MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[Moonwalker9]

Initially they said she's from the south but additional analysis said she could also be from the Midwest. Don't know why they couldn't narrow it down. It would make things easier.

 

[TmmEye]

Initially they said she's from the south but additional analysis said she could also be from the Midwest. Don't know why they couldn't narrow it down. It would make things easier.

I doubt these isotopes are accurate, sadly. Recent identifications show the isotopes were usually WRONG.

 

[Onfortuneswheel]

I'm not sure I agree that no one could stumble on the location. Anybody who has lived in the poor part of a city--any city--knows that there are going to be empty buildings and deserted basements. All he'd have to do is poke around until he found an unlocked door. He could have scouted it out ahead of time.

The part of the city she was found in isn't close to any highways and it is north of Delmar. I'd be shocked if the killer wasn't a local.

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

Initially they said she's from the south but additional analysis said she could also be from the Midwest. Don't know why they couldn't narrow it down. It would make things easier.

I didn’t realize they later determined she was from the Midwest. Can you point me toward an article or some documentation that states this?

 

[carbuff]

The part of the city she was found in isn't close to any highways and it is north of Delmar. I'd be shocked if the killer wasn't a local.

I'm thinking semi-local myself. There are usually lots of in-between types of people in most areas. Besides transients and homeless people, there are people who are there for a few days or a few weeks, or who come through every few months visiting relatives, working construction, making deliveries, that sort of thing.

 

[Laughing]

I didn’t realize they later determined she was from the Midwest. Can you point me toward an article or some documentation that states this?

IDK how you feel about Wikipedia:

St. Louis Jane Doe - Wikipedia

scroll down to 2013 Exhumation for a bit about the isotope testing & results.

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

IDK how you feel about Wikipedia:

St. Louis Jane Doe - Wikipedia

scroll down to 2013 Exhumation for a bit about the isotope testing & results.

Thanks! Wikipedia is at least a good resource for source. But it’s from Namus. I wonder if this is a mistake or if there are other data available. I haven’t seen an article where the locations were revised, so what happened? I need to look into this. Between namus and the original article from 2014 on isotopic analysis shows she is possibly from anywhere.

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, isotopes don't have a great track record so far.

 

[Roselvr]

Are we positively sure she's even black? Decomposition could've changed her skin tone.

Shes African American. There's photos of her where she was dumped. She dudnt start decomposing.

Pics of her skin tone have been posted in this thread

 

[AlwaysCoffee]

I also don't believe she was anything other than Black. A lot of African American folks have paler skin on their palms, and this is consistent with what we can see in the crime scene. If the dark color was from decomposition, the palms would have started to darken, too.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I wonder if the head removal was due to her having a huge identifier like a large mole, scar, or deformity that could easily ID her. Could she have had mild down syndrome, a cleft palette, dysplasia, or another identifiable birth defect?

The decapitation doesn't make sense to me so that's why I'm coming to this conclusion. Usually, in cases I've seen with dismemberment, the killer usually dismembers completely for concealing the body, or cuts the hands off too to avoid fingerprint Identification; however, she was fairly young so they likely weren't worried about fingerprints. With the IDing of mother and child long time UID's, Bobby Whitt and Myong Cho, I wonder if she had a similar situation. I wonder if her mother is a UID as well.

The decapitation reminds me of Adam Walsh's murder in Florida in 1981. Crimes against children are absolutely the worst!

 

[Triss]

The decapitation reminds me of Adam Walsh's murder in Florida in 1981. Crimes against children are absolutely the worst!

Agreed.
I do believe she was decapitated to prevent her identification. Either that or the murderer wanted to hold on to her head for whatever reason. I know it sounds crazy, but then again anyone who kills a child is definitely crazy.

 

[TmmEye]

The killer may have kept the head as a trophy, or he may have even destroyed the head (like smashing the skull)

 

[Moonwalker9]

The main reason for the beheading in this particular case is to prevent identification. Obviously her fingerprints were not in any database and DNA was unheard of at the time, so beheading her was the easiest way to get away with it. By accident she was found by looters in that cellar just a few days after she was murdered and because of the cool wether in the celler she didn't decompose. Either the perp was related to her somehow or her identification would lead investigators to him so she was beheaded post mortem to hinder the investigation. This is the sole reason why she's not identified to this day.

 

[AlwaysCoffee]

I wonder if there may be any plans to use her DNA to generate an image of what she might have looked like in life, kind of like what they're doing for criminals such as John Miller who murdered an 8-year-old in 1988. Obviously, such an image can't predict things like glasses, scars, or poor dental care, but it can give us a basic face to work with.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I wonder if there may be any plans to use her DNA to generate an image of what she might have looked like in life, kind of like what they're doing for criminals such as John Miller who murdered an 8-year-old in 1988. Obviously, such an image can't predict things like glasses, scars, or poor dental care, but it can give us a basic face to work with.

Excellent idea Alwayscoffee! DNA Phenotyping is how we know Bobby Whitt was biracial asian instead of hispanic like originally estimated. We have his name now because of it. I think this new technology is incredible!

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

Here's the site for DNA Phenotyping: Parabon Shapshot. It explains more about how it works and has some examples of successful cases.

DNA Phenotyping - Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service

 

[carbuff]

There are many labs besides Parabon doing the same or similar analysis. There are so many exciting advances.

 

[RookieInvestigator]

I believe doctor's are required to report certain diseases/illness to the CDC or their state Health Dept...I wonder if spina bifida falls into that category...LE could contact the CDC and the Health Depts in the southern states (listed on the isotope results) to see if they have a person similar to the UID diagnosed with the disease...

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

I believe doctor's are required to report certain diseases/illness to the CDC or their state Health Dept...I wonder if spina bifida falls into that category...LE could contact the CDC and the Health Depts in the southern states (listed on the isotope results) to see if they have a person similar to the UID diagnosed with the disease...

Her spina bifida occulta may not have had any outward appearances or manifestations. This was discovered by a forensic anthro. after exhumation. The lack of fusion on the sacrum would be obvious when looking at the bone, but maybe not when she was alive or post-mortem at the time she was found.