MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #4

[Peliman]

Hi Peliman, in one of the articles today I read LE and Federal Investigators. I've read so many that I don't know if I can find it but there is one page that has a lot of info on it. I'll go see if I can find it if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Hello tblondy thanks..

Witholding comment on this case somewhat, just reading along. Those missing cell phones could prove to be a key in this case. I'd be somewhat surprised if CART wasn't invited.

 

[gwenabob]

I think it was made public that LE found "*advertiser censored*" on the computer of Elizabeth Smart's father. I could think of other examples if I took a few minutes. It's not uncommon.

I am nearly positive that was a baseless rumor that came out in the early days when lots of people were *positive* Ed Smart was responsible for his daughter's disappearance.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

You're correct, no one can be forced to cooperate with LE. But these parents did cooperate and then stopped. Anything they have said can be used against them. There have been successful prosecutions without a body being recovered.



JMO

Yes, there have been a few. But they were not based on the failure of a witness to "cooperate". I'm not sure what you're saying here. But to suggest that there will be "criminal prosecutions" against these parents based on their "failure to cooperate" is, in my (professional) opinion...well, dead wrong.

Until we know why they backed off, we need to be careful drawing conclusions. In my opinion, as everyone likes to say....

 

[eileenhawkeye]

In a case where the child is kidnapped from the house, the parents will always be looked at first. It's important for the parents to cooperate so LE can clear them, and can move on to the next ring of the circle.

 

[tiredblondy]

Hello tblondy thanks..

Witholding comment on this case somewhat, just reading along. Those missing cell phones could prove to be a key in this case. I'd be somewhat surprised if CART wasn't invited.

Here is the link to the last timeline Shelby1 did I think. There's a couple news tidbits that have happened since then but this is the jist of it. There are a lot of good links to the actual information, etc.

Don't know about CART but thought I read or heard one of the news announcers say the police and federal investigators, etc...but can't be sure..

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7197271#post7197271"]MO MO - AMBER ALERT- Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #4 - Page 24 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Lots to read there..

 

[MyBelle]

If a case is becoming high profile, then I don't blame the parents for getting someone to help them deal with all the media. It's better than having dozens of media outlets calling the house. Erin Runnion, who was completely uninvolved in the murder of her daughter Samantha, had a media relations person.



Source: http://www.rms-biz.com/joyfulchild.html

The media isn't going to stop calling the parents just because they've designated a spokesperson.

The media relations person did not help find Samantha.

I don't view the police or any law enforcement agency as the enemy in cases of missing children. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, there have been a few. But they were not based on the failure of a witness to "cooperate". I'm not sure what you're saying here. But to suggest that there will be "criminal prosecutions" against these parents based on their "failure to cooperate" is, in my (professional) opinion...well, dead wrong.

Until we know why they backed off, we need to be careful drawing conclusions. In my opinion, as everyone likes to say....

I didn't say Lisa's parents will be prosecuted. My point was that their failure to cooperate could be held against them in the future.

JMO

 

[Leomoon80]

:seeya: Hi Leo, haven't seen you in a while. Could be we've not been following the same cases.

nice to bump into you here blondy.

Remembering tonight the Sabrina Aisenberg case.....similar too, only the mother couldn't or wouldn't allow herself any tears unlike this mom.


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/aisenberg_sabrina.html

 

[Dr. Know?]

You're thinking of Susan Smith? She didn't fail her poly but it was inconclusive and LE took it from there because she still spoke to them.

JMO

Yes, that was her name. I'm young...oops. I'm talking about profiling the parents to see their sincerity while pleading for their child to be returned. Just something I noticed and wanted to put out there. Now I'll go read everything I've missed. jmo

 

[Just-a-Guy]

I didn't say Lisa's parents will be prosecuted. My point was that their failure to cooperate could be held against them in the future.

JMO

OK, understood. Let's see how this develops, obviously. We're all hoping for the same thing. It's not looking so good, but I know we all continue to hope...

 

[marge_rita]

Something stinks. The neighbor sees someone, supposedly a male, carrying a baby when it's pitch dark outside? How did the neighbor know the figure in the dark was a male or a female?

The 3 cell phones. Since when do kidnappers take a baby and then say -ohmy, let me take the phones too? A little farfetched. From what I've read, the families house sits back in an area that is private. Whoever took the baby knew the layout of the house.

Local news said the parents are not cooperating and they've hired a lawyer. The mom's sister said cops told the mom she failed the LDT.

imo

http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/131298609.html

But just after 9 pm Thursday, Jeremy Irwin's sister told media that the parents never stopped cooperating with authorities. She said the family thanked police for all their help and that the sole goal remained to bring Lisa home.

She also revealed that police told Bradley she had failed a lie detector test, but offered no evidence.

Young said the parents' information was of great assistance since they knew the child best. Before Thursday night, police had repeatedly said they did not consider the parents to be suspects. When asked if that had changed Thursday night, he repeated that police still have no suspects.

 

[tiredblondy]

Re-posting timeline before I rest my eyes again.


Prayers for baby Lisa and prayers for the family to do the right thing....no judgement from me yet, just prayers.


As always, hugs to you all!!

Lisa Irwin Timeline

Monday October 3, 2011

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.

UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.

3620 block of North Lister 64117

CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011

Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.

UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG


~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

_____________________________________________________________________



Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)

Father is electrician that works nights. Just started job on this night.--Jeremy

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz


Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)




http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.

**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”

**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.

**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.

***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...scussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4


Originally Posted by BeanE --thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM

Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM

Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM


http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg


"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.

Read more: [URL="http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG"]http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG[/URL]

Just wanted to bump this up, I hope this is the one I gave before...:innocent:

 

[MyBelle]

OK, understood. Let's see how this develops, obviously. We're all hoping for the same thing. It's not looking so good, but I know we all continue to hope...

I think the child is still alive and will continue to hope as well....

 

[Lera213]

OK, understood. Let's see how this develops, obviously. We're all hoping for the same thing. It's not looking so good, but I know we all continue to hope...

I am with you on that but to be honesty I'm hoping angry. Trying to sit on my fingers. LOL

 

[marge_rita]

So far LE isn't 'telling' us anything about evidence....one way or another. I always think physical evidence will be left in the home of a kidnapped child...........then I remember Jessica Lunsford. She was kidnapped from her bed and there was no evidence.

Haleigh Cummings was removed from her home and little to no evidence.
My heart aches for this baby.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The media isn't going to stop calling the parents just because they've designated a spokesperson.

The media relations person did not help find Samantha.

I don't view the police or any law enforcement agency as the enemy in cases of missing children. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

JMO

Erin did not have a spokesperson. She had a media relations person to help her deal with the press. The press would call the media relations person, not the parents. Don't you think they would rather deal with a professional than a grieving parent? I can't imagine that a parent who is looking for their missing child would have no time to answer all the calls from the media, find out what days work best, etc etc.

And I never said that I view LE as the enemy in missing children cases so why are you saying we'll have to "agree to disagree"? I didn't even mention LE in my post....

 

[MyBelle]

Erin did not have a spokesperson. She had a media relations person to help her deal with the press. The press would call the media relations person, not the parents. Don't you think they would rather deal with a professional than a grieving parent? I can't imagine that a parent who is looking for their missing child would have no time to answer all the calls from the media, find out what days work best, etc etc.

And I never said that I view LE as the enemy in missing children cases so why are you saying we'll have to "agree to disagree"? I didn't even mention LE in my post....

Media relations people are the same as spokesperson in the media where I spent my career. Really is a moot point because the only spokesperson for this family apparently is a member of the family, not a "paid professional."

JMO

 

[LaLaw2000]

I always hate it when the family either has a spokesperson or media consultant. I want to hear straight from the family.

MOO

 

[jadejazzkayla]

In a case where the child is kidnapped from the house, the parents will always be looked at first. It's important for the parents to cooperate so LE can clear them, and can move on to the next ring of the circle.

innocent people can not always be cleared by le no matter how hard they try.

this evening, a police spokesman wagered anyone to try to think of something that they haven't tried yet and if they have decided to try to squeeze mom -not because they have evidence against her - but because she was the last known adult to see lisa - i'm sure the parents would think they should be spending their resources on finding lisa and I don't blame them.

for the record - I don't think mom failed a lie detector and i don't doubt she was told she did.

 

[MyBelle]

So far LE isn't 'telling' us anything about evidence....one way or another. I always think physical evidence will be left in the home of a kidnapped child...........then I remember Jessica Lunsford. She was kidnapped from her bed and there was no evidence.

Haleigh Cummings was removed from her home and little to no evidence.
My heart aches for this baby.

From the reports in this case, it sounds as though one of LE's very first steps in this case was to search neighbor's homes. If that had taken place in the Lunsford case, she may have been found alive. I'd like to think LE has learned from previous cases what to do and what not to do.

JMO