MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[Iona]

I wouldn't rule anybody out based only on apparent skin tone in a photo. Lighting and camera angle can make a huge difference, not to mention sun exposure, age of the film and how it was stored, etc.

True as a black woman,I would also agree, in death, as in life, our skin tones can vary greatly depending on sun, exposure, weather conditions etc.

 

[Iona]

"Unfortunately", Race White. DNA Status: Complete - Insufficient DNA for profiling
Horrible that we have a black girl with no head & a white girl with no body </3

Namus is great, but not perfect. It only records, what we humans interpret. Mistakes can be made, (As in the recent one , where the decadent thought to be a boy for over 15 years, was indeed a girl.)
Changed the whole investigation, and they were identified.

 

[Roselvr]

Namus is great, but not perfect. It only records, what we humans interpret. Mistakes can be made, (As in the recent one , where the decadent thought to be a boy for over 15 years, was indeed a girl.)
Changed the whole investigation, and they were identified.

You're talking about the Mendocino girls, Kerry and Francine. NamUs had nothing to do with Kerry being labeled a male. There was barely any DNA left in the remains. LE ended up getting the right info, someone here just happened to call them, they posted, I contacted NamUs, the RSA went out to speak to LE, it was changed.

 

[carbuff]

I don't think Iona meant Namus was at fault with the mistake. It's only as good as the information put into it though, so if that information is wrong, we and LE are going to be wrong.

I read a couple of days ago that if remains are unknown gender, they are treated as male for searches. I'm trying to find out if that's true and if so does that mean those remains are not compared against female DNA and dentals? I know there are remains listed with notations like "55% chance the victim was white". Are those remains being compared against missing people listed as non-white?


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[Iona]

I don't think Iona meant Namus was at fault with the mistake. It's only as good as the information put into it though, so if that information is wrong, we and LE are going to be wrong.

I read a couple of days ago that if remains are unknown gender, they are treated as male for searches. I'm trying to find out if that's true and if so does that mean those remains are not compared against female DNA and dentals? I know there are remains listed with notations like "55% chance the victim was white". Are those remains being compared against missing people listed as non-white?


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Carbuff,
Thanks for interpreting... That is exactly what I was saying. I don't't have a problem with Namus or any of the research tools that we use. I just want everyone to remember, that the information is only as valid as it was inputted , and that we as humans are prone to mistakes, so it bears mention, if it's close,and you have doubts, such as all the other stars aligning &#128521;, don't hesitate to question and question again .

 

[Roselvr]

News 4 Investigates: FBI taking fresh look at cold case of decapitated girl

The details are disturbing.

In a vacant house on Clemens Avenue, two men stumbled on a decapitated body in the basement.

&#8220;That was a post-mortem injury, removing her head,&#8221; said Burgoon.

She was an African American girl, between the ages of 8-11 but tall for her age, Burgoon says.

&#8220;She had two coats of red finger nail polish on her fingers,&#8221; said Burgoon.

Burgoon says the tag was cut out of her yellow sweater and her hands were tied with red and white rope. She was strangled, killed somewhere else four to five days earlier.

&#8220;You could see where there was trails of blood on the stone, where she was brought in there,&#8221; said Burgoon.

Detectives relentlessly followed up on missing children cases. They tracked down every lead, even the most bizarre.

&#8220;There were a lot of things that came in, but they never panned out. It was like a roller coaster,&#8221; said Burgoon.

Her head was never recovered and no one has ever claimed her.

There was a glimmer of hope, though, when her body was exhumed from Washington Park Cemetery in 2013.

Experts tested her bones hoping to pinpoint where she came from, but they discovered only that she was from somewhere in the southeastern United States.

Burgoon has already asked the FBI to rerun this case through their databases to see if any new hits come back on similar cases or missing children.

 

[Elainera]

I wonder whether maybe someone should go over all those leads that didn't pan out over the years once more to make sure nothing was overlooked or dismissed too quickly.

 

[Dogface]

This sad case is always on my mind. And I wish they would contact teachers in the area from that time and see if any of them recall a student suddenly dropping out, or perhaps a parent withdrawing a student and saying they had moved with another parent/grandparent or something of the sort.

 

[STANDREID]

Was it conclusively proven through DNA that she was African-American? There are many other ethnic groups who have dark skin (Native Australians-Southwestern Pacific Islanders-South Asians-South Indonesians-East Indian Ocean Islanders).

 

[Roselvr]

Was it conclusively proven through DNA that she was African-American? There are many other ethnic groups who have dark skin (Native Australians-Southwestern Pacific Islanders-South Asians-South Indonesians-East Indian Ocean Islanders).

Will be surprised if she's not

cropped for skin tone

 

[Alleykins]

I wonder if it were coastal southeastern untied states, like GA, NC or FL or more inland like WV or TN. It sounds like they weren't able to pinpoint more then a general area.

 

[Alleykins]

I'm sure someone has mentioned her before, but the only possibility I was able to come up with is Nikole Betterson, Her DNA status in NamU says underway. I wonder how long it's been hung up like that. https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2543 http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1971dfnv.html

 

[cvaldez1975]

I think something happened to Nikole that prompted dad and gf to leave the area.

 

[Alleykins]

I think something happened to Nikole that prompted dad and gf to leave the area.

The circumstances of her disappearance sound suspicious, for sure.

 

[Roselvr]

I just sent an email to her ME suggesting they reach out to journalists in the new isotope areas. I also suggested they look into DNA phenotyping to possibly build her a face from her DNA. Crossing my fingers they reply!

Aurora releases DNA-generated composite of suspect in 1984 slaughter of Bennett family - Parabon specializes in DNA phenotyping. It creates images that help police identify possible suspects of unsolved crimes.

Building a Face, and a Case, on DNA

At some point the Smithsonian redid her isotope testing to get different states, I haven't had a chance to look for an article but it's on her Doe net page. They did the same thing to another Jane Doe I follow. I am clueless how it goes from South to North.

Full Anthropology exam and isotope analysis completed by NCMEC and the Smithsonian. Advanced forensic testing of her bones has also suggested that the female was not originally from the local St. Louis area but possibly spent most of her childhood in the following states: Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Indiana, and West Virginia.

 

[Roselvr]

I'm sure someone has mentioned her before, but the only possibility I was able to come up with is Nikole Betterson, Her DNA status in NamU says underway. I wonder how long it's been hung up like that. https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2543 http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1971dfnv.html

Our Doe is listed as being African American, testing would have shown if she was mixed.

 

[Alleykins]

I think her skin is too light. At 2, her skin tone is pretty much set. I believe our Doe is full AA, testing would have shown if she was mixed

How do we get them to update her DNA? Do you know how long it may have been in this status?

 

[Dogface]

I reached out to a couple of sites that are specific to missing black people, hopefully they will do stories on this case and get some more attention so this girl can have her name back.

Am I the only one who feels she may be older than the age range? For some reason, the nail polish and sweater just make me think she might be a bit older. I'm not sure how it was for fashion at that time period, but I typically find young girl clothes, particularly sweaters, to not be v-necked.

 

[Moonwalker9]

If Vernon Brown was indeed the killer, wouldn't it be easy to find something tying him to the crimescene. In his residence, car, work etc. As far as I can recall, Vernon Brown lived in the area, killed children, decapitated some but he was a very deorganized killer and often captured red handed throwing evidence all over him. He was no genius but although a solid suspect, he never confessed and was eventually executed for another crime.

I believe whoever killed her lived, had lived or worked in the area. The abandoned house where she was found was far from the city center and it's highly unlikely that she was put there randomly. Her murderer knew that house was abandoned, maybe he had even worked there cause must have been there before, in order to place her in that cellar.

So, who is she, A little girl goes missing/is killed and nobody reports/claimed her. I found this very peculiar. Criminal investigators thought that her mom might have been a girlfriend to Vernon Brown. But what happened to her, she must have died also in that case? otherwise she must'be been looking actively for her. Any mother would do, rich or poor, black or white.

Either:

1. Her mom was killed by the same person, maybe her body was never found or police never found a connection to the girl. However, when I searched on nameus for missing african-american women that dissapeared at the same time I didn't a whole lot of connections.

2. Her parents were deceased already and she came to live/visit relatives in St Louis. Remember the DNA tests revealed she lived most of her life in the Ameican South far away from St. Louis. Maybe she was killed by her father/stepfather or someone in the immediate family. This could also be the reason why she was decapitated. They didn't want her identity to be revealed cause the person that did this was part of her family.

3. She was adoted, lived in an orphenage and recently came to the area, that's why nobody missed her. if so, there should probably be some records of girls that were adopted that year but it would take ages to check all those places in the American South.

However, her nails were polished and she was well nourished. This makes me think she came from a good home and just recently came to St. Louis. Since she was raped and killed her killer didn't want her identity to discoved since he most likely would be caught because of their connection. Was any DNA found from her killer?

Maybe this is far fetched but since she was pre-pubescent and considerably tall for her age Height: 4'10" to 5'6" is there a possability to narrow down the exact states she could've lived in and then ask students if they recall a tall black girl that suddenly vannished/moved and never was found again, around 1982-83. This is pretty much what happened when Tammy Alexander was identified. An old classmate went looking for her....

Would be good to know her exact height and the states she probably lived in...first i read the south then the midwest which means we're looking for a needle in a haystack. My best best is still that someone going looking for this missing classmate or that we find the connection to a family member in St louis. What about the social security number, can we truck black girls that age that haven't used their social security number since? That could also norrow down the search if it's possible to search like that.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Remember the DNA tests revealed she lived most of her life in the Ameican South far away from St. Louis. ...first i read the south then the midwest

If it is indeed Midwest/south, then I think St.Louis would still be in that range? I've always heard St.Louis and Missouri referred to as midwest or southern. Besides that though, I recall DNA had said she was from the east coast, but I might be thinking of q different case. Id have to go back and double check.


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