MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #9

[tlcya]

The NAACP march (which was the one being discussed upthread) was not connected to officer Wilson. The 'rally' (as STL Today characterized it) in support of DW was held in St. Louis.



http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_81124bbb-084e-5a56-aee0-b361f4ac41ab.html

I like the focus of the NAACP march that was held in Ferguson today. Very positive energy and motives.

I did not watch video of either march but as long as each group did so in a peaceable calm manner I fully support their right to do so and their restraint in doing it properly to the best effect for their cause. This is American and free speech at work and it is a beautiful thing. Everyone has expressed their views on both sides or the issue and now I hope things can calm down and folks can wait to see what the grand jury comes up with as their recommendation. To charge or not to charge.

 

[popsicle]

The NAACP march (which was the one being discussed upthread) was not connected to officer Wilson. The 'rally' (as STL Today characterized it) in support of DW was held in St. Louis.



http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_81124bbb-084e-5a56-aee0-b361f4ac41ab.html

I like the focus of the NAACP march that was held in Ferguson today. Very positive energy and motives.

I agree... and neither of those two should be confused with the riotous demonstrations of MB supporters that we have seen speak out for an immediate arrest. jmo

 

[Lovejac]

I appreciate that this is a very well organized and planned march. It has a start point, a route, and end point. And I think the requirement that everyone wear the same T-shirt is probably wise because it makes it harder for trouble makers or rabble rousers to blend in and stir trouble which allows for the marchers to make their point without it being diluted or corrupted by idiocy. MOO

I agree. I watched for a little while earlier today. They conducted it perfectly. Kudos to them for showing how it's suppose to be done.

 

[Amber29]

So am I! Originally, before reading all the main stream media links, I thought LE was not justified in their actions.

I'm with you and Linda, I actually had heard the original story and thought how awful it is. Then some conflicting things started coming out and I came here to get to the truth! Big thank you to everyone for the informative and thought provoking posts!

 

[tlcya]

the alderman says that Brown lay in the street for "five hours, close to five hours" at arround the :50 mark of this ABC video interview in which he and correspondent walk the path from store to shooting scene. I hope that helps those seeking this info


http://abcnews.go.com/video/embed?id=25013581

 

[Bernina]

is this the link everyone is looking for?

Mr. Brown’s body remained in the street for several hours, a delay that Chief Jackson said last week made him “uncomfortable.” Antonio French, a St. Louis alderman who has been active in this case, said on ABC on Sunday that the body had remained in the street for nearly five hours.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html

Or maybe the embedded ABC one?

Mr. Brown and a friend, Dorian Johnson, were walking down Canfield Drive at 12:01 p.m. when Officer Darren Wilson of the Ferguson Police Department encountered them. Moments later, Mr. Brown was dead, shotat least six times by Officer Wilson.

Sometime around 4 p.m., Mr. Brown’s body, covered in a blue tarp and loaded into a dark vehicle, was transported to the morgue in Berkeley, Mo., about six miles from Canfield Drive, a roughly 15-minute drive.
Mr. Brown’s body was checked into the morgue at 4:37 p.m., more than four and a half hours after he died.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/u...ys-timeline-4-hours-on-a-ferguson-street.html

Sooooo...........seems like there's a mathematical problem going on somewhere?:thinking:

 

[tlcya]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/u...ys-timeline-4-hours-on-a-ferguson-street.html

Sooooo...........seems like there's a mathematical problem going on somewhere?:thinking:

It seems that people who have been speaking in the press and saying five hours are using rough estimates and rounding times to come to that number. MOO

I have no idea how long is "normal" or even if there is one. I would think every scene is different, every investigation containing its own challenges that factor into the situation. I am sad that he lay there uncovered for hours [ETA I have since discovered the UBM was NOT the case and I was confused] but do not know enough about shooting scene investigations and their protocols to even begin to decide that something was done improperly. No clue. Shrug.

 

[cady]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/u...ys-timeline-4-hours-on-a-ferguson-street.html

Sooooo...........seems like there's a mathematical problem going on somewhere?:thinking:

Lots of 'em. Like distances between DW and MB, distance of MB's cap from MB's corpse. (someone calculated it as 100 feet) Maybe my eyes deceive me, but I saw the corpse and the cap (just guessing) about 5 feet from each other. Also, if the distance between the corpse and the cop SUV was around 35ft, in order for MB to be running TOWARD DW, he would have had to run AWAY from him at a further distance than 35 ft in order to die 35 ft from the SUV. ?????But we do not know the actual distances, because they have not been confirmed. JMHO

 

[islandmixed]

thank goodness I copied before hitting submit to find a locked thread



I do agree with you about MB, his peers, his environment and learnt behaviors. I read an article last night that gave more insight into MB's life, his upbringing and the challenges he faced. I am sure they were not uncommon from the life, upbringing and challenges of his peers.

I believe that those factored greatly into the decisions he was making and it is very sad to me that his life has ended when it had barely begun. aa9511 made points about humans make mistakes, young people are at risk of falling in with bad crowds etc. (s)he also raised good points regarding those factors. It is heartbreaking that MB's mistakes may have been in part responsible for his life ending there on the street that day. But that is why parents fear their children getting in with those crowds who lead them astray and why parents lose sleep at night worrying that their child may be headed down the wrong path. Because we know our babies could end up with life changing or life ending consequences for stupid young decisions.

Thank you for sharing your perspective and personal experiences as a young man who escaped making those type of mistakes that could have such serious consequences as prison or death. And thank you for working with youth to try to help them do the same.

Phew, i thought i was on my own in here for a minute lol. But you know with any child death, it gets to me deeply. I always have to pull from my own experience and as a social worker. Not easy to really be who you are when everyone around you is fighting, wanting to fight you, police pulling you over etc. It takes it toll on you for sure, but thank god i knew i had to clean it up. Some just dont make it, even if MB was dead wrong, i am still against any child/adult being shot to be killed. Appreciate your comments and understanding..truly

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

In my opinion, you should try to read as many of the main stream media posts as you can. Cherry picking a few phrases to align with your thoughts is really not fair to LE or MB. Most of the posters here are trying to find out the truth about what happened to MB. As I stated before, when I joined websleuths July 2014 to follow 2 other cases, I have gained a tremendous amount of knowledge by reading as many full articles as I could. Sorry you don't feel that way. I don't feel I can add anything else to help you seek the truth.

:bump: :

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?254395-MO-The-Shooting-of-teen-Michael-Brown-*Media-Timelines-Maps*-No-Discussion

 

[DebinGA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN-5VmZHll0

"No jobs. No peace"

 

[jggordo]

I am in hopes that all involved become familiar with and understand that the GJ is a very secretive procedure. Both Jurors and evidence is not revealed immediately in almost all cases. Unless a witness voluntarily shares their testimony it is not revealed as well, I believe. With all the outrage demonstrated due to lack of transparency, this is going to be a real test IMO.

One thing I did learn today (on CNN) is that Wilson has a right under MO law to testify before the GJ, not an "invitation" by the District Attorney. *

I believe the Holly Bobo case is a current case that is testimony to the patience it takes for everyone. In that case the GJ met in March of this year and filed a "true bill" to indict in two hours. To this day there is no real evidence released and won't be until trial. And that young lady and her family (including WS) have waited over three years for Justice. So killing and dying truly is not a black and white issue.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...missing-from-TN-discussion-thread-*Arrests*-5

JMOs

*I will try to find another link besides CNN*

GRAND JURY
A grand jury replaces the preliminary
hearing in certain cases as a method by
which criminal charges can be filed. A grand
jury is a panel of private citizens, chosen in
a manner similar to the way in which trial
juries are chosen, whose job is to look into
allegations of criminal activity.
The prosecutor presents evidence to the
12 grand jurors, nine of whom must agree
on whether a crime was committed and
whether there is probable cause to believe
the defendant committed it.
As with a preliminary hearing, the case
is either bound over to the circuit court or
the defendant is freed.
Grand jury proceedings are closed to the
public. Defendants do not attend unless they
are testifying as witnesses.

ago.mo.gov/publications/courtprocess.pdf

 

[islandmixed]

We are all entitled to our opinions, but opinions don't make up protocol.

If someone punches you in the eye socket and busts your eye socket and fights you for your gun, you don't reach for a tazer to protect yourself. You don't have to have a protocol in place to know this. That's just common sense.

Is it a tragedy that someone got shot and died? It is.

Is it a tragedy that MB made some really bad decisions that led to his death. It REALLY is.

Is it a tragedy that Officer Wilson now has to live with using his gun to kill a suspect? It REALLY, REALLY is.

I'd like those who question Officer Wilson's action to step back for a moment and evaluate facts & options, using logic, not emotion.

1. FACT: OW got punched by MB in eye socket, blew out OW eye socket. (This is a felony.)
2. FACT: MB not only TOUCHED OW gun but he tried to get it. (Also a felony.)
3. LOGIC: If MB was trying to get OW gun, he was trying to disarm OW for the purposes of killing OW.
4. LOGIC: If MB had gotten OW gun, he would have likely killed OW.
5. FACT: OW was able to stop MB from getting his gun.
6. FACT: OW had a hold of his gun (because he had stopped MB from getting it and gun, allegedly, went off.)
7. FACT: In order for OW to use a tazer (if available), OW would have had to properly re-holster his gun (which could have required exiting the car depending on how OW gun position and body position ended up in the struggle), retrieve his tazer, and prepare it for use.
8. FACT: During the course of #7, given MB's past 15-20 seconds of behavior, it is highly likely MB would have continued his assault on OW and very likely another gun struggle would have/could have occurred.
9. FACT: OW life was in danger.
10. FACT: Given the above facts & logic, the only recourse OW had was to use his gun to stop the suspect.

If I am off here, please, feel free to counter with facts (and links) and please explain, logically (without emotion) why I am off.

Exactly, my own opinion, and i dont believe none of those facts at all and i dont need to explain it either. I believe what i believe cause it keeps on happening to young men. Whether they smoke weed, run there mouth, come from a poor area, i could careless. Not right imo

 

[popsicle]

It seems that people who have been speaking in the press and saying five hours are using rough estimates and rounding times to come to that number. MOO

I have no idea how long is "normal" or even if there is one. I would think every scene is different, every investigation containing its own challenges that factor into the situation. I am sad that he lay there uncovered for hours but do not know enough about shooting scene investigations and their protocols to even begin to decide that something was done improperly. No clue. Shrug.

IIRC he didn't lay there uncovered for hrs.

 

[tlcya]

IIRC he didn't lay there uncovered for hrs.

I will go find a link but even city officials admitted it was regrettable that he did lay there uncovered in the middle of the street for a long time, longer than they would have liked, due to issues caused by crowd control at the scene and investigating detectives arriving due to unexplained but legitimate circumstances.

As always popsicle, I appreciate your links, and that you keep me honest about mine

 

[popsicle]

I am in hopes that all involved become familiar with and understand that the GJ is a very secretive procedure. Both Jurors and evidence is not revealed immediately in almost all cases. Unless a witness voluntarily shares their testimony it is not revealed as well, I believe. With all the outrage demonstrated due to lack of transparency, this is going to be a real test IMO.

One thing I did learn today (on CNN) is that Wilson has a right under MO law to testify before the GJ, not an "invitation" by the District Attorney. *

JMOs

*I will try to find another link besides CNN*

If the GJ does not indict him then yes, all of the evidence becomes public. jmo

 

[islandmixed]

Response in RED by me.

There is only the statement by Dorian, who was a participant in the entire event, and absolutely nothing by Wilson. No one knows the state of mind of OW. No one has published OW's ER findings.
Other witnesses did not have the full vantage of the entire incident, what was said, saw/recorded only snippets, or were too far from the scene to perceive with certainty what was going on.

I thought that also...how are we all so sure about it lol Bravo!

 

[popsicle]

I will go find a link but even city officials admitted it was regrettable that he did lay there uncovered in the middle of the street for a long time, longer than they would have liked, due to issues caused by crowd control at the scene and investigating detectives arriving due to unexplained but legitimate circumstances.

As always popsicle, I appreciate your links, and that you keep me honest about mine

Ok, I will wait for a link. I will add that I think they regretted that he lay in the street so long. I remember in the camera video the Officer put a sheet or something over him. jmo

 

[islandmixed]

I really, wholly with my heart, do not believe MB would have reached inside the car and grappled with OW to get his gun. Especially as a Black man, who would have known what LE is capable of doing to him. No matter how stupid he was, I don't think he was that stupid. I'm sorry, I am just.not.buying.it at this time. It doesn't make one iota of sense to me, even for someone so stupid as people are claiming he was.

It makes a lot more sense to me that the gun was already being pointed at him by Officer Wilson. In my heard and my head, this makes a lot more sense than the above scenario.

JMO.

Ageed. Not saying this cannot happen but i cannot understand why some are quick to believe this boy was so brave to do all of this over him being asked to get out of the way! LOL was it that serious, seems like MB was on the hunt to kill a officer that day or na! JUST SAYING...

 

[Linda7NJ]

It seems that people who have been speaking in the press and saying five hours are using rough estimates and rounding times to come to that number. MOO

I have no idea how long is "normal" or even if there is one. I would think every scene is different, every investigation containing its own challenges that factor into the situation. I am sad that he lay there uncovered for hours but do not know enough about shooting scene investigations and their protocols to even begin to decide that something was done improperly. No clue. Shrug.

He was covered up in about 10 minutes.

There is a video of him being covered somewhere. Iirc it's the video with the witness that corroborated Wilson in the background.


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