MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

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LawAbiding, I agree with you that she was not likely from out of state, or if so, not from far out of state (East St. Louis maybe?). I'm not with you yet on the familial involvement.

The evidence seems to indicate that she was killed and brutalized elsewhere than the building where she was found, due to lack of blood at the scene--but maybe not too far away?

In looking at some of the images in links posted on this thread, I noticed that the stains on the front of her yellow sweater indicate that the killer was probably right-handed.

There've got to be a lot more clues buried here than we realize.
 
I can't say that I have any more evidential reasons for believing the victim was older, other than the aforementioned ones that I stated in my initial post. I'll also add the LE on the scene initially thought the victim to be a prostitute along with the fact that medical examiners don't always get it right.

While I may certainly be wrong, I really would like to see the case solved. I'm less than conviced that the case will be solved by someone coming foward after all these years. Not sure about MO's laws regardin Familial DNA but I belive it would be monumental in solving this case.

Familial DNA use would prove even more controversial given there is no DNA from the perp but instead the vitcim's DNA would be enter into the state or local DNA database along with NDNAD. I think results would yeild a hit to a parent or sibling, leading to the victim being identified.
 
ynotdivein, Indeed we agree. It' very illogical that someone would have committed this murder out of state or any great distance, with no familarity with this area and then having chose to dump the victim there.
 
From 2004:

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/content/printVersion/117278/

"Buried within the Web site for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children lies a page devoted to Jane Doe. Of the roughly 1,400 children profiled, she is the only child without a mug shot or artist's rendering. In its place appears the bloodied yellow sweater found on her body, along with information about skin color, weight and age.

It is on this Web site, and a handful of other databases devoted to missing children, that detective Tom Carroll continues to search for Jane Doe's identity. Police long ago abandoned the hopes of finding her head. Even if they were to find it, it would be nothing more than a skull, perhaps providing the girl's dental records, but little else.

It is in the ethereal world of the Internet that Carroll digs for clues. In six years of scrolling through thousands of profiles, he's identified a dozen missing girls who perhaps match the description of Jane Doe.

Carroll, 40, is the latest detective to head up the case from inside a department whose interior is little changed since the days of the girl's vicious death. Detectives are outfitted with the bare minimum: a desk, phone, filing cabinet. Fluorescent lights, a worn linoleum floor and half-finished coffee cups complete the scene. Save for the width of the cops' neckties, it might be the stage set for the 1970s sitcom Barney Miller.

Once Carroll comes across a possible match, he contacts the child's parents. Each phone call is another stab in the dark.

"It's to the point you really are walking on eggshells when you're calling these people," says the soft-spoken Carroll, who works the Jane Doe murder whenever he has a free hour or two. "People will let time heal a lot of things, and do you really want to gash that back open?"

The conversations are more or less the same. Carroll identifies himself and prefaces the discussion by saying he's not calling to report good news. He tells them St. Louis police have a deceased black female they can't identify. He then describes Jane Doe as best he can. Inevitably the strangers on the other end of the line begin quizzing him, wanting to know what color hair the victim had. What color were her eyes? Doesn't he have dental records?

After a while Carroll is forced to show his hand. He tells them the little girl's head was never discovered. That revelation comes followed by a long pause, but most parents of missing children sympathize with the cop. After so many years, they're looking for any answer, good or bad." (snip--more at link above)
 
As with other posters, I to believe the victim was older than 8-11 years of age. The two coats of red nail polish has been a point of interest for me regarding her age. I site a combination of the time period in which this occurred, Mid Western values, along with certain cultural propensities as to why I do not believe an 8-11 year old African American girl would have been wearing red nail polish.

I think the victim could have been as old as 13-17 years of age for the aforementioned reason as well as the victim's above average height in regards to most 8-11 yr old girls.

I also do not belive the victim was from out of state given the locale where her body was dumped and my believing removing her head to be indicative of the killer having some sort of personal ties to both the area and the victim.This case seems a perfect canidate for a Familial DNA search. It's controversial and not allowed in most states but I believe this would potentially solve this case.

I think that this is an interesting premise about the nail polish, but am not sure I understand. For the sake of argument, my mom used to either paint my nails or let me paint my own when I was the estimated age of Jane Doe, this would have also been in the 1980s, but I am from California and a different ethnic background than Jane Doe (white, primarily German). Could you please explain this a little, I think there is something that I am not aware of (embarrassingly, I have been quite a few places but my only experiences with the American Midwest has been traveling through the airports in St. Louis and Chicago).

I would like to know if a familiar search for this UID has been suggested because I really believe if the girl is identified her killer(s) will be (or at least a lot closer to being) identified, too. I had thought that a possible reason why she hadn't been identified was that something in her description is off (age, race, who knows?).

Was LE ever able to find her body for exhumation? or do they have something that could be tested for DNA still on file from the original autopsy?
 
I am black and I agree with a young girl black girl not wearing nail polish at that age. It is seen as too grown for that age in our community and esp if she comes from a strong religious background or if she had been by older relatives, red would have been a no-no. It would have been associated with prostitutes.
 
I am from the St. Louis area. I can say that the area where she was found is not somewhere that someone passing through St. Louis would find. There is not a doubt in my mind that it would be someone that lived in the area or someone who knew someone in the area. I suppose the girl could have come from Illinois, but she also could have come from a town anywhere in Missouri or Illinois, possibly even Kansas City.

I can't say for sure that someone her age wouldn't have worn fingernail polish. I would have worn it at her age. I understand what Scriptgirl is saying, but maybe we should consider the possibility that maybe she was adopted and her family wasn't black. I think that's a stretch, but anything's possible.

There were many housing projects located in St. Louis around that timeframe. Darst-Webbe was located downtown and was pretty notorious as being BAD. Cochran Gardens was occupied during that timeframe as well. It may be worth considering people that may have gone missing from those specifically if that's even possible.
 
peabody courts: Pruitt Igoe, you name it. Pruitt Igoe was torn down in mid 1970's and displaced a lot of families.
 
peabody courts: Pruitt Igoe, you name it. Pruitt Igoe was torn down in mid 1970's and displaced a lot of families.

Yes, I didn't include Pruitt Igoe because it wasn't around when this Doe was found....THANK GOODNESS!

I really believe that whomever killed her was from the area or visiting a relative in the area. This is not a random location. I don't know where the girl came from, but I suspect it wouldn't be far either. Maybe she was a foster child???
 
I was specifically speaking regarding red nail polish being worn by the victim, not nail polish in general. I grew up in the South and I believe the Mid West share alot of the same values as we do in the south. Especially a conservative state as MO.

I'm also Black with two female siblings. Couple all of the aforementioned with certain Baptist overtones, of which a lot of Blacks in the Mid West observe, along with cultural nuances, it being the early 80's.

I just took note of the red nail polish because it was mentioned in every article or forum that I read regarding this case and I thought how my mom would not have allowed my sisters to wear red nail polish at 8 to 11 years of age.
 
I found something odd today. I know that a lot of people refer to this little girl as Precious Doe, and today on Facebook, while searching for her page, I found a Facebook page that has no info regarding it, it is only named Precious Doe and has a picture of a little African American girl in a white dress. Absolutely nothing else. Could someone please go to this link and save the picture before it disappears. My computer is acting weird and not letting me save things. Please, it probably means nothing, but I would really, really love it if someone would save this pic for me, just in case.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Precious-Doe/261021657242862?sk=wall
 
I found something odd today. I know that a lot of people refer to this little girl as Precious Doe, and today on Facebook, while searching for her page, I found a Facebook page that has no info regarding it, it is only named Precious Doe and has a picture of a little African American girl in a white dress. Absolutely nothing else. Could someone please go to this link and save the picture before it disappears. My computer is acting weird and not letting me save things. Please, it probably means nothing, but I would really, really love it if someone would save this pic for me, just in case.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Precious-Doe/261021657242862?sk=wall


computer_pic_first.jpg
2065619860045078242S500x500Q851.jpg


This Precious Doe case was resolved back in 2005. She was identified as Erica Michelle Marie Green from Kansas City. She was also beheaded, but she was left in a wooded area. Her mother and stepfather were convicted of her murder.
 
I was specifically speaking regarding red nail polish being worn by the victim, not nail polish in general. I grew up in the South and I believe the Mid West share alot of the same values as we do in the south. Especially a conservative state as MO.

I'm also Black with two female siblings. Couple all of the aforementioned with certain Baptist overtones, of which a lot of Blacks in the Mid West observe, along with cultural nuances, it being the early 80's.

I just took note of the red nail polish because it was mentioned in every article or forum that I read regarding this case and I thought how my mom would not have allowed my sisters to wear red nail polish at 8 to 11 years of age.

Her mom might have known nothing about it if she was a runaway or if the perp liked red nail polish on the victims.
 
im from st louis and this breaks my heart.... I wish we can find out who she is. How far from the loop was she found? Nail polish could have beenput on her by the person who did it.
 
Only a few blocks from the Loop.
As far as the red nail polish goes, I don't know if it really means anything. I grew up in rural Missouri, not far from St. Louis. My parents were pretty strict but I don't think they would have even thought twice about me wearing any color nail polish. Most girls I knew painted their nails, not on a regular basis but maybe at sleepovers and things like that. I know some parents would only let their younger (less than 11-12) daughters have painted nails if they removed it before going to school, but no specific color bans.
So, IMHO, I don't think it's anything to focus on too deeply unless we find more murdered girls with a common theme of red nail polish.
 
Precious Doe was identified as Erica Green several years ago. Her mother and stepfather were caught in Oklahoma. They are both now in prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erica_Green

I was living in Kansas City when she was identified. It was such a sigh of relief and, yes, a bit of joy to finally be able to put a name on her headstone. In that case, they were just "passing through" Kansas City and left her body there. :( However, the case of the missing Rilya Wilson is still very much open.
 
I know that when I lived on the loop as a teen there were many houses and buildings that were abandonded and used as flop houses. I wonder if any homeless in the area might remember anything odd, its a long shot though
 
What I found strange is that everybody is commenting about the nail polish, but to me and being that I live in New York, young girls some as young a five do wear nail polish. But to get back to the case, could she have come into the country illegally or if she came with some other family or family member ( the parents sending her to the US for a better life).
 
Sadly, it looks like they weren't able to exhume her because they don't know where she's buried. Her headstone wasn't on the right plot.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=192676

I can't find anymore articles saying they've located her remains. If anyone local knows if they've found her yet, please post. Thanks!

Never Forgotten.

They must have found her, because on NamUs her DNA is available at the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department and the FBI.

I was looking on NamUs to see if her head could have been found in another jurisdiction and not linked to her. I came up with two possibilities, but neither seemed likely --

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/8850

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9894

Also, this is the skull mentioned in the news articles which was determined not to be hers --
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9271
 
I have been going to Clayton Library, would anyone be interested in me posting the original news paper articles. I don't know what they say, but will get them.
 
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