GUILTY MO - Hailey Owens, 10, Springfield, 18 Feb 2014 #2

[iamnotagolem]

Fred Phelps is going to be protesting at Hailey's vigil.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/217...8118/?comment_id=217705338434205&notif_t=like

I've seen comments on FB indicating they are going to protest his protesting and block him from the funeral.

Just hearing the Phelps name makes my stomach turn, so much hate they spew.

 

[hockeymom4]

In this type of case, as well as most cases in general, LE would NEVER have called the father first. His vehicle was a suspect vehicle, so you never want to tip off the suspect.

They had a description of the suspect. I am fairly certain that LE was able to determine in a matter of seconds that it wasn't the father based on age and looks after looking at his drivers license....which IS why they were calling him.

 

[Methodical]

But wouldn't LE have a DL photo of the dad to show the witnesses who could rule him out as the suspect? I thought I'd read in the news that they did try phoning him, to find out the whereabouts of the car--but couldn't get hold of him.

Yes, LE would be able to pull up anyones DL photo in a matter of seconds, whether it was the dad or the SOB Craig himself. But if they in fact did phone the dad, then that call would have been *after* they couldn't get ahold of him in person, as a last resort. Even tho the dad likely did not fit the perp's (Craigs) description, it still is a risk to phone the dad before contact was made with him, as he cannot be trusted to not tip off his son while LE is still searching his whereabouts. It's just proper policework methods.

However, if they couldn't reach the dad in person immediately, then LE has to break SOP, and try calling him, as a child's life is at stake and time is of the essence. Hope that makes sense now.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I thought I read that also. I thought is was after they contacted him and he said his son had the vehicle is when they went to CW's house.

Yes, what I read was that they were finally able to contact the dad when he arrived home around 7 PM in Ash Grove (LE were staking it out). That was when they were told that that car was the one his son drove. After getting CMW's address, LE went from there to the son's house and staked it out, shortly before CMW arrived back from the laundromat.

 

[Methodical]

They had a description of the suspect. I am fairly certain that LE was able to determine in a matter of seconds that it wasn't the father based on age and looks after looking at his drivers license....which IS why they were calling him.

See my reply to PoirotryInMotion above (Post #326).
Hopefully you will then understand WHY they do things a certain way, and in this case likely possible they had to break the "rules of engagement" so to speak, as the child's life was in dire danger.

 

[kdgdid]

Fred Phelps is going to be protesting at Hailey's vigil.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/217...8118/?comment_id=217705338434205&notif_t=like

That group makes me sick. They were also suppose to protest at the funeral of the young man who was beheaded on a Greyhound bus outside Winnipeg MB. I remember how enraged people were. They ended up not coming because their were not allowed across the border unfortunately because I do not think they would of made it out alive if they had showed up.

 

[hockeymom4]

Why is that?

I feel everyone, in every profession, should have random drug tests.


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Our country doesn't have the funding to random drug test every single person all the time. I also think our money can be used somewhere way more valuable. I strongly believe that we should be evaluated by what we do at work not what we do at home. Now, if it is found that the job is suffering or behavior is odd, then it should be allowed to do an on the spot test.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I believe this was mentioned in the last thread--according to this article, CMW got a bachelor’s degree in psychology, with a minor in criminal justice at then-Southwest Missouri State University:

He was there at the time of the drug charge — 1990. He said he was studying criminal justice and psychology before he “just quit going” because he partied too much.

According to the university, Wood attended from the summer of 1986 to the fall of 1992. He graduated in Dec. 18 of 1992 with the bachelor’s degree.

http://www.news-leader.com/article/20140219/NEWS01/302190101/

It's been my experience that a lot of people who go into the field of psychology often do so for personal reasons as well as the desire to help others. In other words, often their own turmoil and psychological self-study has been the initial push down that career path. (Hope you don't jump on me for stereotyping--2 of these in my own family have admitted this to me; I've also seen it in two or three other people I know in the profession.)

Don't want to speculate too much with this, but the degree combination does make me wonder if this might hint of any troubling issues he might have been trying to work through earlier in his life.

 

[hockeymom4]

See my reply to PoirotryInMotion above (Post #326).
Hopefully you will then understand WHY they do things a certain way, and in this case likely possible they had to break the "rules of engagement" so to speak, as the child's life was in dire danger.

I have firsthand knowledge as to why LE does things they do. We will all responding to you saying they would NEVER call the dad, when in fact they did. That's all.

 

[Methodical]

This is a story that ran regarding the AA and an interview regarding this particular case. It seems that MO has a 4 step criteria before issuing an Amber Alert. Once met they say it took 11 minutes.

http://www.abc17news.com/news/the-a...010/-/18421100/24565892/-/ytiyu9/-/index.html

Here's a quote from that article... "The AMBER Alert issued for Hailey Owens in Springfield, Mo took 11 minutes once Missouri Highway Patrol was notified."

The problem here is the approx 2 hrs it took (prior to the 11 minutes) for it to go to MHP before the alert was issued. The first officers on scene had all the "criteria" for the amber alert shortly after he arrived. The witnesses provided ample indisputable evidence of a stranger abduction, complete with the best vehicle & perp description possible on the face of this earth. That Amber Alert had no reason to be delayed any longer than 30 minutes,, tops. (and I'm being "generous")

 

[iamnotagolem]

Our country doesn't have the funding to random drug test every single person all the time. I also think our money can be used somewhere way more valuable. I strongly believe that we should be evaluated by what we do at work not what we do at home. Now, if it is found that the job is suffering or behavior is odd, then it should be allowed to do an on the spot test.

I can't agree with this. I don't want my child around a teacher doing illegal things at home as long as they don't get caught and as long as his/her job doesn't suffer as a result.

Where do you draw the line? As long as they do illegal things at home and they don't get caught, then it's ok? Does this apply to child molesters and rapists?

This is why we have laws, we don't get to pick and chose which ones we think are acceptable.

 

[floridamomma]

I'd rather have my children's teacher not be under the influence of any mind altering drug.

well of course!

just saying, if a teacher does coke in the bathroom, it's out quick. but a teacher can smoke a fat one Friday night, and it's there for awhile.

but we agree on the basic point.



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[Jo in Calif]

I thought part of the problem with response time was LE knew who the vehicle belonged to but they could not get a hold of the dad because his cell phone was off.

IIRC LE was not trying to get a hold of him by phone. IIRC he said he did not get the amber alert because his phone was off.
I could be wrong about this but I seem to remember this in an article.

 

[hockeymom4]

I can't agree with this. I don't want my child around a teacher doing illegal things at home as long as they don't get caught and as long as his/her job doesn't suffer as a result.

Where do you draw the line? As long as they do illegal things at home and they don't get caught, then it's ok? Does this apply to child molesters and rapists?

This is why we have laws, we don't get to pick and chose which ones we think are acceptable.

First, just because a teacher is smoking marijuana at home, that does not mean it is illegal! They could have a medical card and as we move towards having more states having it legal, what they do at home isn't illegal. Second, and this blows my mind, especially on this thread... Are you actually even comparing a teaching smoking marijuana or any drugs to a rapist or child molester?! Seriously?

We so have laws and right now, teachers are free to do whatever they want in their free time just like everyone else. As long as while they are at their jobs, they get the job done, that is all that matters. People don't get to pick and chose or even know what teachers do in their personal lives....unless it effects the students. And no, I am not a teacher. But, yes, I am raising three children. It bothers me 0% what their teachers do outside of the classroom as long as when they have "my kids" they are 100% on. It is no different than any other job. Everyone needs to be on all the time and we can't drug test everyone randomly. We can't even do it with all the teachers. I can think of another group that would be better suited to receive them.

 

[floridamomma]

in a day and age where I can show 200 of my closest friends my home made bread sticks with two clicks, we should be able to let a community know a child has been attacked and kidnapped and is facing imminent danger.

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[Methodical]

I have firsthand knowledge as to why LE does things they do. We will all responding to you saying they would NEVER call the dad, when in fact they did. That's all.

Sorry, but you do not have first hand knowledge, unless you yourself are SPD LE directly involved in the case, (not your uncle, or 3rd cousin's "advice" either).
With that said, I'm former LE, and I don't even have first hand knowledge, as I'm not with SPD, however I do well know of what contact processes are deemed "safe" and which are not, in the apprehension of a subject.

I provided the overwhelmingly used standard op procedure in "rules of contact", but even some LE dept's do not follow these rules for 2 reasons, one good and one bad.
1. sloppy, careless contact that can jeopardize the case or victim (bad)
2. SPD may have info WE don't have, or judged it better to call, due to unique case risk to the girl. (good/acceptable)

In any case, we do not know for 100% certainty if and when they called the father. You can't believe what's reported in newspapers if you want to be completely factual and credible.

 

[kdgdid]

IIRC LE was not trying to get a hold of him by phone. IIRC he said he did not get the amber alert because his phone was off.
I could be wrong about this but I seem to remember this in an article.

I think you are right I remember that now to.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I think you are right I remember that now to.

Didn't he say he came home and LE was at his residence and he told LE that he is the registered owner of the truck but his son uses it? I think the father gave LE his son's address.
It was in the interview with the dad if someone can find that news article.

 

[CountryGirl]

Here is the 3 page form LE has to fax to MHP before they can issue an AA. Local LE also has to make an NCIC entry before faxing this to MHP.

 

[Foxfire]

This is a story that ran regarding the AA and an interview regarding this particular case. It seems that MO has a 4 step criteria before issuing an Amber Alert. Once met they say it took 11 minutes.


http://www.abc17news.com/news/the-a...010/-/18421100/24565892/-/ytiyu9/-/index.html

Here's a quote from that article... "The AMBER Alert issued for Hailey Owens in Springfield, Mo took 11 minutes once Missouri Highway Patrol was notified."

The problem here is the approx 2 hrs it took (prior to the 11 minutes) for it to go to MHP before the alert was issued. The first officers on scene had all the "criteria" for the amber alert shortly after he arrived. The witnesses provided ample indisputable evidence of a stranger abduction, complete with the best vehicle & perp description possible on the face of this earth. That Amber Alert had no reason to be delayed any longer than 30 minutes,, tops. (and I'm being "generous")

I agree, Methodical, LE dropped the ball on Hailey Owens. She was taken during the evening work traffic. This is why the neighbor could not follow his vehicle. A description of the perp & vehicle description w/license tag# via AA would have likely produced multiple 911 calls and saved her, imo. An aware public is analogous to a security camera across the landscape of the USA.

http://www.abc17news.com/news/the-a...010/-/18421100/24565892/-/ytiyu9/-/index.html

"Law enforcement doesn't work without the support of the people. That was our main focus to get the people involved," said Jackson.

The specific criteria is also so people have something to look for like a vehicle description.
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