MO - Police officer fatally shoots Vonderrick Myers in south St. Louis #2

[katydid23]

First, I initially stated I believe this will turn out to be a justified shooting and that's why I haven't paid as much attention to it. Having said that, I only posited where the community's best argument would come from. Having said that, to further the conversation:

First, hindsight doesn't matter. What articulable, particularized facts did the officer see related specifically to VM that gave him a reasonable suspicion that a crime was or was going to be committed? Did he see the ankle monitor and if so did he know what the terms of it's use were? Doubtful unless he was familiar with not only VM but VM's case. Did he see the gun before initiating the stop? Haven't heard that. They looked suspicious is NOT enough. Being in a high crime area (which some in the Shaw area would dispute) is not enough in and of itself. Obviously, being black isn't enough. Being a teen isn't enough.

Running before actually being stopped I think ultimately gives the reasonable suspicion. Had the cop tried to actually stop them first and then he bolted, might need more info but since he bolted before an actual stop took place, I think that's enough. All just MOO.

He never tried to stop them though. He looked and then decided to turn around and they bolted. If he saw an ankle monitor then he would be allowed legally to stop and talk to him. Because that means he is under house arrest. And that is just like being 'on parole.' He is out on bond. And a cop can question someone in that position. House arrest means one can only leave the home for necessities, like work and school and attorney meetings. Obviously, VM was doing none of the above.

 

[popsicle]

Not only are almost all of them recording but there is a shooter on the building everytime I watch. jmo

 

[reedus23]

I can't find it now, just looked. But VM's attorney answered some of those questions. He said that VM was [paraphrasing] : 'allowed to go out of the house for school, work, and meetings with his attorney and the security bracelet company. '

As far as I know, he was doing NONE of the above when he was out buying a sandwich w/his crew. Armed.

My friends son was under house arrest for a DUI and resisting arrest. He had to give the security company his work schedule and school schedule. He was even called at work occasionally to verify his presence. If he was not home by a certain time an alarm would go off and LE was allowed to go to his home and wait and arrest him if need be. Plus there is usually a GPS device on there so they can tell if u are where u are supposed to be.

eta: did VM even go to work or school?

But the only way any of that helps form a reasonable suspicion is if it were all known prior, including the terms set down by the Judge.

 

[branwynbreeze]

I have little respect left for DOJ. DOJ has reduced LE to babysitters of unruly spoiled brats who egg them on to spank them so they can go crying to mommy (DOJ). If DOJ is so dang concerned they can sent their own babysitters for crowd and let LE protect the other 10s of thousand residents. It's not as if protesters filed for permits, but in truth held a number of good people as hostages.

Closing businesses/streets off due to a few hundred is unfair to the thousands. When do their rights matter?

i wonder if doj will be able to review the decision - i never had a true understanding of their power.

apparently, from what i heard, it was doj - civil rights division - that allowed them/the protestors to cross the bridge & go onto slu's campus - when st louis cops wanted to stop them.

now i fully understand the handcuffs local l/e is working under after i read treehouses's article about holder's potential replacement (dated 10/14).

imo

 

[reedus23]

He never tried to stop them though. He looked and then decided to turn around and they bolted. If he saw an ankle monitor then he would be allowed legally to stop and talk to him. Because that means he is under house arrest. And that is just like being 'on parole.' He is out on bond. And a cop can question someone in that position. House arrest means one can only leave the home for necessities, like work and school and attorney meetings. Obviously, VM was doing none of the above.

Did you keep reading? The bolting gave the reasonable suspicion IMO as well. The ankle monitor...maybe once it is seen. People are allowed to leave the house for other things and at different times. It all depends on how the Judge crafts his/her order. There is no one size fits all. But I do think, regardless of the terms, once it's seen, it could arguably also give a reasonable suspicion.

 

[popsicle]

[h=1]Forensic evidence shows teen shot at St. Louis officer, police say[/h]
Gunshot residue tests and ballistics evidence show that Vonderitt D. Myers Jr. fired a gun at a police officer before being fatally shot, police and union officials said Tuesday.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_3dafbce7-22b0-5c9a-b7e5-98460279f135.html

 

[LambChop]

From what I think I heard he was doing online high school.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/article_cc12182d-3405-5bc2-8817-9d4c5ab1ebb2.html#.VDfOdNZfDkg.twitter

Myers completed summer school through Virtual Academy, but was dropped from the program on Sept. 9 after missing some days, Pierce said.
St. Louis Circuit Court records show Myers was in jail for several days after his arrest on the weapons charge and was released after posting $1,000 cash bond. As a condition of bail, Myers was fitted with a monitoring bracelet July 8. He could leave home for work, school, court appearances, meetings with attorneys and meetings with the private monitoring firm.

 

[popsicle]

Ballistics evidence also revealed three bullets that hit the ground where the officer was trying to take cover matched Myers' gun. A round found inside a car behind the officer was too badly damaged to be able to to match it to his gun, however, it did not match the type of bullets the officer fired, police said.

 

[branwynbreeze]

Actually, we don't know this as we do not have access to all witness statements. I would also add that it would be terribly naive of anyone here (not referring to you specifically, of course) to think that most LE do not swear frequently. I know many LE, but I do not know a single one who doesn't swear like a sailor.

To me it doesn't matter if OW cursed, he directed them to do something and they did not comply. I believe on ACLU website they advise to comply and document. It my seem a bit silly to file a report for cursing, but it would have been part of a paper trail showing disrespect to public.

 

[krimekat]

Actually, we don't know this as we do not have access to all witness statements. I would also add that it would be terribly naive of anyone here (not referring to you specifically, of course) to think that most LE do not swear frequently. I know many LE, but I do not know a single one who doesn't swear like a sailor.

LOL - there are no other witnesses to the initial encounter around Noon on Canfield Dr 9 Aug 2014 btwn MB/DJ & ODW except ODW & Dorian; otherwise, we'd have it available in MSM (not making this into an MB discussion but where are Piaget & the other CNN cutie?) where's Dorian?

LE who I know ( 3 on my City block & a Sheriff back home ) are educated & are professional on the job everyday. Swearing makes you ignorant/shows your ignorance IMHO. Where'd professionalism & personal accountability go? Dayum!

Now LE not on the job, yeah they swear like the rest of us :laugh: and have their own opinions

 

[katydid23]

But the only way any of that helps form a reasonable suspicion is if it were all known prior, including the terms set down by the Judge.

House arrest ALWAYS mean house arrest. It always means work or school or court. Nothing else. So him walking at night with his friends down the street would be suspicious if the cop saw an ankle monitor. He would absolutely have the right to stop him and ask if he was under house arrest.

If he was just innocently walking home from work, then no harm, no foul. But he is under house arrest so he should expect to be under scrutiny. That is the entire purpose of the house arrest system. It means INSTEAD of going to jail, which he is eligible for, we will give you the chance to be home instead. But freedom is limited. Supposedly.

 

[New1]

The mind set of these protestors: " shoots at police officer, officer shoots back, police are out of control." Go figure.

 

[krimekat]

I don't think someone should be aUTOMATICALLY rejected from employment because of prior arrest/conviction. SOME people should be given a second chance. I know people who had rocky pasts who have changed their lives around. Often it was drugs that derailed them and if they stay sober they are great employees and productive citizens.

But if someone has a history of violence, then I would hesitate to hire them for certain jobs.

I totally agree! Some people deserve at least a 2nd chance . . .

 

[SugarQueen]

Here's video of the protest Sat. night near VM's shooting spot in the Shaw neighborhood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg6219kEsw0#t=72

That is truly a disgusting display that the " peaceful protesters" put on. Vile, putrid language, no respect for authority, no sense of personal responsibility. One has to wonder what THEIR children will be like?

 

[krimekat]

The problem I see in VM's case is that he wasn't seen doing anything illegal when the officer initially spotted him and his two companions walking down, I assume, the neighborhood sidewalk at a reasonable hour. They weren't in the street were they? Did they fit the description of burglars that had just been called in? I don't think it's unreasonable for black guys in that somewhat yuppie area to want to evade LE on sight, but his/their flight is what alerted the officer and resulted in the chase. As it turned out VM was illegally armed and dangerous, but the officer didn't know that until later. Where I see the experienced officer's instinct proven true, most blacks imo would see a clear example of racial profiling, i.e. walking while black.

except that this City Police Officer who was off duty in a 2ndary job patrolling a beautiful/historic area of StL may have known he/VM was on house arrest with an ankle monitor but was out & about with 2 of the dudes who were with him earlier this summer & caused chaos for City PD! IMHO as a local that area is heavily patrolled and City LE knows who is who & what is what . . . VM should have been incarcerated for the episode this summer, therefore, he'd still be alive IMHO

StL & surround areas are running out of room ! We need an island to house these criminals IMHO (Chicago does, too -- I feel for my former City)

 

[katydid23]

So are these anarchists and communist inciters out of St Louis now? Or are they going to OCCUPY the area for awhile in tents?

 

[krimekat]

I'll say this. I am white, my husband is black, and we live in the St Louis area. My husband has been "harassed" by the police many many many times over the years. We call it walking/driving while black. The difference between my 40 year old husband and the "kids" today are my husband was taught how to respond when this happens. He doesn't take off running, he doesn't get an attitude, he respectfully hands over his ID and when they find out he is a fine upstanding citizen they let him go, and they are respectful to him. It sucks that it happens, but it does. I don't know how to change the police perception though. When you are in an city that is riddled with gangs, drugs, and murders you tend to stereotype everyone based on statics.

In the Bevo area Bosnian gangs are an issue, when cops see young Bosnian men acting suspicious they profile them as being a problem. In North City where black gangs are an issue, young black men acting suspicious make cops jump to conclusions. I can go on and on. I think the bottom line is sometimes LE stereotyping is what saves their and our lives.

Bravo -- post of the week! And thanks, neighbor!

 

[popsicle]

Matt PearceVerified account‏@mattdpearce
​

​

​

Here's the order for Vonderrit Myers' house arrest. Dumb question, but are you allowed to go out and buy a sandwich?

 

[krimekat]

He was not 'pursued' until they bolted and ran. The cop drove by them. He thought they looked suspicious. Vonderrick was wearing an ankle monitor and had a gun on him. So do you think he MIGHT have acted a bit suspiciously upon seeing the cop roll past and looking his way? I do.

The cop was doing his job. He thought they looked suspicious and THEY WERE hiding something. How can you blame him for picking up on the WRONGS and the crimes that VM was committing at the time the cop saw him? It was not because he was black, it was because he was acting like he was hiding something and then he cut and ran.

heck, do we know that the monitoring service was telling LE & security that someone was somewhere where he was not supposed to be ? Dayum, another lost soul

 

[popsicle]

St. Louis, MO Police ‏@SLMPD 2m2 minutes ago
Press Release, SLMPD Releases Gunshot Residue Lab Results From 10/8 Officer-Involved Shooting: