Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #7

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They will. They have to finish the investigation first. Missouri law.

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My last post was saying I am back to considering this as an accident but also I will say, if this was a staged accident, who would be the person or people who could best stage an accident, yes a Police officer.

Even though I'm aware of why men rape, I did go back and read some on rape. If the Police Officer or Officers did do this to Toni it seems 90 percent of the time this would have been premeditated. Also most rapes occur by a person who knows the victim. Rape is about anger and control but not sexaul satisfaction. So maybe it's time to go back through the Police Officers actions that morning, did either one of them know Toni or frequent a club she danced at or did either one of them visit one of her profiles for the sex cam or seeking arrangement website?

For all of you experienced in sleuthing, how do the Police follow an Officer on duty and we need to know what time these two Officers at Toni's stop got off work. Another very important question is why did Toni not go to her meeting in the SW part of Kansas City and why did she go North? If Pete Sr. does get verified and can answer some questions hopefully his son has given him some information on why Toni would have been in the area she was driving in that morning.

I don't see how any of us can answer the questions that need answered in order to point a finger at the Police Officer or Officers. Do we even know what gender the Officers that stopped Toni are?
 
AceDetective said:
I didn't notice any snark, "The reason reason." Glad you're back.

Pete, it sure feels that way, doesn't it? We know they have the dash video, though. So they better release it.

On another topic:
The other day I was trying to verify Toni's cell phone being with her, and all I could find was people on here asking about it. I just came across this video that states that Toni's purse and cell phone were found with her, according to her family.

"Family members confirm that the 20-year-old's body was found inside the car along with her purse and cell phone."

source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-khxrvQ04v4
Click to expand...

Do we really know if there is dash cam footage? Do we know if the stops was called in or if the officer(s) said so after the fact?
 
The real reason said:
I am back folks. I guess I let my frustration come through a little bit and made an insensitive statement. I apologize. While I was away I see that the majority of you are back on track. Ace, you seem to be leading the pack as far as logic and accuracy are concerned. I have said it many times, but I will say it again. It is Missouri law for all records to be turned over via a sunshine law request once the investigation is closed. This one remains open and will be for 10 or more weeks based on toxicology return times and assuming the accident theory is dispelled my the KCPD. Folks there is no conspiracy and there is no smoking gun. I will not claim to be an insider as there is no benefit for me to do so, only problems. I will yell you that you can file a sunshine request to the KCPD once the case is closed, pay the processing fees (it will be expensive, I hear the case file is very extensive) and satisfy your curiosity. In the end you will recognize the truth. This was a tragedy of the greatest proportions wherein a lovely young woman lost her life and her parents lost what they knew to be reality. People ask, why did Liz subscribe to the human trafficking? How about because it was the only scenario in which her daughter was still alive. Her parents have been included in the investigation from the beginning and will know everything before it is made public. Pray for those good folks and everyone else who loses a loved one to an early grave. It happens every minute of every hour. If I have been snarky in the past it is because I feel so much pain for Toni's wonderful family and am tired of seeing them and the detectives who worked tirelessly to discover the truth get drug through the mud. I don't k now what else to say except that this is a time to be patient and logical. The answers to all your questions will be revealed soon.

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Click to expand...

Glad you're back. While I appreciate your sentiment, this is still your opinion. Maybe you have access to inside information.
My opinion is something fishy is going. For me, I would like to see the evidence that is it not foul play. To me the logical answers with the information we have is she did not slide down that ramp on accident. If I am wrong, then I, like many will be relieved there was no harm brought to her.
You are right, such a tragedy. I sincerely hope the answers, when they come make sense.
 
heartgoesout said:
Glad you're back. While I appreciate your sentiment, this is still your opinion. Maybe you have access to inside information.
My opinion is something fishy is going. For me, I would like to see the evidence that is it not foul play. To me the logical answers with the information we have is she did not slide down that ramp on accident. If I am wrong, then I, like many will be relieved there was no harm brought to her.
You are right, such a tragedy. I sincerely hope the answers, when they come make sense.
Click to expand...

Is this what we want to do, be patient and wait for answers from
LE? I told myself to do this a long time ago but it's difficult to do.

My impression from Pete Sr. is he is sure the Police Officers that stopped Toni are responsible for her going into that river. I've had a difficult time even thinking this could be the case but was going to listen to what Pete Sr. has to say and give it consideration. Anyone know why he isn't being verified?
 
heartgoesout said:
Do we really know if there is dash cam footage? [...]
Click to expand...

I did confirm that fact before posting because I had the same question. In this video, officer Snapp of the KCPD says, "the dash cam video literally shows the officer walking up to the car, talking to her for literally maybe a minute, and then you can see her pull off into the gas station." (source)

So we know the dash cam video exists.
 
PokeyMeansBusiness said:
Why would he join here when most people on this forum defame him?
Click to expand...

I think everyone should be treating him as a victim (and his son) just like they do the parents. He was not a blood relative, but Toni was dating his son, and they were in love. In the beginning of this case, with little facts out there, it was hard to see this as an accident. Given Toni's athletic background, and surrounding circumstances it just seems hard to believe. Hard in many ways. Lack of evidence that we have seen, and just plain HARD to think an accident could take this strong, beautiful, young girl. Why is he not being VERIFIED?? He is bringing up questions that his family needs answered. They are left with a black hole without closure. Anyone who thinks that he should be patient and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for answers is just being unreasonable on this forum that discusses a current and open case. I hope that we all find answers that lead us to truth. We already have the outcome which is hard to swallow. The man needs some respect and courtesy just like everyone else. Maybe he should have just come on as joeshmo347 and not been an honest person.......JMO


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I have a question about treating family members as victims and the forum rules. It's always possible a family member is involved in a person going missing, being harmed or murdered. Look at high profile cases like the Scott Peterson case, Casey Anthony and Jon Ramsey. On the Ramsey thread it's being asked if the family members were involved in her murder. I'm sure there are other threads where the family members are being discussed as being involved.

I'm not understanding when it's alright to consider a family member or someone close to the victim being involved or discussing this.
 
I have no idea how anyone was defaming Pete Sr, maybe I missed something.

He asked a question about why Toni was driving around pumps multiple times and someone answered with an opinion that actually made sense.

Then he got asked a question of how he knew she wasn't playing pokemon go? He got asked how he knew she was driving around the pumps at all, since we didn't see that in footage. how is that defaming anyone?

I think there's a bit of people mischaracterizing what gets said, and I'm not sure why that happens. I apologize if I missed where someone tried to defame him in some way.

Unless I am missing something, Pete Sr could be seen as defaming LE -- which I don't discount as a legit concern because there's tons of reasons to be skeptical.

But also should mention that Pete Sr is not LE or MSM. So when he says something that he believes, it's not unfair or a means of saying that we don't trust him to ask **how** he knows. It just means we'd like to understand how he knows that.

Liz Anderson has said things that people here want to know the answer as to **how** she knows that. Is that defaming her? I see a lot of people feeling comfortable asking **how** she knows.

I support that way of thinking. Asking how, is not defaming, unless someone wants to spin it that way.

JMO
 
I openly said I was rough on Pete in the sense of him going against the parents wishes. I do take issue with that. This is based on my family dynamics. I posed the question to Pete, at what point did he realize or believe he was warranted in doing this? I'm sure as a parent himself he can appreciate my questioning this. If it was his son and another person was going against him I'm sure he can understand my point. He'll probably not be able to answer this.
Other than that I don't think anyone asked anything inappropriate or disrespectful. It's a crime website, we ask questions about everyone. : )
 
BaileyC said:
This is important to consider the fact Toni was dressed, all her belongings were there and her seat belt was off and the window down. I'm going with the accident theory once again. Possibly they've figured out she didn't go into the water from the boat ramp. Being fully clothed pretty much leaves me knowing it wasn't a rape or sexual assault. All of her belonging being in the car leaves robbery out. I talked with someone from Parkville who goes to that park a lot. She said the Officer that patrols the park drives through every fifteen minutes. Doesn't sound like anyone would kill and dump a body in that park early on a Sunday morning when the park was open with it being patrolled often. Everyone says Toni wouldn't have killed herself but guess suicide could still be the cause. That would explain going down the ramp but doesn't explain the seat belt being off and the window down. Acci
dent and she tried to get out is what it looks like happened. Cold water caused shock and she died in the car. Drown or a heart attack.
Click to expand...

Good information. I believe this was a terrible accident.
 
Regarding the believability of an accident:

We are looking at things with the benefit of hindsight.

Why would Toni know how to escape a sinking car? We've considered the matter, probably watched a video or two, and know that the best way is to roll a window down. But did Toni know that?

People in a sinking vehicle often phone 911 to ask what to do. Many end up not surviving the incident. It is not obvious what to do.

There's a video on youtube where Mythbusters concluded that it is next to impossible to escape a car that entered the water upside down. Apparently, during the entire production of this segment, it never occurred to them to roll down the window!!! (Or maybe they had some other reason for not doing so. They were obviously focused on opening a door.) "The myth that it is next to impossible to escape when the car turns turtle is confirmed."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIx719_oer0

(The following is in my opinion.)

So Toni's car hits the water and what is the first thing she did? After she figured out her situation, she most likely tried to open the door. Everybody does. She tries and tries and tries to open the door. Why won't it open? She fumbles with the lock. It still won't open.

When did she finally think to roll down the window? Was the car already submerged? Had she already been holding her breath for a lengthy period of time?

If Toni rolled down the window early on, she would probably still be with us. Somehow or other, Toni just ran out of time.

The position of the car suggests to me that the window was up when it hit the water. There's another video on youtube that shows that a car that enters the water with a window down sinks very quickly. It would have been found closer to the boat ramp, imho. The position of the car shows it was floating for a considerable amount of time. So the window was rolled down just before the car sank, or after it sank.

Again, this is in my opinion.
 
The real reason said:
I am back folks. I guess I let my frustration come through a little bit and made an insensitive statement. I apologize. While I was away I see that the majority of you are back on track. Ace, you seem to be leading the pack as far as logic and accuracy are concerned. I have said it many times, but I will say it again. It is Missouri law for all records to be turned over via a sunshine law request once the investigation is closed. This one remains open and will be for 10 or more weeks based on toxicology return times and assuming the accident theory is dispelled my the KCPD. Folks there is no conspiracy and there is no smoking gun. I will not claim to be an insider as there is no benefit for me to do so, only problems. I will yell you that you can file a sunshine request to the KCPD once the case is closed, pay the processing fees (it will be expensive, I hear the case file is very extensive) and satisfy your curiosity. In the end you will recognize the truth. This was a tragedy of the greatest proportions wherein a lovely young woman lost her life and her parents lost what they knew to be reality. People ask, why did Liz subscribe to the human trafficking? How about because it was the only scenario in which her daughter was still alive. Her parents have been included in the investigation from the beginning and will know everything before it is made public. Pray for those good folks and everyone else who loses a loved one to an early grave. It happens every minute of every hour. If I have been snarky in the past it is because I feel so much pain for Toni's wonderful family and am tired of seeing them and the detectives who worked tirelessly to discover the truth get drug through the mud. I don't k now what else to say except that this is a time to be patient and logical. The answers to all your questions will be revealed soon.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks for your wise advice and support for Toni's parents and the police officers.
 
heartgoesout said:
I openly said I was rough on Pete in the sense of him going against the parents wishes. I do take issue with that. This is based on my family dynamics. I posed the question to Pete, at what point did he realize or believe he was warranted in doing this? I'm sure as a parent himself he can appreciate my questioning this. If it was his son and another person was going against him I'm sure he can understand my point. He'll probably not be able to answer this.
Other than that I don't think anyone asked anything inappropriate or disrespectful. It's a crime website, we ask questions about everyone. : )
Click to expand...


Oh, I didn't see that. I don't see that as defaming either though imo.

I personally respect the parent's opinions and I don't feel the need to question them personally on why the believe what they do. But there is also this thing we call society that is more important than any individual or small group of individuals involved in a case like this.

I hope that doesn't come across as abrasive, but it's the point that society has a right to get answers about what happened in a case like this, if something is unclear.

For example, if it's an accident, society has the right to demand a proper sign and a gate be put up to avoid this danger.

So in that context, society also has the right to ask questions about this situation to better understand what happened in case aspects of the case are seen as detrimental to society. For example if LE officers are going around pulling people over for bogus reasons and not calling it in or not following departmental procedures designed to provide proper checks and balances, then society has the right to demand that actions be taken to correct that behavior.

There might be perfectly decent explanations for many of the things we have been and are discussing, but they just simply need to be heard. If for example there was foul play involved in Toni's death, that is something society has a right to know. It's not just the victim's family that has the right to know about those details. So how else can society be aware and satisfied of whether foul play was involved or not, unless transparency exists?

When the case completes and if dash cam footage, QT surveillance, etc all gets released, it should answer tons of questions we all have. Maybe more questions arise?

It might even point to improper behavior by officers that wasn't relevant to Toni's disappearance, yet society still has a right to chime in on that topic.



On the topic of questions for parents or pete? Why not?

I believe MSM has been asking questions of the family. It's a normal thing to ask "how do you know this?"

Your hope is that they are going to answer with something like -- I saw the autopsy report and it said <whatever the detail asked about>

Now, one area where I think I have questions for Pete jr is the astrologer aspect. I know it's been improperly been referred to as a psychic, but in my defense, that's the word used by MSM in saying pete jr and a friend were following a tip by a psychic.

Regardless, astrologer is a rather close cousin of psychics and tarrot card reading and I agree there is a significant technical difference... but I hope some of you here can agree when I say -- Is there really? :)

I hope I am not breaking any rules by bringing up this topic, but it was reported in MSM, it's not a rumor.

I hope that I am not alone in questioning how this interaction was initiated and how that specific astrologer was chosen. I will have to do some research on this particular case, but I know that many astrologers/psychics do readings or whatever they are called on just about every missing person case. Every reading is usually significantly different, but all include logical observations that can be made without some calculations most of us will admit is a black box to us :) What this tells me, is that there's likely a lot of individuals here on WS that could invent their own black box and be right a high % of times if given some quality details about the case. I've heard some boast of being right 8 out of 10 times.

But bottom line is, I'd like to understand why this particular astrologer was chosen and if there were other astrologers that offered their services. I'm just curious as to how one chooses one astrologer over another?

I hope that's not seen as an unfair question to ask.
 
AceDetective said:
[...]
There's another video on youtube that shows that a car that enters the water with a window down sinks very quickly. It would have been found closer to the boat ramp, imho.
[...]
Click to expand...

Looked into this a little further and that might be a slight exaggeration.

Once the water hits an open window, the car sinks very quickly. How long the car takes to get to that point varies with how front heavy it is. One video shows a front-heavy car reaching that point in 8 seconds. Another video shows an ultra light car taking 20 seconds. Once the water hits the open window, even the light car sinks in about 5 more seconds.

Also, I believe the point has already been made here, that once the window is sufficiently submerged, it might not open due to the pressure on it. So by the time Toni thought to try rolling down her window, it may have been too late

Here's a thought. You know the way you hit a window switch and then it rolls down automatically, even after you released the switch? I bet Toni hit the window switch and there was too much pressure for the window to roll down. Only when the car was already on the bottom, when the pressure equalized, did it automatically roll down.

Wow. That may perfectly explain the window being rolled down but Toni not being able to escape!

I've said it a million times, to myself. Just because you can't think of a reason for something, doesn't mean there isn't one.

edit: references:
heavy car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fymjbkGSta8
light car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHVaIbasV-A
There are possible confounding factors in those videos, like other windows being down or removed, but I believe the point is valid.
 
To fully explain that last thought: on many cars, when you bump the switch to lower the driver's door window, power is applied to the window motor and remains applied until the window hits bottom. If the window were jammed, it wouldn't move until it became unjammed, but power would remain applied to the motor. Only at the point where the window became unjammed (when the pressure equalized) would it move to the bottom to complete the cycle and turn the motor off.

So it is entirely possible that the window rolled down after Toni had already lost consciousness.
 
The 2014 Ford Focus manual only has this to say:

One-Touch Down (If Equipped)
Press the switch fully and release it. Press again or lift it to stop the window


So if it was equipped, which it probably was, and she bumped the switch an odd number of times, the window would have rolled down after the pressure in the car equalized.
 
This forum is a Godsend compared to the people on fb that Pete frequently had to deal with.

Jmo.
 
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