MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[Roselvr]

Often undetected until an x-ray, but not always and we don't know if it was known or not.
It's all if, buts and a maybe. Not saying she had serious disabilities....but could have. It's worth considering, particularly IF she looked older but acted younger due to real age and/or potential intellectual disabilities. She has no one to quantify who she really is, describe her in any other way but through what facts we have.

Precocious puberty can alter bone age scans, usually based on how joints in hands are fused, a process triggered by pituitary responses undetecible to the eye. Puberty doesn't come on as a sudden flurry of hair and obvious development but there was reference by many others to her curves and height, which are often the first indictors of development, height particularly.

This doe has spina bifida and is Afro American - two factors that already put her in predisposition of precious puberty so it's a strong maybe and could alter perceptions of "who" we should be looking for.

We've just got to keep turning over stones until we find her name and reunite her with it.

I agree, we really can't say if she had symptoms or not. We have occult tethered spinal cord (OTC) which is similar to what she has, I knew something was wrong with me from a very young age. I used to walk; my leg used to go out on me, most times up our 2 flights of concrete steps; plus I had pain and an insect crawling feeling. The family doctor used to say my symptoms were growing pains. I would ask why neither of my siblings had it; he said because I was taller but I never bought what he was saying. I've had some form of back issues since 3 or 4 which really blew up in my 30's to where I'm totally disabled at 50.

My daughter born in 93 also has OTC; she was always really clumsy since she could walk. She was always falling. Her health crashed when she was a teen. Usually with OTC there are other spine issues but on the brain/ cervical end called Chiari Malformation where the brain bulges into the cervical spine due to a deformity. We finally figured everything out in 2011/ 2012. My 3 year old grandson also has OTC and Chiari Malformation.

Since we do not have her skull, we do not know if she had Chiari Malformation too.

I think she's one of these two girls or was never reported missing.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/magee_sherise.html - Sherise Magee, 20m, abducted by a family member from Las Vegas, NV, on August 1st 1975. Because she was quite young, she may have spent most of her life in one of the mentioned states. I have no idea which family member could have taken her, though.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/good_telethia.html - Telethia Goode, 7, disappeared while going to church on September 10th 1978 in Baltimore, MD. Maryland is close to West Virginia enough to show up as said state on isotopes.

I feel very strongly she is Telethia Goode. I tried to turn that match in a while ago and I have never heard anything back.Have they looked into Telethia Goode?

I'll follow up with Melissa to ask about Telethia because she's still not listed on the rule out list. Sharaun Cole's DNA is finished processing

I was told she was going to look into the suggestions and get them to the investigators on all of the cases. She was also looking into the exclusion of Sharaun Cole but was not able to tell public users information as to how someone is excluded. Some do, some don't.

Will ask about NamUs MP #4909 Sherise Magee

Kelly Staples is not in the ruled out list. Has she been checked?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2893/2

Someone would have to find her family to get DNA

02-28-2016

Sent an email to NamUs. Submitted Telethia Good and asked how Sharaun Cole was ruled out because DNA is processing still.

Telethia is still not on the NamUs UP #3199's ruled out list, Sharaun Cole is still there

I turned in Kelly Staples to namus and told them where to find the address for her father.

Ok, the response about Kelly was that they are very interested in comparing Kelly to this uid, but are having a hard time obtaining the biometrics.

I see Kelly Staples DNA status still shows Sample is currently not available so I will ask about this too

Email asking about Telethia, Kelly Staples and Sherise Magee sent

 

[KaylaraOwl]

I posted earlier in this thread, but I already submitted Kelly Staples. They need to find her family members to get a DNA sample. I posted what information I could find earlier in the thread. If we can find Kelly's family, then perhaps we can contact them, or put them into contact with the people from namus.

I agree, we really can't say if she had symptoms or not. We have occult tethered spinal cord (OTC) which is similar to what she has, I knew something was wrong with me from a very young age. I used to walk; my leg used to go out on me, most times up our 2 flights of concrete steps; plus I had pain and an insect crawling feeling. The family doctor used to say my symptoms were growing pains. I would ask why neither of my siblings had it; he said because I was taller but I never bought what he was saying. I've had some form of back issues since 3 or 4 which really blew up in my 30's to where I'm totally disabled at 50.

My daughter born in 93 also has OTC; she was always really clumsy since she could walk. She was always falling. Her health crashed when she was a teen. Usually with OTC there are other spine issues but on the brain/ cervical end called Chiari Malformation where the brain bulges into the cervical spine due to a deformity. We finally figured everything out in 2011/ 2012. My 3 year old grandson also has OTC and Chiari Malformation.

Since we do not have her skull, we do not know if she had Chiari Malformation too.



I'll follow up with Melissa to ask about Telethia because she's still not listed on the rule out list. Sharaun Cole's DNA is finished processing

I was told she was going to look into the suggestions and get them to the investigators on all of the cases. She was also looking into the exclusion of Sharaun Cole but was not able to tell public users information as to how someone is excluded. Some do, some don't.

Will ask about NamUs MP #4909 Sherise Magee







I see Kelly Staples DNA status still shows Sample is currently not available so I will ask about this too

Email asking about Telethia, Kelly Staples and Sherise Magee sent

 

[Jake479]

Sherise Magee is already on the exclusions list. identifyus.org/cases/3199

 

[Jigoku Dayu]

Did LE ever say she had precocious puberty, because I haven't found that anywhere.

 

[Roselvr]

I posted earlier in this thread, but I already submitted Kelly Staples. They need to find her family members to get a DNA sample. I posted what information I could find earlier in the thread. If we can find Kelly's family, then perhaps we can contact them, or put them into contact with the people from namus.

I know you submitted Kelly and even gave them her fathers contact info. I'm trying to find out what happed after that.

Sherise Magee is already on the exclusions list. identifyus.org/cases/3199

Thanks, not sure how I missed it.

Did LE ever say she had precocious puberty, because I haven't found that anywhere.

No, it was a suggestion to determine age

The link to the Doe Network originally posted by Dexter back in 2005 has reported this little Doe has Spina Bifida. It potentially sounds like the mild form but a significant fact as she may have had physical and/or learning if not intellectual difficulties. Socio status would be significant as people with disability were often not as accepted in mainstream culture or included in family day to day activities. Often (but not always) children with special needs were adopted out or sent to specialist schools. (Not meaning to offend anyone. It's a harsh reality of our lived culture in decades past, close to my heart)

Significant is the fact that kids with spina bifida often experience precocious puberty. She could be in fact as young as 8 with curves. I knew there was something that jumped out here.

http://spinabifidaassociation.org/project/precocious-puberty/

 

[KaylaraOwl]

I haven't gotten any other information back about finding living family members. Maybe some of the genealogy buffs here can help find siblings online? We might be more effective that way?

 

[Roselvr]

I haven't gotten any other information back about finding living family members. Maybe some of the genealogy buffs here can help find siblings online? We might be more effective that way?

I'll let you know if she replies to my email. Maybe consider emailing her too to ask since you're the one that gave her the info?

 

[Moonwalker9]

Good discussion, that's what these cases needs to be solved. Comitted contributors with good insights and thoughts.

What does anybody else think of Vernon Brown?, the only suspect in this case. He was a child molester that lived in the area and killed several other children in simular manner. He was eventually executed for an unrelated homicide but never confessed to this one. The investigators believed he killed her, however Brown was not particulary organized and there was as far as I know no physichal evidence that tied him to the crime scene other then his modus operandi in other cases and the fact he lived close by. The girl was apparently raped, but no dna from the perp present? I Also wonder if there was nothing matching the girl with Brown at his residence or how the hell no one claimed her. The investigators speculated that she may have been the daughter of some of Browns girlfriends. If so, But where was the mother?

The girl was well nourished and she came from out of state recently prior to her death. That means she can't have been held captive for long. Remember her nails were even coloured red. Either her mom died or Brown killed her mom too which explained why she didn't look after her or claimed her or Brown had nothing to do with this in the first place. Investigators suffered from tunnel vision and didn't look outside the box. Like one poster said previously, maybe the perp was an custodian,a father, uncle, grandfather foster parent etc. Therefore she was decapitated post mortem to prevent her from being identified and connected to the custodian. This is what I believe. Her murderer was local and knew about this abandoned house,so when she died he put her body there.

I Wish there was a chance to narrow the search of where she came from. The South is big. Maybe through ancestry.com there could be a matching DNA to a relative. I Think it could be a great place to find answers to the unidentified. Or that someone recalls their tall classmate that suddenly left school to move to her relatives in ST. Louis and never came back. She must've gone to school at some point so someone must remember her.

wonder, is there any chance to check up custodians of young African American girls that lived in the area at the time, probably far fetched but I know investigators have gone through thosuands of cars models to find that one car involved in a crime. How does the social security number register work, is there a chance to check persons that match a certain age/race/region and see if they are still using it? Lets say she was born from 1972-1975 and she came from Georgia, and it was possible to check everyone not using the SSC since 1983 it would defenitely narrow the search. Just a wild thought.

 

[Roselvr]

Good discussion, that's what these cases needs to be solved. Comitted contributors with good insights and thoughts.

What does anybody else think of Vernon Brown?, the only suspect in this case. He was a child molester that lived in the area and killed several other children in simular manner. He was eventually executed for an unrelated homicide but never confessed to this one. The investigators believed he killed her, however Brown was not particulary organized and there was as far as I know no physichal evidence that tied him to the crime scene other then his modus operandi in other cases and the fact he lived close by. The girl was apparently raped, but no dna from the perp present? I Also wonder if there was nothing matching the girl with Brown at his residence or how the hell no one claimed her. The investigators speculated that she may have been the daughter of some of Browns girlfriends. If so, But where was the mother?

The girl was well nourished and she came from out of state recently prior to her death. That means she can't have been held captive for long. Remember her nails were even coloured red. Either her mom died or Brown killed her mom too which explained why she didn't look after her or claimed her or Brown had nothing to do with this in the first place. Investigators suffered from tunnel vision and didn't look outside the box. Like one poster said previously, maybe the perp was an custodian,a father, uncle, grandfather foster parent etc. Therefore she was decapitated post mortem to prevent her from being identified and connected to the custodian. This is what I believe. Her murderer was local and knew about this abandoned house,so when she died he put her body there.

I Wish there was a chance to narrow the search of where she came from. The South is big. Maybe through ancestry.com there could be a matching DNA to a relative. I Think it could be a great place to find answers to the unidentified. Or that someone recalls their tall classmate that suddenly left school to move to her relatives in ST. Louis and never came back. She must've gone to school at some point so someone must remember her.

wonder, is there any chance to check up custodians of young African American girls that lived in the area at the time, probably far fetched but I know investigators have gone through thosuands of cars models to find that one car involved in a crime. How does the social security number register work, is there a chance to check persons that match a certain age/race/region and see if they are still using it? Lets say she was born from 1972-1975 and she came from Georgia, and it was possible to check everyone not using the SSC since 1983 it would defenitely narrow the search. Just a wild thought.

I got my working papers and social security number when I started working at 15 in 1980. Social security numbers were not given to new parents back then, it started when I had my son in 1985. I was given the paperwork, told to send it in but a lot of people did not. When I had my daughter in 93 they gave us everything (birth certificate and social) to fill out before discharge and they sent it all in.

I do wonder if they still have the rope used and if they could get DNA from it or if they did a rape kit.

She is not from the south according to the isotope results.

At some point the Smithsonian redid her isotope testing to get different states, I haven't had a chance to look for an article but it's on her Doe net page. They did the same thing to another Jane Doe I follow. I am clueless how it goes from South to North.

Full Anthropology exam and isotope analysis completed by NCMEC and the Smithsonian. Advanced forensic testing of her bones has also suggested that the female was not originally from the local St. Louis area but possibly spent most of her childhood in the following states: Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Indiana, and West Virginia.

 

[Moonwalker9]

yeah I heard so too about her origins. a bit confusing since the original reports said she was from the south but if thus is indeed accurate it's for the better. less blacks in those states to look out for.

that t-shirt got missing in the mail. as for the rope or if there was a rape kit I never heard of. it would be crucial if it could be match with someone.

 

[Roselvr]

I agree, we really can't say if she had symptoms or not. We have occult tethered spinal cord (OTC) which is similar to what she has, I knew something was wrong with me from a very young age. I used to walk; my leg used to go out on me, most times up our 2 flights of concrete steps; plus I had pain and an insect crawling feeling. The family doctor used to say my symptoms were growing pains. I would ask why neither of my siblings had it; he said because I was taller but I never bought what he was saying. I've had some form of back issues since 3 or 4 which really blew up in my 30's to where I'm totally disabled at 50.

My daughter born in 93 also has OTC; she was always really clumsy since she could walk. She was always falling. Her health crashed when she was a teen. Usually with OTC there are other spine issues but on the brain/ cervical end called Chiari Malformation where the brain bulges into the cervical spine due to a deformity. We finally figured everything out in 2011/ 2012. My 3 year old grandson also has OTC and Chiari Malformation.

Since we do not have her skull, we do not know if she had Chiari Malformation too.

_____________

I'll follow up with Melissa to ask about Telethia because she's still not listed on the rule out list. Sharaun Cole's DNA is finished processing

I was told she was going to look into the suggestions and get them to the investigators on all of the cases. She was also looking into the exclusion of Sharaun Cole but was not able to tell public users information as to how someone is excluded. Some do, some don't.

Will ask about NamUs MP #4909 Sherise Magee

______________

I see Kelly Staples DNA status still shows Sample is currently not available so I will ask about this too

Email asking about Telethia, Kelly Staples and Sherise Magee sent

She said UP #3199 and Telethia Good both have DNA profiles searching against each other in CODIS without association. She forwarded our suggestion to the investigators last year for consideration in pursuing a manual DNA comparison for the purposes of issuing a public exclusion. It’s their option on whether to ask for the manual comparison to be done and so far there has not been a request.

NCMEC is working on DNA collection for Kelly Staples’ case.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

Good to hear. I asked for help with finding Kelly Staples family members on Facebook with the group "Black and Missing but not forgotten".

 

[winko567]

"If we just knew who she was, I think it would be a burden lifted from my shoulders," Adkins said. "Where is the mother? Where is the father? Where are her brothers or sisters? Where are her relatives? Where are her playmates, friends or classmates? Where are her neighbors, her teachers? Where are the people who knew and cared for her? It's almost as if she didn't exist."

I seriously do not mean to 'personalize' this case because i do that wayy too much with a lot of stuff like this but i just want to say this:
when i read this part "where are her brothers? sisters? playmates? relatives? or people who cared for her?" Whenever someone is found dead and unidentified and no one knows who they are or where they came from, people always think that there's someone out there who misses them and someone out there who wants them to come home, and someone out there who is wondering what has happened to them. But the horrible truth is, we never know that for sure until we found out who they are.

when i first discovered this story, i related to this story a lot because back when I was 10 years old i ran away on a bus from Wisconsin to Chicago and was living on the streets for 5 whole days, until i finally decided to come back on my own because it was really dangerous there. When i came back, Not one missing poster was put up and my adoptive parents didn't even to notice much (they definitely did however, but they didn't react much when i came back, and they did call the police when they found out i was gone, but not even the cops did much because i was a runaway) and as for friends? playmates? I never had any. and Classmates? Teachers? THAT'S THE REASON WHY I RAN AWAY!

And when i read this story, I can't help but to think that it was the exact same for this girl, except she never got a chance to go back. I'm pretty sure she was a runaway. She was VERY tall for her age (5 foot 5, and i was 5 foot 8 when i was 10 so no one thought i was a kid when they saw me on the streets in Chicago). Maybe she left because she was being bullied in school, or couldn't get along with her 'family' (god forbid she had one like mine!) and maybe she saved up some money and took a bus to saint Louis (exactly like i did to Chicago back in 2006).

But instead of going back on her own, she met up with someone and trusted the wrong person who did this to her. Did the police of Saint Louis ever ask anyone in the area if they saw anything prior to her body being discovered? like a young girl walking around the city streets alone wearing a yellow sweater? what about the bus stations?

I think it was either that, or, her parents probably could've been the ones who killed her like Precious Doe. I'm not sure, but that's what I think. Regardless of what happens, it's still very important to find out who she is. I remember seeing in a documentary about princess doe when the cop said "we need to find out who she is, it's not for her, she's dead, but for her family who misses her and she needs to be back with them," BUT that is definitely not always true! It doesn't matter if they're dead! It's important for them too! People need to know what happened to this girl, she needs to named, and her killer needs to be named and brought to justice.

sorry for the personal ramble, but i'm just sharing my thoughts. and wanted to bump this too.

 

[dotr]

Skimming the thread, it seems several posters thought that SLD's hands seemed older than her estimated age.
Before reading those posts, that was my impression too, thinking that if the girl is young as suggested, her hands may look somewhat large and worn, imo.
Wondering if she played a musical instrument and practice built up her hand muscles? Perhaps piano, because of the painted nails?

If this was similar rope used to tie the victim, wondering if it was used in a boat because of the water resistant material?
If SLDoe's body contained some mold, could that mold be consistent with the kind found on a specific lake?
Although the rope may not have retained much in the way of fingerprints at the time it was found, hoping it is getting retested using the new fingerprint technology.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...olid-Braid-Polypropylene-Rope-70320/206192288
bbm.

The Crown Bolt Solid Braid Polypropylene Rope is ideal for all-purpose applications. It is rot proof, resists oil, water and most chemicals. It is flexible and lightweight.

California residents: see Proposition 65 information

• 100% polypropylene
• White and red color
• Abrasion resistant
• Floats

https://www.google.ca/search?q=St.+...UICygC&biw=1366&bih=659#imgrc=SdKtHN8HmPKiOM:

 

[Alleykins]

That amount of rope used to restrain this child seems like overkill. Look how much was used and how many times it was wrapped around her wrists.

 

[CountEveryMoment]

It could be that she had gotten her hands loose before and they thought that they needed to make sure they weren't going to get loose again. Or they were paranoid that she would get loose. It probably wasn't overkill in the killers mind.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Her little hands made me upset. I think they were weathered from hard work [emoji22]and she wasn't reported


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[STANDREID]

That amount of rope used to restrain this child seems like overkill. Look how much was used and how many times it was wrapped around her wrists.

I suppose it could have just been the amount of rope the killer had and he didn't want to take the time to cut it. Or, there could have been some sort of bondage related fetish also.

 

[Alleykins]

I'm terrible with knots.
Does anyone know if this is some sort of haphazard tying/knotting job or is it some elaborate knot, like a sailor would use?
Also, would this be the type of rope used for maritime/water recreation purposes, like one would find at a public pool holding a line of buoys to mark off swim areas?

 

[dotr]

I'm terrible with knots.
Does anyone know if this is some sort of haphazard tying/knotting job or is it some elaborate knot, like a sailor would use?
Also, would this be the type of rope used for maritime/water recreation purposes, like one would find at a public pool holding a line of buoys to mark off swim areas?

Just asked an expert, and he said that the pic. looks like a mess of a tie job, then added that there is a saying, " If you can't tie knots, tie lots".