GUILTY MO - Nicholas, 35, & Justin Diemel, 24, brothers missing, Clinton County, 21 July 2019 *ARREST* #2

[Warwick7]

I'm not sure that the Diemels had anything to do with the 100 calves after they sold them to Foster (my theory).

I'm not sure why JN brought up the Diemels at all in the conversation with Foster, other than make excuses for the calves originating from them not doing well. I don't know why JN mentioned to Foster that he owed JD a lot of money. IMO it must have involved a separate deal and a different herd. The Diemels told Foster of their problems with JN before visiting the farm.

I'm sure all this will get cleared up.

I'm thinking it will too. But whew, what a mess I can't make heads or tails of this now!

 

[Warwick7]

I understand that, doesn't mean that JN doesn't say "Hey, I know you guys gotta get on a flight soon so just wait here and I'm gonna run into the house and get it real quick" and then they have the phone call with their employee so they say everything is good because they think JN went in the house to get the money owed. Diemels then end the call with their employee and either immediately after that or sometime soon JN comes out of the house with no money and potentially a weapon. MOO. Just spitballin here.

Sounds like this very well could have happened. Also that call was at 11am and TM tried to call JD at 11:24am and he didn't pick up.

 

[Warwick7]

That's assuming that before they left on their trip that they knew they were being bilked out of money. If it's a normal occurence to visit these farms and receive funds owed to them, I could see a phone conversation taking place without them having to specifically say "yeah, we went inside to get us X amount of dollars". MOO

True, however it sounds like the phone conversations with Foster (even the bad check info) revealed that the brothers needed to go and check animals and retrieve payment. MOO

"Foster continues, "Then this last time I said, 'Well did you ever get a check or did you get paid?' And he said, 'Oh, they sent me a check but it wasn’t any good.' Something like that. And he was going to go down and basically beat his *advertiser censored* or whatever, but still, a normal response to somebody who owes him over a quarter million dollars."
Farmer's chilling story sheds light on man arrested in Diemel case

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Okay guys, please make this easy to understand in my simple mind. What do u think JN’s end game was here? Was he trying to raise cattle on a bargain basement budget, then sell the herds twice?

Whatever he was doing it couldn’t last long or end well from the sound of it. How long could this reasonably/realistically have gone on if the brothers hadn’t shown up?

 

[?mysterian?]

Okay guys, please make this easy to understand in my simple mind. What do u think JN’s end game was here? Was he trying to raise cattle on a bargain basement budget, then sell the herds twice?

Whatever he was doing it couldn’t last long or end well from the sound of it. How long could this reasonably/realistically have gone on if the brothers hadn’t shown up?

Sorry, I'm still trying to figure it all out myself. I don't know if JN expected the calves to gain weight and stay healthy just off his pasture (if he even had adequate pasture, which I doubt) or what. It's pretty obvious he's a failure at raising cattle and has been, so I can't figure out why he did it again once he was released from incarceration. IMO.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Uggg....I just remembered that JN was said to have ripped tags out of cows ears. Oh I wish I hadn’t remembered that. What a cruel .

 

[al66pine]

Possible Testimony at Trial?

MOO... yes I agree. The conversation(s) that were reported around 11am seemed to have implied that they were waiting for payment. I'm sure that the exact time-line and what was said will be presented to a jury at some point. MOO

@ Teleah Smith Thanks for your post.
Yes, some conversations may be presented to a jury (or to judge, if bench trial), if this eventually goes to trial.
At trial, Diemels' employee can testify as to what he said and the brother said on phone convo (do we know which brother?).
Is it possible during that convo Nelson was close enough to bro's phone, that employee heard what Nelson said, if anything? I wonder.

Otherwise the only info re Nelson-and-Diemels convo itself would come from Nelson ---
- if he testifies, doubtful, imo.
- totally unreliable as to truth and accuracy, and only self serving, imo.

 

[Turnuptime]

Uggg....I just remembered that JN was said to have ripped tags out of cows ears. Oh I wish I hadn’t remembered that. What a cruel ***.

It would be very unlikely that they were ripped out of the ears. Most tags are plastic and the plastic would have just been cut to remove.
https://www.amazon.com/Z-Tags-Multi...ncoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=53EV4R3SASAV415PMA3

 

[al66pine]

Nelson's End Game?

Okay guys, please make this easy to understand in my simple mind. What do u think JN’s end game was here? Was he trying to raise cattle on a bargain basement budget, then sell the herds twice?
Whatever he was doing it couldn’t last long or end well from the sound of it. How long could this reasonably/realistically have gone on if the brothers hadn’t shown up?

@Blondie in Spokane Thanks for your post.

A-1. Raise on the cheap? Yes.
A-2. Sell twice? No, more like he sold someone else's cattle as his own. Not cattle rustling by going on someone else's property, taking w'out owner permission, and moving their cattle to his own property.
W Nelson, cattle owner agrees/contracts to have him raise owner's cattle for some months/a year, sell at auction, then share sale proceeds.
The fraud arises post-auction when Nelson does not remit/arrange thru auctioneer to provide the owner's share of $$$ to the owner for whom he had raised cattle.

One of the three fraud counts resulting in his conviction was ^ this. Seems Diemel & Foster situations were headed in same direction, maybe w some of their cattle already sold, partially there, imo.
Crucial point of this fraud = not remit any sales proceeds due the owner, to owner.

A-3. How long, reasonably/practically? Until the next victim owner/participant sniffed out fraud. As your post says, can't end well.
jmo.

 

[indicolite22]

"Foster continues, "Then this last time I said, 'Well did you ever get a check or did you get paid?' And he said, 'Oh, they sent me a check but it wasn’t any good.' Something like that. And he was going to go down and basically beat his *advertiser censored* or whatever, but still, a normal response to somebody who owes him over a quarter million dollars."
Farmer's chilling story sheds light on man arrested in Diemel case

BBM. He surely racked up this debt pretty quickly. I wonder how many animals would that involve? Didn't he end up owing about 300k altogether the first time around when he was convicted?

 

[cass523]

It would be very unlikely that they were ripped out of the ears. Most tags are plastic and the plastic would have just been cut to remove.
https://www.amazon.com/Z-Tags-Multi...ncoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=53EV4R3SASAV415PMA3

The USDA inspector that visited Foster's farm, wrote in his report, "It is evident by the torn ears that the identification tags had been removed from several of the calves."

Edit to add:

"Slip the hook between the male side of the tag and the animal’s ear. Place the hook so that the blade encircles the stem of the tag.

Hold the handle and gently pull on the hook while moving it up and down in a twisting motion. The blade will slice through the stem. Do not tug too hard as this can tear the animal’s ear.
Apply antiseptic to the hole in the ear to clean it and prevent infection."

How to Remove Ear Tags

 

[?mysterian?]

The USDA inspector that visited Foster's farm, wrote in his report, "It is evident by the torn ears that the identification tags had been removed from several of the calves."

Edit to add:

"Slip the hook between the male side of the tag and the animal’s ear. Place the hook so that the blade encircles the stem of the tag.

Hold the handle and gently pull on the hook while moving it up and down in a twisting motion. The blade will slice through the stem. Do not tug too hard as this can tear the animal’s ear."

How to Remove Ear Tags

Yes, I remember reading that report in the previous thread.

There are inexpensive, humane ways to remove ear tags from cattle, IMO. Just another piece of evidence of the person JN is.

 

[indicolite22]

The USDA inspector that visited Foster's farm, wrote in his report, "It is evident by the torn ears that the identification tags had been removed from several of the calves."

Was there a legitimate reason for removing the ear tags? If not, could that mean that those weren't Foster's calves? Or could JN have sold some/most and dump the remaining ones at Foster's farm? I still can't get over the notion that the majority on the herd likely died while in JN's care.

 

[sluethlocal]

I thought of JN using the same deal with the Diemel brothers that he did with others in 2013-2014, where he had their cattle under his care for grazing and the Diemel brothers paid for all feed and vet bills. Then a deal, % when it came time to sell the cattle. And if he did sell some of their calves? Foster did receive some calves with their tags torn off, why would JN do that? But that still leaves the purchase of 100 cattle that we know of from the Diemel brothers, so I guess that taking care of, feeding deal only is not correct.

Who did Foster purchase the calves from. I read and listened to two different versions.

The first in the video where Foster says at the 1:25 mark, "Our arrangement was that I was going to purchase the calves, he was going to feed and raise them. Then when they got to weaning weight we were going to sell them and split the profit."

(Listening to that, I thought Foster bought the calves directly from the brothers, since we learned 100 were purchased from them.)

The second. "David Foster says he bought 131 calves from Garland Nelson in November. The Kansas City Star reports Nelson was to raise the calves and the two men would then sell them and split the cost."

(this today, Foster purchased the cattle from JN?)

If Foster knew he was being deceived by JN, why didn't he go to the police or call a lawyer back in May? He knew he was being conned, receiving only 35 of the 131 cattle and not knowing if JN did indeed sell them or if they did in fact die. Then doing his own investigation learning the details as to why JN was incarcerated.

Kansas farmer shares details about man connected to disappearance of two missing brothers from Wisconsin

Man details cattle deal involving missing Wisconsin brothers - WIZM 92.3FM 1410AM

Many unanswered questions here. IMO JN was playing a game. Possibly charging 2 for the price of one.

Nelson's End Game?


@Blondie in Spokane Thanks for your post.

A-1. Raise on the cheap? Yes.
A-2. Sell twice? No, more like he sold someone else's cattle as his own. Not cattle rustling by going on someone else's property, taking w'out owner permission, and moving their cattle to his own property.
W Nelson, cattle owner agrees/contracts to have him raise owner's cattle for some months/a year, sell at auction, then share sale proceeds.
The fraud arises post-auction when Nelson does not remit/arrange thru auctioneer to provide the owner's share of $$$ to the owner for whom he had raised cattle.

One of the three fraud counts resulting in his conviction was ^ this. Seems Diemel & Foster situations were headed in same direction, maybe w some of their cattle already sold, partially there, imo.
Crucial point of this fraud = not remit any sales proceeds due the owner, to owner.

A-3. How long, reasonably/practically? Until the next victim owner/participant sniffed out fraud. As your post says, can't end well.
jmo.

 

[sluethlocal]

Just another idea in my thoughts and maybe someone has already covered this.

A-1. Raise on the cheap? Yes. (Agree)
A-2. Sell twice? No, more like he sold someone else's cattle as his own. Not cattle rustling by going on someone else's property, taking w'out owner permission, and moving their cattle to his own property. (I believe he sold the Diemiels cattle to foster and did not notify Diemel's. Diemel's were being charged monthly for feed and care. Many unanswered questions and a tangled web that was weaved. IMO
W Nelson, cattle owner agrees/contracts to have him raise owner's cattle for some months/a year, sell at auction, then share sale proceeds.
The fraud arises post-auction when Nelson does not remit/arrange thru auctioneer to provide the owner's share of $$$ to the owner for whom he had raised cattle.

One of the three fraud counts resulting in his conviction was ^ this. Seems Diemel & Foster situations were headed in same direction, maybe w some of their cattle already sold, partially there, imo.
Crucial point of this fraud = not remit any sales proceeds due the owner, to owner.

A-3. How long, reasonably/practically? Until the next victim owner/participant sniffed out fraud. As your post says, can't end well. We are unknowing on most since only info is posted on mo case net and does not cover cattle fraud and bankruptcy. This site does provide clarity and facts. It seems he was in deep, considering the J4S business review I viewed which is in addition to Foster and Diemel's. It seems many of the cattle died due to neglect. A very sad situation. IMO

 

[Warwick7]

The USDA inspector that visited Foster's farm, wrote in his report, "It is evident by the torn ears that the identification tags had been removed from several of the calves."

Edit to add:

"Slip the hook between the male side of the tag and the animal’s ear. Place the hook so that the blade encircles the stem of the tag.

Hold the handle and gently pull on the hook while moving it up and down in a twisting motion. The blade will slice through the stem. Do not tug too hard as this can tear the animal’s ear.
Apply antiseptic to the hole in the ear to clean it and prevent infection."

How to Remove Ear Tags

Ewwww!
This makes me mad!

 

[Turnuptime]

Ewwww!
This makes me mad!

Some ear tags are lost when they get snagged on a fence or in brush. While JN may have removed them, there is no way the inspector could determine that from a ripped ear.

 

[al66pine]

When Were Diemels' Suspicions Raised? Nelson's Planning?

It seems like they may have known:
" I [Foster] had talked to Nick multiple times prior to him going missing," says Foster. "The last time I talked to Nick was July 5th, and then the previous time I had talked to him before that, I remember him saying that he had told Joey to sell the cattle to send him a check."
Foster continues, "Then this last time I said, 'Well did you ever get a check or did you get paid?' And he said, 'Oh, they sent me a check but it wasn’t any good.' Something like that. And he was going to go down and basically beat his *advertiser censored* or whatever, but still, a normal response to somebody who owes him over a quarter million dollars"
Farmer's chilling story sheds light on man arrested in Diemel case

@Teleah Smith Thanks for your post. ^bbm

July 21, Sun. ......... Diemels left WI home, went to MO, saw Nelson.
July 5, Fri. ............. Foster talked w D.
Pre July 5 convo ... F talked w D, who said N's ck, "wasn't any good."
Before ^..................1-2 wks after ck mailed, imo, ck returned NSF, imo.
How much time passed for N either to sell cattle or pretend to?
Before ^.................. Ds asked/told N to sell their cattle & send $.
Before ^ ................ Ds' suspicions were raised?

When were Diemels' suspicions first raised?
As early as .... ? What aroused suspicions?
As late as ..... June 21 to 28, when Ds asked/told N to sell, send ck?
As late as ..... post June 21-28 but pre-July 5, when ck returned NSF?

When did Nelson start planning his response? When Diemel told him to sell cattle? When (if) Diemel phoned re NSF check was returned? Sometime before D's in-person visit at farm? Or only after they arrived?

 

[Teleah Smith]

When Were Diemels' Suspicions Raised? Nelson's Planning?
When did Nelson start planning his response? When Diemel told him to sell cattle? When (if) Diemel phoned re NSF check was returned? Sometime before D's in-person visit at farm? Or only after they arrived?

The USDA report is from May and that is supposedly a few weeks after the 30 cattle were dumped at Fosters.

 

[sluethlocal]

Some ear tags are lost when they get snagged on a fence or in brush. While JN may have removed them, there is no way the inspector could determine that from a ripped ear.

This is a very good response and plausibility considering the malnourished state of the cattle. I believe it would be more fence than brush. We do have to consider JN past and the loss of approx 96 cattle owned by others this instance under his care. I have never seen such a disregard for cattle. The statement by TSF just does not pass logic test. JN was desperate and so far in he may of thought no other way out. JMO