Found Deceased MO - John Forsyth, 49, doctor, Mercy ER Clinic, Cassville, 21 May 2023 *car found*

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Lovequestions said:
He had a baby under a year old with his previous girlfriend . I don’t know how he had time for all his activities and his family too.
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Easily.

I once, over 25 years ago, briefly knew a doctor who had a very bad judgment to “consensually” misuse his patient. (Lost his practice for many years but, being a genius, was allowed to teach).

I missed the whole storm. Didn’t know him at that time. All I heard was how women working with him were providing “moral testimony” and surprise, surprise- each was saying something about him “tending to keep poor personal boundaries”. Later some people who were smart to keep mum said that yes, he had the tendency to touch their hair jokingly when passing by, etc.

Fast forward. A couple of years later, his male colleague was telling how he shared a huge hotel suite with “a colleague” during a conference, and the colleague couldn’t allow him to sleep as he was walking in the adjacent room till 3 am and then at 5 am when the storyteller woke up, the person was still walking up and down.

It was easy to find out who “the colleague” was.

This story about high energy and insomnia was meant to demonstrate the episode of a mood disorder. And honestly, I can’t even blame the doctor who got himself in such trouble. He was kind, not vindictive, amazingly bright, but probably had these blips of high mood ending in drama and ruining him. I don’t think he could be held fully responsible for his messed up life because trust me, he looked absolutely normal. Probably sublimated into relationships, and books, and lectures, and whatnot.

Dr. F. reminds me of him. He probably sublimated his high energy into relationships, and work, and cryptocurrency, and what not. He probably looked fine during these times because this high energy was burned in his many ventures. I just wonder how low he’d fall when these episodes would finish.

I feel sorry for him because I imagine how much he had to work to undo the consequences of these episodes. And definitely, his patients now lost a doctor, too. Not only his family, or families, I should say. The hospital. Go find someone willing to move there and take over his pile of work.
 
al66pine said:
Ct. Order: Pay... "Until Death of Husband" Any Family Law practitioners around?

Snipped for focus @nhmemorymaker Your underscored phrase--- "until death of husband" is a good point, if your point is --- seems like his former wife got "short-changed" in a manner of speaking because she may have received only one month's payment (or possibly none), because of that provision.

Court orders for a spouse 1 to --- make payments (however characterized) to spouse 2 until-spouse-2-remarries --- are not uncommon. Ditto, pay until further-order-of-court.
IDK about until-husband’s-death clause. Is it standard choice in Word template for prop. division order?
Did her atty argue against or object to the until-husband’s-death clause?

IOW HOW or WHY was that clause inserted in the Div/Prop & Debt order?
Calling any and all Family Law practitioners to weigh in. And others too.

I wonder if she held a life ins. policy on his life, to hedge against a verrry unlikely death at his age and general circumstance, a policy w that would pay $ comparable to the $ he was obligated to pay while alive.
Would the Dis/Mar. prompt a wife to buy a L. Ins policy? Would atty advise a soon-to-be former wife to buy such a policy?

Welcoming correction or clarification, esp’ly from our legal professionals.

NOT saying or even suggesting his former wife did anything nefarious. With Dr. F’s tragic death, regardless of its manner, seems she may have been “short-changed” financially due to circumstances beyond her control. She must be going thru a lot now.

And those children, left without their Father. Sad. Sad. Sad.

Imo.
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Yes. Your expounding equals my underlining!
There is an overwhelming campaign of the "family"to uphold this man's reputation and persona of perfection. Why?

So many people have been hurt and affected. I feel the most empathy for the first wife.

I wish to hell, we could hear anything from LE, and not just <modsnip> Richard.
 
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?!? said:
This one shows that there may be those with an ax to grind vis-a-vis Alitin:

"Now, Forsyth says that he and his brother, with whom he co-founded Alitin, are working to reimburse customers, and are taking on debt to do it. When Alitin sold most of these coins, he said, bitcoin was worth just $80 a pop. Now, one bitcoin is valued at over $1000 USD, meaning that Forsyth will have to reimburse thousands of dollars to people who initially only paid hundreds for their coins.
For this reason, Forsyth said that Alitin will only be giving out refunds for the next month, which is sure to anger any customers left out."

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Bringing forward your post # 133. Very interesting. JMO
 
The subject of Life Insurance has come up.

At this point, I don't think we know if there was any Life Insurance on JF or not.

I found an interesting article detailing Life Insurance. Here are some highlights.
.....
Although you cannot take a life insurance policy out on just anyone, you can take a life insurance policy out on another person under certain circumstances. Life insurance is typically purchased to provide financial security to dependents or beneficiaries in the event of an untimely death of an insured individual. To purchase a policy on another person, you must have their consent while simultaneously proving that their loss could put a negative strain on your current financial situation.
.....
When purchasing a life insurance policy, there are three parties involved:


  • Policyholder: The policyholder is the owner of the policy, makes premium payments and is authorized to make changes.
  • Insured: This is the person whose life is insured by the policy. The policy’s death benefit will typically be paid out upon the insured’s death, given the death occurs within the policy period and there is no evidence of fraud, criminal activity or non-payment of premium.
  • Beneficiary: This is the person or people listed on the life insurance policy who will receive the death benefit when the insured dies. Beneficiaries can also be trusts, estates or organizations.
.....
It is possible to take out life insurance on someone else only if there is some relationship between you, such as a business partner, spouse or parent — and only if the person being insured consents to a life insurance policy being taken out on them.
.....
However, you must be able to demonstrate that the person’s earning potential impacts your life. For example, you likely will not be able to take out a policy on a friend whose finances do not have any affect on your life or everyday wellbeing. However, you can probably take out a policy on a spouse whose income you rely on since their death could cause a financial hardship on your life
.....
www.bankrate.com

Can you take a life insurance policy out on anyone? | Bankrate

Bankrate explains when you can take a life insurance policy out on someone else.
www.bankrate.com

There is much more detail in the article, but you get the gist. There might have been several people that could have had policies on JF.

JMO

Pardon my formatting!
 
snubenergy said:
How common is it for LE to not seek help from the community in cases like this? You'd think they would have made the blurry white suv video or an image public to seek tips?
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If they already know who it is, or don't think the public could help, they won't seek tips.

But it's hard to discern LE sometimes, they can be a 'black box'. We just have to shrug and wait and see what they do.
 
This is perhaps a stretch, but we have seen something like this before. Could this possibly be a suicide disguised as a murder? I just saw a case on Forensic Files that put the idea in my head, but there are also other stories in this vein. I’m not really for or against this idea, it just came to mind.
 
G.Keelie said:
This is perhaps a stretch, but we have seen something like this before. Could this possibly be a suicide disguised as a murder? I just saw a case on Forensic Files that put the idea in my head, but there are also other stories in this vein. I’m not really for or against this idea, it just came to mind.
Click to expand...
I’ve thought this too.
 
G.Keelie said:
This is perhaps a stretch, but we have seen something like this before. Could this possibly be a suicide disguised as a murder? I just saw a case on Forensic Files that put the idea in my head, but there are also other stories in this vein. I’m not really for or against this idea, it just came to mind.
Click to expand...
I saw that same episode the other night!!!
It was crazy.

I won't throw suicide out yet, but I am leaning towards murder at this time.

But good thought as I remember the episode and the reason why....but we dont know who beneficiaries are but that could come in to the scenario.
 
G.Keelie said:
This is perhaps a stretch, but we have seen something like this before. Could this possibly be a suicide disguised as a murder? I just saw a case on Forensic Files that put the idea in my head, but there are also other stories in this vein. I’m not really for or against this idea, it just came to mind.
Click to expand...
I agree, the facts are murky.

But how did JF get from Cassville to Beaver Lake?

IMO, there had to be at least another person involved.

JMO
 
Puzzles8 said:
I agree, the facts are murky.

But how did JF get from Cassville to Beaver Lake?

IMO, there had to be at least another person involved.

JMO
Click to expand...
Yes, the scenario seems unnecessarily complicated if one is trying to fake a murder. That can be accomplished without the victim getting assistance from someone or staging his car many miles from the location of his death.

I wondered the same, but kept wondering why he would do it. Anything is possible, but I doubt it was that.

I also think LE has a fairly good idea of what happened. They might be getting help from federal agencies.
 
Relying on Life Insurance Provided thru Spouse's Employment?
bestill said:
Even if he didn't have a personal life insurance policy wouldn't he have one through his employer? I would think that would be included in any physician pay package. JMO
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@bestill If post suggests, a spouse can rely on spouse's employment-based life ins or 'personal' policy as a 'back-up' for post-Dis/Mar. payments, I wonder if that's what an atty, financial advisor, or CPA would advise. If I am misunderstanding post, my apologies.

Briefly, what if a spouse changes the beneficiary designation on employment-based life ins policy or 'personal' life ins policy, to someone other than the spouse?

Not at all briefly.
Yes, IF Dr. F was an employee of hosp, not an independent contractor, seems likely imo, that some life ins coverage would be part of benefit package, either at no cost to Dr. F or at low-ish group rates. Typically the employee who designates a beneficiary to receive the death benefits, can change the beneficiary at any time and AFAIK, the life ins. co. would not notify the previous beneficiary, that he or she is no longer the designated beneficiary.

Speaking GENERALLY, a spouse (say, a wife) may buy a life ins policy on husband, pay premiums, hold the policy as the owner, and designate self as beneficiary to receive death benefits. Doing that assures wife that if husband changes beneficiary to someone other than her (perhaps or likely, without her knowledge), that she will receive the policy proceeds on his death.

Also in contemplating other unpleasant but foreseeable circumstances, a wife may not want to rely in husband's employment-based policy, so may want to buy & own a policy --- what if employer drops life ins coverage as employee benefit; what if husband changes jobs and can't pass med. exam for new employer's carrier's coverage; what if husband suffers debilitating illness or is injured in accident, leaving him unable to work; etc?
And ditto re reverse--- husband wanting policy on wife.

Any of these "what-ifs" could happen even in a stable, happy marriage. When a couple is involved in Dis/Mar, husband may change beneficiary from wife to someone else, for any number of reasons.

Still speaking gen'ly, not to this case, NOT suggesting Dr. F (if hosp provided life ins coverage to him) did change beneficiary or that he changed it without her knowledge.

IDK, have no clue. Just saying a person may decide not to rely on spouse's life ins (for potential payment on death) thru employment based coverage. Some people do; some don't.

A covert change of beneficiary may be a risk even w spouse's 'personal' life ins policy.
imo

I cannot imagine the grief & stress his former wife is enduring in these tragic circumstances. And the children. And other family members.
 
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From Daily Mail:
"EXCLUSIVE: Brother of ER doctor found dead in Ozarks lake slams claims he was living in RV because he couldn't afford $19,000-a-month alimony for eight children"
Tealgrove said:
And yet this same brother stated weeks ago money was not a problem.
So what’s the real story? Moo
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@Tealgrove On first seeing that & recalling brother's previous stmt, I was scratching my head, like you.

Then reread it 3x before comprehending ----
Brother SLAMMED others who CLAIM Dr. F could not afford, etc. So both stmts by this brother are consistent, but the story's phrasing seemed confusing at first glance. Hope this helps.

ETA: slight clarification.
ETA #2: adding link
Brother of doctor found dead in Ozarks speaks out over alimony claims June 9
 
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Suicide. Are Life Ins Policy's Death Benefits Payable?
Charlot123 said:
... life insurance, ....
.... suicide probably means loss of life insurance payments… or not? Or does it depend on how long ago was it purchased?
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snipped for focus @Charlot123 Good question about whether life ins co. pays death benefits if death was a suicide. Addressing only this part of your post. BTW, NOT expressing an opinion about the manner of Dr. F'S death, not saying it was a suicide, IDK.

MO.'s statute*
1. If exclusion provision is stated in policy, life ins co may exclude liability for death as a result of suicide IF suicide occurs within ONE YEAR of policy issuance.
IOW, if suicide occurs within one yr after policy is issued, ins. co is not obligated to pay the death benefit (sometimes called "face value" but not technically accurate).
2. If life ins policy contains ^exclusion^ (if death occurs within one year of issue, co. does not pay death benefits), then ins co. must promptly REFUND all premiums paid.
imo

So, as you posted Chalot123, it depends on time elapsed btwn policy issuance & the suicide.
Welcoming correction or clarification, esp’ly from our ins. or legal professionals.

________________________________
* "376.620. Suicide, effect on liability — refund of premiums, when. — 1. Any life insurance policy... issued or delivered in this state may exclude or restrict liability ... for death as the result of suicide in the event the insured, while sane or insane, dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of the issue... Any such exclusion or restriction shall be clearly stated in such policy,..." sbm
"2. Any life insurance policy... which contains any exclusion or restriction under subsection 1 of this section shall also provide that in the event the insured dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of issue of such policy,... that the insurer shall promptly refund all premiums paid for the excluded or restricted coverage on such insured." sbm
^ 376.620
 
al66pine said:
Relying on Life Insurance Provided thru Spouse's Employment?

@bestill If post suggests, a spouse can rely on spouse's employment-based life ins or 'personal' policy as a 'back-up' for post-Dis/Mar. payments, I wonder if that's what an atty, financial advisor, or CPA would advise. If I am misunderstanding post, my apologies.

Briefly, what if a spouse changes the beneficiary designation on employment-based life ins policy or 'personal' life ins policy, to someone other than the spouse?

Not at all briefly.
Yes, IF Dr. F was an employee of hosp, not an independent contractor, seems likely imo, that some life ins coverage would be part of benefit package, either at no cost to Dr. F or at low-ish group rates. Typically the employee who designates a beneficiary to receive the death benefits, can change the beneficiary at any time and AFAIK, the life ins. co. would not notify the previous beneficiary, that he or she is no longer the designated beneficiary.

Speaking GENERALLY, a spouse (say, a wife) may buy a life ins policy on husband, pay premiums, hold the policy as the owner, and designate self as beneficiary to receive death benefits. Doing that assures wife that if husband changes beneficiary to someone other than her (perhaps or likely, without her knowledge), that she will receive the policy proceeds on his death.

Also in contemplating other unpleasant but foreseeable circumstances, a wife may not want to rely in husband's employment-based policy, so may want to buy & own a policy --- what if employer drops life ins coverage as employee benefit; what if husband changes jobs and can't pass med. exam for new employer's carrier's coverage; what if husband suffers debilitating illness or is injured in accident, leaving him unable to work; etc?
And ditto re reverse--- husband wanting policy on wife.

Any of these "what-ifs" could happen even in a stable, happy marriage. When a couple is involved in Dis/Mar, husband may change beneficiary from wife to someone else, for any number of reasons.

Still speaking gen'ly, not to this case, NOT suggesting Dr. F (if hosp provided life ins coverage to him) did change beneficiary or that he changed it without her knowledge.

IDK, have no clue. Just saying a person may decide not to rely on spouse's life ins (for potential payment on death) thru employment based coverage. Some people do; some don't.

A covert change of beneficiary may be a risk even w spouse's 'personal' life ins policy.
imo

I cannot imagine the grief & stress his former wife is enduring in these tragic circumstances. And the children. And other family members.
Click to expand...

Deleted
 
al66pine said:
Suicide. Are Life Ins Policy's Death Benefits Payable?

snipped for focus @Charlot123 Good question about whether life ins co. pays death benefits if death was a suicide. Addressing only this part of your post. BTW, NOT expressing an opinion about the manner of Dr. F'S death, not saying it was a suicide, IDK.

MO.'s statute*
1. If exclusion provision is stated in policy, life ins co may exclude liability for death as a result of suicide IF suicide occurs within ONE YEAR of policy issuance.
IOW, if suicide occurs within one yr after policy is issued, ins. co is not obligated to pay the death benefit (sometimes called "face value" but not technically accurate).
2. If life ins policy contains ^exclusion^ (if death occurs within one year of issue, co. does not pay death benefits), then ins co. must promptly REFUND all premiums paid.
imo

So, as you posted Chalot123, it depends on time elapsed btwn policy issuance & the suicide.
Welcoming correction or clarification, esp’ly from our ins. or legal professionals.

________________________________
* "376.620. Suicide, effect on liability — refund of premiums, when. — 1. Any life insurance policy... issued or delivered in this state may exclude or restrict liability ... for death as the result of suicide in the event the insured, while sane or insane, dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of the issue... Any such exclusion or restriction shall be clearly stated in such policy,..." sbm
"2. Any life insurance policy... which contains any exclusion or restriction under subsection 1 of this section shall also provide that in the event the insured dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of issue of such policy,... that the insurer shall promptly refund all premiums paid for the excluded or restricted coverage on such insured." sbm
^ 376.620
Click to expand...

Thank you. Helpful, and makes sense.
 
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