MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #10

[HatesSociopaths]

I think the custody issue with JI and him being "ruthless" about it could be interesting to explore. This may be the motive to stage a kidnapping after the accidental death - to avoid losing his son to the mother of the child because of their negligence with Lisa. MOO.

 

[Renea]

I think the custody issue with JI and him being "ruthless" about it could be interesting to explore. This may be the motive to stage a kidnapping after the accidental death - to avoid losing his son to the mother of the child because of their negligence with Lisa. MOO.

Good one!!!!! Good Call!!!

 

[Patty G]

I'm looking at my windows here (the ones with screens.) I'm trying to figure out how the screen would be so bent that the window wouldn't close. :waitasec:

The window would have to be open, and the screen pushed so far in that the frame would block the window from sliding down. At least that's how my windows work.

The presence of the screening itself would just move out of the way. The frame would have to be what was blocking it.

It would be the screen-frame that was bent in enough so that the window did not close. When I say "screen", I mean the entire screen with frame. :blushing:

 

[EllaMae]

Whilst also sitting, I'm tilting at a 60/40, "somebody in the house knows," angle, so if I topple to either side, somebody help me back up!

I'll be glad to give you a hand. Of course...I might topple with you, so we'd both need help.

This case is so strange. I usually know right off the bat because my gut instinct is very well honed, and I'm almost always right when I listen to it. I just cannot get a handle on this one, and I have no strong feelings about the parents one way or the other.

I do think Debbie has been criticized for things that have no bearing on the case, and that makes it harder to see her as guilty of harming a child she so obviously cherished. Jeremy is just hard to peg either way because he's sort of withdrawn. But I understand that too.

Obviously the cops know something more than we do that makes them target the Mom. But they've been wrong before too...


UGH! Round and round it all goes in my head!

Where is that precious little girl? It's been so long now that I'm losing hope for her well-being.

 

[Wishbone]

Respectfully edited for space.

Thank you for your thoughtful, poignant post, and welcome to Websleuths. While some of the parents' mannerisms during interviews are troublesome to me, I won't jump to the conclusion that either of them deliberately hurt precious little Lisa. I'm leaning towards an unfortunate accident that resulted in the child's death, and the parents are reluctant to admit what happened or who was responsible. If DB gave an accidental overdose of cold medication to Lisa, she will carry the guilt for this unfortunate incident for many years. Let's keep this family in our thoughts and prayers.

How does one simply discard the body of their child to cover an accident? I personally will never be able to answer that question as I could not live with myself if I threw away my child to rot somewhere accident or not.

 

[vasportsmom]

I had to stop to bake & decorate a cake for my son's gf's b-day and now I am 20 pages behind! What is going to happen when I stop to cook dinner? Is there an audio version of this thread so I can take my laptop to the kitchen with me and listen while I cook?

 

[tlcya]

Addressing the "ruthless" comment made by Mr. Irwin's son's mother's family member.

Perhaps LE has contacted them (family of Dad's ex). When people break up and custody is being fought about, I can't imagine the person left without custody has happy feelings about it. Nor do I imagine does the family.

In a custody battle there is always a winner and a loser. The court opted to give Mr. Irwin full custody and the mother of the child is said by her family to live out of state. (ETA this portion: The court apparently awarded that custody to Mr. Irwin. Only the court knows what went into that decision. We do not know the child's mother or anything about her so it is impossible to know what facts the court considered, but it is a sure bet it considered some.)

I am not willing to look askance at Mr. Irwin over possible sour grapes regarding a lost custody battle for the child in question.

I am also willing to bet that LE knows the back story of this relationship and are judging what they are told accordingly, with all those facts in mind.

Unfortunately, we do not have those same facts.

 

[saba]

Unbelievable to me that LE hasn't contacted them. Picturing Jeremy as "ruthless" and it is giving me cold chills.

Still waters run deep.

I'm not sure that Jeremy would have a good shot at custody if these two broke up. According to some of the poster-lawyers last night, Sean Bradley is Lisa's legal father even though Jeremy is the biodad because Lisa was born during the marriage. It could be established otherwise in the Bradley's divorce or maybe elsewhere, but so far it hasn't been done. It's weird.

 

[DairyGirl]

Whilst also sitting, I'm tilting at a 60/40, "somebody in the house knows," angle; if I topple to either side, somebody help me back up!

I don't even know where I am right now. I don't think I have ever been as conflicted about "who dun it" in a case before. I can easily see it happening either way. Has bizarre as a stranger abduction sounds I have seen stranger. Same with all the seeming coincidences in this case.
I have seen cases where I was sure the parents were behind it and it turned out they had nothing to do with it, and vice versa.
On one hand, the baby seems very cared for and the parents seem truly grieving. On the other hand, the odds of a someone outside the home doing all those things seems remote.
However this plays out nothing will surprise me. Unless it is a real surprise, if that makes sense.

 

[cluciano63]

I can think of several reasons for DB to still be married, one of which is health insurance. Her STBE may have better coverage than JI can currently provide as an electrician. I've had several friends who have not pursued an all out divorce for this very reason. And I'd hardly call them women with checkered backgrounds, as DB has been in some places. If the STBE is willing and able to keep her on as a dependent, where's the problem? All is MOO.

I was answering a post that suggested the reason they named some women who cheated on their husbands as possible suspects is that maybe they were asked about people with "bad character"...

 

[IAM]

I am curiouse if the outside light was on (Jeremy said all the lights were on) It would not make sense for the outside light to be off and the inside lights to be on, would it? Now, that would be a pretty brazen perp to enter a brightly lit house and yard at the FRONT of the house where neighbors or anyone driving by could see them so well. Just too ODD to comprehend.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Another weird thought: Why would anyone who is abducting a child light almost all the lights in the house? Wouldn't this increase the chances of anyone being able to see inside of the house? The husband could have come home at any point, assuming the abductor knew the people who lived there and their routine. What if the husband was going out for a drink that night or meeting friends? Either the person who did this knew the husband was at work and when he would be home or it's totally random and the abductor did all sorts of crazy things that would normally wake someone up (my opinion) or this is an inside job. Tampering with a window would make noise, and the window is facing the street. Was the porch light on too? I heard that the husband stated that there was more than one window open when he got home. Anyone remember that?

Yes. I said that from the very beginning. Why light up the house and take a chance waking someone up! Even if a kidnapper KNEW their routine they would know someone was sleeping and lights would wake them.

 

[girlinblue]

I'm riding the fence on this one too. But all things considered - the lie detector test failure, etc - makes me wonder if something else is going on. I said previously that just because the mother is lying doesn't mean THIS is what she's lying about. She could have done something that night (another man over, left the kids alone for a bit) that she doesn't want people to know. Her emotion just seemed so...real. And the fact that the older two kids are safe and sound is sticking out to me. I keep going back to that. Parents who get rid of their kids more often than not do them all or it is the older children. My own observation is that the younger children are the safer, the ones left behind or unharmed. So it's strange to me.

My gut feeling is that Lisa is alive. I don't know why. But here's a scenario that occurred to me last night when I was having an insomnia fit - what if mom gave the baby away? Whether for money or out of stress. No one knows that she did and it's spun out of control. It would explain some of the weirder behavior and inconsistencies, and why she seemed so genuinely upset. Guilt, carrying the knowledge around by herself, who knows.

Just a thought I had.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Good one!!!!! Good Call!!!

Thanks. If this is what happened, an accidental death, I really question if the burning dumpster could have anything to do with it? I mean, if I accidentally killed my kid, there is no way I could do that, no matter what problem I was trying to solve. I think they would bury it, and nearby. MOO.

Maybe they were burning evidence of the crime.

 

[In da Middle]

I think the custody issue with JI and him being "ruthless" about it could be interesting to explore. This may be the motive to stage a kidnapping after the accidental death - to avoid losing his son to the mother of the child because of their negligence with Lisa. MOO.

Ruthless could also be as simple as he even had the nerve of filing for custody. The court records do not reflect a 'ruthless' call. They seem very short and concise. Many 'ruthless' child custody cases I am aware of have pages and pages of docket calls.

 

[Knox]

Thanks!
Does it look like the person trying to get through the window is being helped? Or standing on something? My old eyes just can't make out the details

I thought it looked like a landscaping rock underneath the window?

 

[mrye4709]

Shouldn't all of this have been done already? They should have never let media in that house if they weren't done. I know they may think of something later and go check it, but just now checking the window like this? Makes me wonder if they were just looking at mom and mom only.

 

[wfgodot]

I'll be glad to give you a hand. Of course...I might topple with you, so we'd both need help.

This case is so strange. I usually know right off the bat because my gut instinct is very well honed, and I'm almost always right when I listen to it. I just cannot get a handle on this one, and I have no strong feelings about the parents one way or the other.

I do think Debbie has been criticized for things that have no bearing on the case, and that makes it harder to see her as guilty of harming a child she so obviously cherished. Jeremy is just hard to peg either way because he's sort of withdrawn. But I understand that too.

Obviously the cops know something more than we do that makes them target the Mom. But they've been wrong before too...


UGH! Round and round it all goes in my head!

Where is that precious little girl? It's been so long now that I'm losing hope for her well-being.

Yes, exactly, agreeing on all counts. Especially the "round and round it all goes in my head!"

Baffled. That's me. I go to bed thinking, "It's the family," and wake up thinking, "No, it can't be."

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Are there before/after photos of the baby's room? TIA.

 

[essies]

Front of home-computer room window
Officers attempting to enter window
backyard of home