. All we know is he was 'alleged' to have taken them from a store.

Please be mindful of our rules. TO's will be given out if our TOS rules are broken.

tia,
fran

 

[gramcracker]

wondering how much Baden charges to perform an autopsy of this caliber and who is paying that fee

Not to mention that he then casually sauntered down the middle of the street until approached by LE.

and then continued to casually saunter down the middle of the street after being approached/warned off by LE

 

[Amber29]

Snipped my me and BBM for focus.

The spin sessions about what the autopsy findings "are" have been going on for days already. Attorney Crump said that himself, that they were discussing "what the results are, and how to release them" (my paraphrase).

It's my opinion that there will be extreme official resistance to releasing anything in the reports-- they may go so far as to not even confirm how many shots were fired. They know the results of the preliminary tox already. They know a lot about the autopsy results right now. If there was something there that could implicate the officer, you bet it would be released, loudly and persistently. IMO, the autopsy results, the TRUTH, is again a giant problem. IMO, the officials are already behaving as if the TRUTH in the autopsy report is a giant problem that has to be suppressed at all costs. We've already seen what the TRUTH of the well-documented videotapes of the robbery and assault has produced.

Yes I completely agree with this post. When the autopsy is released, IF it were to reveal something in the toxicology report is it going to be considered "character assassination"?

 

[katydid23]

Our family just did a re-enactment of SUV throat grab. My husband is 5-11. My son is a slim 6-1. We used a Honda Pilot. (I had read that the officer drove an SUV so wanted to reenact with SUV and not lowered level of car). If my son was against the SUV, my husband could reach out and grab him somewhat (while son was straightened). Remember MB is taller at 6-4 and I don't know height of DW. If my son was a couple inches or more away, then it was impossible for my husband to even touch his throat. However, if my son was bending towards the window, my husband could easily grab his throat. But as we thought before, not much traction or leverage. Can't see why anyone in an SUV would initiate such a thing unless they were being attacked.

Thank You so much for doing that. I knew it sounded odd the way Dorian was trying to sell it. Now it makes much more sense. Why would a teen move in and lean towards a cops car window? Probably not with good intentions in this case. And hearing that the officer had a bruised face and swollen eye makes more sense now too. MB could have punched him and leaned in for the weapon. jmo

 

[Sonya610]

:stop:

Michael Brown is a victim.

NO charges have been filed against Police Officer Darren Wilson. Is there evidence that Officer Wilson fired without cause and Michael Brown is a victim?

Has a verdict already been reached?

 

[Frydaddy]

I agree with what you wrote, but I would have to add that 'I'm afraid for some people it doesn't really matter what happened -- they want this officer exonerated.' I've read countless posts here that reject all witness statements given thus far because they simply cannot believe that a LEO would shoot someone unjustifiably as has been reported. I can't judge the shooting or the LEO at all at this point -- we simply do not have the facts.

The bolded part is inaccurate. If I reject some or all of a witness statement, it is because they disqualify themselves with inconsistency or lack of credibility. For example...

Within minutes, this is one of the three witnesses, Piaget Crenshaw. Listen to her speak and tell me if you find any of her comments remotely odd. Her parts are from 1:16-1:32 and 1:45-1:56.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/09/man-shot-killed-in-ferguson-apartment-complex/

I'll get to more of why I don't believe much of her statement eventually.

 

[Montjoy]

The bolded part is inaccurate. If I reject some or all of a witness statement, it is because they disqualify themselves with inconsistency or lack of credibility.

rsbm -

Respectfully, I wrote 'some people', so whether or not that is the reason you dismissed the testimony does not make my statement inaccurate. You're just not part of the 'some' I mentioned.

 

[Boytwnmom]

Snipped my me and BBM for focus.

The spin sessions about what the autopsy findings "are" have been going on for days already. Attorney Crump said that himself, that they were discussing "what the results are, and how to release them" (my paraphrase).

It's my opinion that there will be extreme official resistance to releasing anything in the reports-- they may go so far as to not even confirm how many shots were fired. They know the results of the preliminary tox already. They know a lot about the autopsy results right now. If there was something there that could implicate the officer, you bet it would be released, loudly and persistently. IMO, the autopsy results, the TRUTH, is again a giant problem. IMO, the officials are already behaving as if the TRUTH in the autopsy report is a giant problem that has to be suppressed at all costs. We've already seen what the TRUTH of the well-documented videotapes of the robbery and assault has produced.

What you say makes sense. Unfortunately. It seems this situation has become one involving many players who now have a vested interest in ensuring a particular outcome, rather than in finding the truth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[bettybaby00]

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/police-shooting-draws-massive-protests-317336131948


Witness: Brown did not reach for police weapon

Tensions reached a fever pitch in Ferguson, Missouri on Monday, after police shot and killed unarmed teenager Michael Brown on Saturday afternoon. Dorian Johnson, who says he was an eyewitness to the shooting, joins Chris Hayes in an exclusive interview.

I said this earlier, and will say it again...I really don't think these witnesses going on TV and offering detailed descriptions of what they saw is in anyway helpful.

There is no way to know how truthful they are being, or if LE even considers them credible witnesses. I'm not saying they are lying, but continually putting out these statements serves no valid purpose IMO.

Anyone can call into a radio show and say "I'm a witness, this is what happened." There is no way to verfy these types of statements outside of a court of law. Obviously DJ doesn't fall into this category b/c it's been established he was actually at the scene, Everyone else speaking to the press, not so much.i still question whether or not DJ should even be talking to the press. :dunno:

I found the following comment posted at the link you provided and feel it sums up this situation.

Let's just make it official. All trials from now on should be held via social media sites using witness testimony given to biased reporters as advised by sensational civil-suit seeking opportunistic super-lawyers. Let's allow emotion to rule and eliminate logic & evidence altogether.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

vic·tim
[ víktim ]


1.somebody hurt or killed: somebody who is hurt or killed by somebody or something, especially in a crime, accident, or disaster
2.somebody or something harmed: somebody who or something that is adversely affected by an action or circumstance
3.somebody duped: somebody who is tricked or
http://www.bing.com/search?q=defini...20&sp=1&cvid=70273fa61d8c41ac8f2ba4af31514ed0

 

[MyBelle]

I agree with what you wrote, but I would have to add that 'I'm afraid for some people it doesn't really matter what happened -- they want this officer exonerated.' I've read countless posts here that reject all witness statements given thus far because they simply cannot believe that a LEO would shoot someone unjustifiably as has been reported. I can't judge the shooting or the LEO at all at this point -- we simply do not have the facts.

We do have some facts. The video, for example. I am not going to believe an LEO has shot someone unjustifiably. I expect to see proof at some point. I give LE the same presumption of innocence I give to everybody else.

 

[bwt42]

I agree with what you wrote, but I would have to add that 'I'm afraid for some people it doesn't really matter what happened -- they want this officer exonerated.' I've read countless posts here that reject all witness statements given thus far because they simply cannot believe that a LEO would shoot someone unjustifiably as has been reported. I can't judge the shooting or the LEO at all at this point -- we simply do not have the facts.

It does matter to me what really happened. And yes I hope the officer did not break the law. Best possible outcome. JMO

 

[Boytwnmom]

I agree with what you wrote, but I would have to add that 'I'm afraid for some people it doesn't really matter what happened -- they want this officer exonerated.' I've read countless posts here that reject all witness statements given thus far because they simply cannot believe that a LEO would shoot someone unjustifiably as has been reported. I can't judge the shooting or the LEO at all at this point -- we simply do not have the facts.

True, but posters here aren't in the streets. I was only speaking in regard to the larger world, not this site. And I actually have not heard any officials state the shooting was justified or anything definitive about the officer being in the right. I think the majority of people want to wait for the whole story and facts to come out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Montjoy]

We do have some facts. The video, for example. I am not going to believe an LEO has shot someone unjustifiably. I expect to see proof at some point. I give LE the same presumption of innocence I give to everybody else.

There's a video of MB's shooting? Whether or not the shooting was justified is the heart of the matter here.

 

[sorrell skye]

Not all "heavy-handed" LE was in response to violence. And to be fair, LE did in fact breach journalists rights by arresting them and 1.) Not Giving Miranda Rights 2.) Excessive force 3.) Not giving the reason they were being detained 4.) Illegally instructing them to stop taping a video of them in McD's. LE also hit a group of journalists with tear gas and rubber bullets. The general tone against journalists has been hostile as well as towards the public. There have been groups of peaceful protesters who also had tear gas and rubber bullets used against them. That'd be why the "militarization of our law enforcement" is currently a hot topic among politicians. I'm not defending the way the media has covered the story, I'm just explaining why I think they are choosing to do so in a way that may seem bias. Btw, there were peaceful protesters who stood in front of local businesses to protect them from looters as well. The media and LE failed to recognize them as well.

That was supposed to be in reply to Skye, sorry! Been awhile since I've posted :blushing:

I was one of the posters on here who spoke out against the police arresting the journos in the McD's. I was outraged that it appeared that the police (under the direction of the FPD and the StL County PD) were trying to infringe upon 1st amendment rights of the peaceful protesters and the press. The police response in those instances was wrong, IMO.

I was up half the night on Friday and watched Tim Pool's livestream (Vice News) of the looting of the stores on Friday night, and I saw the group of peaceful protesters form a line to try to protect one of the stores. I was applauding them when they did so. They put themselves in danger and thankfully no one was harmed.

I'm a devout advocate of civil rights. I've marched in numerous protests. I've been active politically in my community (attending caucuses and getting elected as a delegate for my presidential candidate). I will always support someone's right to peacefully assemble. I will always support a free press.

I will not support looting, vandalism, or violence as an expression of 1st amendment rights. Most of the demonstrators are peaceful, but there are those who are looking for an excuse to cause mayhem and destruction.

Under Captain Johnson's authority, the police stood down Friday night. As a result, some business owners lost literally everything.

I appreciate that Captain Johnson wants to build a relationship with the community and I admire some of his leadership qualities. But that doesn't mean that LE should be rendered impotent in the face of the lawlessness that we witnessed Friday night. Thank Goodness Captain Johnson realized that the kinder, gentler approach wasn't going to work. Thank Goodness the governor declared a state of emergency and imposed a curfew.

While citizens have the right for their grievances to be heard and to do so in a respectful, peaceful manner, citizens also have the right to feel safe in their communities. Business owners have the right for their livelihoods to be protected from looters and vandals.

 

[MyBelle]

There's a video of MB's shooting? Whether or not the shooting was justified is the heart of the matter here.

I think you know I was referring to the security video at the store. And it has a direct bearing on whether the shooting was justified just as the BOLO issued has a direct bearing on it.

JMO