Most Important Piece of Evidence

[LovelyPigeon]

I agree with Maikai that the male DNA found on the crotch of the panties with JonBenét's blood and under her fingernails is probably the best evidence. I believe that CODIS or a state agency will eventually get a "hit" on that DNA.

The note is important too, and I believe when the killer is found that his historical handwriting samples will link him to the handwriting on the note.

 

[sansoucie]

Forgive my ignorance, but

1. have they compared the known males with the DNA?Did the DNA not match because it was not an adult ejaculate?IE no sperm but the PRE- stuff I can't remember the name of?
2. If not, why? Noncompliance? Can't secure a warrant?
3.The pineapple thing, weren't Burke's prints on it (the bowl)? Did he admit to touching the bowl or eating any along with his sister?
4.What exactly was Burke doing the night of? Why wasn't he
asleep and why didn't he hear/see anything?
5.Where did the cord come from that was used for the garotte?

 

[Shylock]

Forgive my ignorance, but

1. have they compared the known males with the DNA?Did the DNA not match because it was not an adult ejaculate?IE no sperm but the PRE- stuff I can't remember the name of?
2. If not, why? Noncompliance? Can't secure a warrant?
3.The pineapple thing, weren't Burke's prints on it (the bowl)? Did he admit to touching the bowl or eating any along with his sister?
4.What exactly was Burke doing the night of? Why wasn't he
asleep and why didn't he hear/see anything?
5.Where did the cord come from that was used for the garotte?

1 & 2. There is no identifiable source for the mystery DNA. It's not from semen, blood, skin, saliva, etc. There is no way to tell where it came from. It might not even exist and may be a by-product from the testing process itself, (a phenominum known as "stutter effect"). This is one reason that Dr. Henry Lee says this is not a DNA case. Also Sansaucie, you should read this article: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/ramsey/article/0,1299,DRMN_1296_1554639,00.html

3. Both Burke and Patsy's fingerprints were on the bowl of pineapple. Nobody knows what Burke was asked or said to the Grand Jury. His testimony is sealed like everybody elses.

4. Burke (according to the parents) stayed up after they arrived home and was assembling a toy he got for Christmas. Nobody knows for sure what time he went to bed or what he might have heard or done after that.

5. The cord was purchased either from the Ramseys local hardware store where they regularly shopped, or possibly from a local army-navy supply store which also sold that brand of packaged cord. Ramsey receipts were found from the hardware store with items of the same price as the cord on them. But the hardware store did not scan bar codes at checkout so there is no way to tell what the exact item was the Ramseys purchased.

 

[Ivy]

sansoucie, in addition to what Shylock posted: Even if the mystery DNA is authentic and not a false positive (stutter) caused by the amplification process, it could still be a combination of more than one person's DNA via lab or factory contamination. Only if the mystery DNA came from one person can John or Burke be ruled out as possible donors. If the mystery DNA came from more than one person, neither John nor Burke can be ruled out.

IMO

 

[LovelyPigeon]

1. There is no semen or seminal fluid on the body. The unidentified male DNA was found on the crotch of JonBenét's panties and under her fingernails. We do not know if the DNA came from blood, skin cells, saliva, or sweat.
Family members have been compared to the DNA. We don't know which other males have been compared, but we know that BPD has said that some particular males did not match the DNA (Helgoth, Wolf, etc).

Testing of a second spot of blood on the panties resulted in a sample of male DNA with at least 10 markers, sufficient to submit to the FBI in 2003 for comparison to it's national data base of DNA samples. No matches have yet been reported.

3. Family member fingerprints on a bowl inside their home wouldn't indicate much of anything.
4. Burke told police he was asleep during the night and was awakened by his mother screaming in the early a.m. He pretended to be asleep and stayed in bed when his parents looked in on him, and even when police arrived and looked into his room.
5.The cord has never been sourced. No matching cord was found in the house, the cars, or on the property.

 

[sansoucie]

I agree with the bowl prints, but given the Ramsey's statements it could go to ward their lack of credibility and the fact that someone touched the bowl when they said no one gave her pineapple.

I falsely assumed that the DNA was seminal fluid... so all we know for sure is that it is male dna. Has the BPD ever come out and directly said, No the DNA does not match the male Ramseys?

I am not a fan of lie detector tests because Mellaril ( and a ton of other meds) can cause a false positive and some people are so cold ( green river killer) that their body doesn't behave as a normal person's would to stress or mistruth. Were they ever given a drug test before the LDT or asked? D\id they use a cvsa or a old galvanic Skin response test?

As for the rope, it doesn't mean much in itself but can add to the body of evidence. Anyone could have gotten the rope.

Prior abuse? I don't see any conclusive evidence of that even though there has been report of enlarged or damaged hymen. In and of itself it can't be proof positive she was abused before this night.. no matter what I personally think.

The suit case in the wine cellar is troubling but I can explain that... Burke wanted to sneak out ( I have kids and I know what they do ) The window was broken and he went out. Doesn't mean he did, but a defense atty will through anything out for reasonable doubt.Could it have been a sneak out? It COULD have been even if it's unlikely.

What ever happened to the wierd Santa? Did they compare his DNA?

Dang it you guys.. now I have to go read up more and search. I will have a sink of dishes and a ton of housework I am behind on! GEE THANKS! LOL!

 

[TLynn]

Sans...

The suitcase was full of JAR's belongings, so I don't think Burke sneaking out would even be a reasonable explanation no matter who throws it out.

 

[sansoucie]

You can't set a suitcase up to climb out a window if you're short if it has someone's belongings in it??? Since when?

 

[TLynn]

Oh, I see what you mean...my mistake.

Sneak out...still a weak arguement, tho - too many doors to leave through. The suitcase didn't have any dust on it (probably wasn't in the basement for any length of time). No one claims to know where it was supposed to be, except JR saying it was "out of place."

JAR claims it is his suitcase and his belongings...JAR needs to answer to where he left it and go from there.

 

[sissi]

DNA found in a victim's panties is the most important clue to solving today's murders and rapes.
This has to be the ONLY case where people are willing to suggest the DNA is meaningless.
IMO

 

[sansoucie]

Ok, I agree... so was the dna ever compared to the males in the house and everyone that visited? were they uncooperative, as they have been with about everything else?
What was the DNA extracted from? Semen blood saliva.. WHAT? DNA is not the conclusion to all cases. I don't think this case is as simple to believe once the dna source is isolated that all the guilty parties have been caught.

 

[Shylock]

DNA found in a victim's panties is the most important clue to solving today's murders and rapes.
This has to be the ONLY case where people are willing to suggest the DNA is meaningless.
IMO

Sissi, please find us ONE OTHER murder or rape case where the perp left only a fractured segment of a DNA strand behind. Or find us ONE OTHER murder or rape case where the experts from CellMark Labs stated that the DNA might not even exist and just be a product of the testing process.

The only way you see the DNA as being so important to this case, sissi, is because you play fast and loose with the facts.

 

[Shylock]

What was the DNA extracted from? Semen blood saliva.. WHAT?

Nothing. The DNA was extracted from nothing. There is no identifiable source for it. That's why Dr. Lee says this is NOT a DNA case.

Sansoucie, you're asking some pretty basic questions about this case. You should consider reading a couple books on the case. Start with "Perfect Murder - Perfect Town", to get the basics, then read Steve Thomas' book so you understand why this case was never, and will never, be solved. Both books will REALLY hold your interest.

 

[BlueCrab]

Family member fingerprints on a bowl inside their home wouldn't indicate much of anything.

Come on LP, you know better than that.

Burke's fingerprint's on the bowl of pineapple is one of the most important clues in this case. JonBenet ate pineapple from that bowl just 1 1/2 to 2 hours before she died. Burke's fingerprints on the bowl can put Burke downstairs with JonBenet after the parents went to bed and shortly before she died.

The pineapple also eliminates the intruder theory because JonBenet wouldn't be downstairs in the middle of the night snacking on pineapple from the bowl with someone she didn't know.

JMO

 

[Ivy]

PMPT pb p. 677

The most delicate part of the interview was getting Burke to answer questions without revealing what the police knew. First he was asked if he ate any pineapple and when he went to bed. He (said) he didn't remember.

He didn't remember? Shades of Patsy. If he'd been asked if he'd gotten the pineapple out of the fridge for JonBenet, I suppose he'd have said the same thing...that he didn't remember. Too bad he wasn't asked that instead. Then "I don't remember" would have raised a red flag or two, because JonBenet was supposed to have been in bed asleep.

IMO

 

[LovelyPigeon]

We don't know when JonBenét ate the pineapple. Even ST admitted that she could have eaten it before going to the Whites' house that evening.

I don't find Burke's single fingerprint or Patsy's single fingerprint on the bowl of pineapple any kind of clue in this case.

 

[sansoucie]

I could read the books... IF I had time to anymore. I check this msg board while I am doing some work. I can go back to sitting back and reading and absorbing until I have enough knowledge to enter the debate.

My point was there was no dna extracted from any known source. No one can ever give me a straightforeward answer on this. They say there is DNA.. but can never give any more info.

(gone back to lurking)

 

[sissi]

There are some things within this investigation that haven't leaked,the source of the dna is one. We have been assured there is much more pointing to an intruder that the public hasn't heard.


Shylock quote..
The only way you see the DNA as being so important to this case, sissi, is because you play fast and loose with the facts.

 

[TLynn]

JonBenet COULD NOT have eaten the pineapple before going to the White's - it's scientifically IMPOSSIBLE. The White's dinner was well digested before the pineapple.

And, I don't think posters are disregarding DNA evidence - it's just there isn't any DNA evidence. As stated above: Dr. Lee says this is not a DNA case.

We have heard the DNA is degraded, incomplete markers, etc. That is why the DNA is disregarded. There is no scientific evidence (as of yet) -

And there is no scientific evidence to support JonBenet eating the pineapple before the White's.

Bluecrab, Patsy's fingerprints were on that bowl as well. Not just Burke's.

 

[BlueCrab]

We don't know when JonBenét ate the pineapple. Even ST admitted that she could have eaten it before going to the Whites' house that evening.

I don't find Burke's single fingerprint or Patsy's single fingerprint on the bowl of pineapple any kind of clue in this case.

Steve Thomas doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the digestive system. JonBenet ate cracked crab for dinner around 7 P.M. at the Whites. That cracked crab meal was in her large intestine when she died about six hours later. The pineapple was in the proximal (beginning) portion of the small intestine, which means she ate it about 1 1/2 to 2 hours before she died. It was impossible for her to have eaten the pineapple before eating the cracked crab. The pineapple still had a slow winding trip through about 10' of the small intestine to get to where the cracked crab was in the large intestine.

Burke's fingerprints on the bowl of pineapple points to Burke as the person who fed the pineapple to JonBenet. There are supporting items of evidence related to the pineapple that also points to Burke.

JMO