Motion to Take Deposition to Perpetuate Testimony of Jill Kerley

[The World According]

Ms. Lyons is actually Mrs. Lyons so I would guess it is either he husband or her brother-in-law. Good catch NTS. I never heard that.

This is who that is, she speaks very fondly of him in her lectures. He sounds pretty impressive.

J Lyon
J Lyon has worked for 12 years as an investigator in the Post-Conviction Unit of the Office of the State Appellate Defender of Illinois. In January 2003, Lyon's investigation of Madison Hobley---an inmate on Illinois' death row for over 16 years---helped secure his pardon from outgoing Governor George Ryan in Illinois. Lyon has investigated over 30 death penalty cases and has helped multiple clients secure sentences other than death. Since Lyon started his ........th.net website two years ago, he has provided internet investigation training to audiences across the country, including the National Defense Investigator Association's annual conference in Chicago.

www.law.depaul.edu/centers_institutes/cjcc/mitigation_faculty.asp

 

[cyberborg]

Question...if RK's girlfriend was an employee of the OC jail, wouldn't we have found this out in big bold newspaper headlines by now? Any journalist worth his or her salt would be able to track this down in a heartbeat. How about just simply keeping RK in their sights? Surely, he must be "seeing" this so-called girlfriend. Following her would surely lead to her place of employment. IMO....there's nothing here.

Exactly!!! Until I see real confirmation as far as I am concerned this is an urban myth started by LP. Creative thinking to try to connect RK.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[hroark2112]

Along the lines of the press turning on your in the blink of an eye, I'll bet that if there was any kind of credible evidence that RK actually had anything to do with the disappearance or death of Caylee, the press would be running all kinds of special reports, expose's and banner headlines about how the State rushed to judgement and wrongfully accused KC. Over 18 months after this whole thing started and there hasn't been one credible journalist who has come forward with a shred of evidence pointing to anyone else.

RK hasn't done a thing wrong in this case, and everyone knows it, even the defense.

 

[cyberborg]

Along the lines of the press turning on your in the blink of an eye, I'll bet that if there was any kind of credible evidence that RK actually had anything to do with the disappearance or death of Caylee, the press would be running all kinds of special reports, expose's and banner headlines about how the State rushed to judgement and wrongfully accused KC. Over 18 months after this whole thing started and there hasn't been one credible journalist who has come forward with a shred of evidence pointing to anyone else.

RK hasn't done a thing wrong in this case, and everyone knows it, even the defense.

I completely agree. Things are pretty slow on this case now and will get even slower.

If there was any inkling of a scandal, a daisy chain, a connection to RK the media would run with that big-time to get the same mileage as the last 2 years all over again. The media love twists and turns, especially when it equates to viewership, ratings and, advertising.

They will report on you on your way up and do the same on your way down.

 

[JBean]

I don't believe this road leads to her. Do you have some information that shows that? That chain has been checked time and again and its just not there. Jk and Cs have convinced me that Rk is not just some nice man that happened upon the body. There will be more depo's to follow. They will check police records and hospital records. I read something disturbing today in Dc emails when I was looking for info. It appeared that Ca knew about Bs almost a year ago. Maybe I am mistaken. Moo

Okay that is just another topic that cannot be answered in a couple posts, but rather would be a full debate of evidence and ideas. So let's not do that here ok?
Let's stay on the topic of the motion to perptuate the testimony of Jill kerley.

Assuming even if Jill's claims were true would it even matter to this case? Would the fact that RK potentially has a darker side even impact the other evidence? I am inclined to think not because if he hasn't been already, RK could be checked out very easily and imo would be very easy to rule in or out. This is the main reason i would think LE would do a thorough investigation to keep this from becoming the reasonable doubt.

OTOH,If there is a juror that has been a victim of domestic violence and finds JK's testimony to be credible then perhaps they might read more into RK's behavior surrounding the discovery of the remains to be suspect. but even at that, would it matter? It seems it could be easily settled in their mind with a simple investigation.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I completely agree. Things are pretty slow on this case now and will get even slower.

If there was any inkling of a scandal, a daisy chain, a connection to RK the media would run with that big-time to get the same mileage as the last 2 years all over again. The media love twists and turns, especially when it equates to viewership, ratings and, advertising.

They will report on you on your way up and do the same on your way down.

Yes they will. The lack of media attention given to this ploy, by the defense, demonstrates the weakness of their allegations. It's really sad, if this is the best the defense has.

 

[cyberborg]

To me the Defense has 3 goals in obtaining JK's testimony:

1. To demonstrate, in their opinion, that LE has not investigated RK sufficiently thus focused too quickly on KC and maybe missed other potential suspects and specifically SODDI.

Result: Question Methods and Procedures. Open SODDI possibility.

2. To impeach the hero image of RK to shed further doubt on his story on how he located Caylee, to open the door to Caylee being placed while KC was in jail.

Result: Create Doubt about RK's Story. Open door to TES search investigations.

3. As a distraction, when needed, to take the focus of KC and change the debate to other 'Perps' and open the door to other possibilities, such as SODDI.

Result: Confusion and Distraction, Open door to Conspiracy Theories.

I do not honestly believe, other than taking JK's depo that the Defense is going to invest time or money in investigating RK further, he has served his purpose. They will just leave the door open to imagination and speculation rather than conclude and close it.

Result: The seed is planted, nurture it and, let it blossom.

 

[JBean]

To me the Defense has 3 goals in obtaining JK's testimony:

1. To demonstrate, in their opinion, that LE has not investigated RK sufficiently thus focused too quickly on KC and maybe missed other potential suspects and specifically SODDI.

Result: Question Methods and Procedures. Open SODDI possibility.

2. To impeach the hero image of RK to shed further doubt on his story on how he located Caylee, to open the door to Caylee being placed while KC was in jail.

Result: Create Doubt about RK's Story. Open door to TES search investigations.

3. As a distraction, when needed, to take the focus of KC and change the debate to other 'Perps' and open the door to other possibilities, such as SODDI.

Result: Confusion and Distraction, Open door to Conspiracy Theories.

I do not honestly believe, other than taking JK's depo that the Defense is going to invest time or money in investigating RK further, he has served his purpose. They will just leave the door open to imagination and speculation rather than conclude and close it.

Result: The seed is planted, nurture it and, let it blossom.

So if the doubt could blossom why not just squash it by doing a complete investigation on Kronk? Ez and that is the end of that.
I am hoping that they have because in reality I don't think we know for sure. If they haven't I hope they do to tell you the truth. I understand that he is not on trial, but it would be nice to do the exra work for a capital case. Conclude and close it.

 

[cyberborg]

So if the doubt could blossom why not just squash it by doing a complete investigation on Kronk? Ez and that is the end of that.
I am hoping that they have because in reality I don't think we know for sure. If they haven't I hope they do to tell you the truth. I understand that he is not on trial, but it would be nice to do the exra work for a capital case. Conclude and close it.

From a Defense perspective they want to nurture it.

From a Prosecution perspective you are correct!! Investigate and nip it in the bud.

However, to me that's a catch-22 in that it also plays into the Defense game and they can cry "Gotcha!, see, see, LE didn't investigate and we showed them up and caught them out".

Hopefully LE already did investigate sufficiently to conclude RK was not a POI -- but -- I doubt they went to the extremes the Defense did, in digging up dirt from RK's ex'es so while the Prosecution sees no merit in this 'distraction' the Defense use it as noise to make a point that they didn't investigate fully (when they did for what was pertinent).

Different standards and ethics in investigation BUT it confuses everyone. IMO. You can investigate everyone forever and every connection.

The key to bring it in is whether it passes muster as being relevent/pertinent so LE stopped at that point but the Defense just moved the goal posts.......

 

[RR0004]

Okay that is just another topic that cannot be answered in a couple posts, but rather would be a full debate of evidence and ideas. So let's not do that here ok?
Let's stay on the topic of the motion to perptuate the testimony of Jill kerley.

Assuming even if Jill's claims were true would it even matter to this case? Would the fact that RK potentially has a darker side even impact the other evidence? I am inclined to think not because if he hasn't been already, RK could be checked out very easily and imo would be very easy to rule in or out. This is the main reason i would think LE would do a thorough investigation to keep this from becoming the reasonable doubt.

OTOH,If there is a juror that has been a victim of domestic violence and finds JK's testimony to be credible then perhaps they might read more into RK's behavior surrounding the discovery of the remains to be suspect. but even at that, would it matter? It seems it could be easily settled in their mind with a simple investigation.

RK's involvement in anything sinister does not fit with Miss Casey's very own story. I don't see how the defense can get past this. Casey said ZFG took her child. What can the defense do without putting Casey on the stand to deny her version of events? Change her story for her? Come up with their own story? I think they've boxed themselves in here. JK is entitled to her opinions...but I, for the life of me, can't figure out how this jives with what we've learned from Casey herself.
Version 1: She left Caylee with a nanny who was a female and waited for said female to return with her child.
Version 2: She had her daughter taken from her by 2 females (one being said nanny) in a park.
This whole "let's connect RK" with one of Casey's friends is DC's sorry little brainchild. Everything seems to have sprouted out of this twisted thinking (and sorry a$$ attempt to save Casey) and IMO just makes the defense look...well, for lack of a better word...twisted themselves.
They're just going to have to do better than this if they're hoping to save Casey's life.

 

[seekingjustice**]

RK's involvement in anything sinister does not fit with Miss Casey's very own story. I don't see how the defense can get past this. Casey said ZFG took her child. What can the defense do without putting Casey on the stand to deny her version of events? Change her story for her? Come up with their own story? I think they've boxed themselves in here. JK is entitled to her opinions...but I, for the life of me, can't figure out how this jives with what we've learned from Casey herself.
Version 1: She left Caylee with a nanny who was a female and waited for said female to return with her child.
Version 2: She had her daughter taken from her by 2 females (one being said nanny) in a park.
This whole "let's connect RK" with one of Casey's friends is DC's sorry little brainchild. Everything seems to have sprouted out of this twisted thinking (and sorry a$$ attempt to save Casey) and IMO just makes the defense look...well, for lack of a better word...twisted themselves.
They're just going to have to do better than this if they're hoping to save Casey's life.

Excellent post RR .. I just have no doubt that the Jury (should we get that far) will see this for what it is... a bit of spaghetti (RK) flung at the wall.. No-one will EVER be able to get past the 31 'carefree' days of partying and enjoying her life to the max etc...

 

[Tuffy]

OTOH,If there is a juror that has been a victim of domestic violence and finds JK's testimony to be credible then perhaps they might read more into RK's behavior surrounding the discovery of the remains to be suspect. but even at that, would it matter? It seems it could be easily settled in their mind with a simple investigation.

snipped and BBM

Ok, I have been a victim of domestic violence, and this is my take on her: I not only don't buy her story, but she offends me. She claims to have been kidnapped and victimized by RK, but does nothing about it and doesn't report it. She waits for years, then attacks him in the press, with no proof, nothing to back up her story. We're just supposed to take her word for it.

If I were a juror I would have the same question for JK, as I would for Casey: Why didn't your report the kidnapping when it happened? Is it because it didn't happen?

 

[LambChop]

When you look at JK's demeanor now and look at RK, I would conclude that RK was more of the victim. If JK was ever restrained it may have been RK's way of protecting himself. I would not doubt there was some violence in that home, just that it was not RK who was the offender. I believe he left because of it. JMO

 

[Tulessa]

All roads lead to Rome. I love it. And soo accurate!!

 

[JBean]

I agree she may be lying and completely understand why many think that she is. But, I just don't have enough facts about the claims to possibly make a determination and fortunately I don't need to.
I see both sides of it and the reality is that Kronk is not on trial.

But as I say let's assume worst case scenario that this is true..does it matter? Why?
Maybe we can move along those lines with this thread, because we don't possibly have enough information to debate the merits of her accusations with any kind of certainty. She seems easily impeachable, but is it even necessary?

http://www.examiner.com/x-17770-Sac...tims-of-domestic-violence-do-not-report-abuse

 

[JBean]

snipped and BBM

Ok, I have been a victim of domestic violence, and this is my take on her: I not only don't buy her story, but she offends me. She claims to have been kidnapped and victimized by RK, but does nothing about it and doesn't report it. She waits for years, then attacks him in the press, with no proof, nothing to back up her story. We're just supposed to take her word for it.

If I were a juror I would have the same question for JK, as I would for Casey: Why didn't your report the kidnapping when it happened? Is it because it didn't happen?

======================================================
According to a recent survey conducted by a national crime victims organization in California, the top three reasons domestic violence victims victims don't report the abuse are: 1.) Fear. Many victims are too afraid that if they report the abuse the batterer will kill them, harm their children or other family members and pets. 2.) Reporting domestic violence can be demoralizing. Victims are ashamed and often too embarrassed to report to law enforcement. Many victims suffer in silence believing that they some how deserve to be abused emotionally or physically. 3.) No guarantee that reporting will lead to an arrest or conviction. More and more victims of domestic violence are being warned by domestic violence agencies and organizations that reporting the abuse will not necessarily lead to an arrest or a conviction. In California in particular, facing a dire budget crisis and prison over population often lead to early release of batterers and little if any jail time.

http://www.examiner.com/x-17770-Sacramento-Abusive-Relationships-Examiner~y2009m7d20-Many-victims-of-domestic-violence-do-not-report-abuse

 

[JBean]

When you look at JK's demeanor now and look at RK, I would conclude that RK was more of the victim. If JK was ever restrained it may have been RK's way of protecting himself. I would not doubt there was some violence in that home, just that it was not RK who was the offender. I believe he left because of it. JMO

Wow! that is quite a conclusion based on demeanor.

 

[JBean]

Well I think this is the start and to lead to other depositions that may establish that he is the type of person that would hurt a small child. So, it is my opinion that this is more than just impeachment, but Jb is saying it is just impeachment. On the other hand if they just establish that the body wasn't there in August, they can use jail as an alibi for Kc. Not just to impeach him, but show that he lies and he was lieing that day back in August. That may create some reasonable doubt for the jurrors. Moo

IMO, capable of hurting a small child is quite a leap and I disagree completely. I think the defense is pretty clear that their motivation is only to raise the red flag as to why he wasn't investigated, which will create doubt regarding the investigation by LE.
You are on a slippery slope nts, because Kronk is not on trial here and your statements about him being a liar are no more founded than saying that JK is a liar. none of us have any clue at all and am trying to steer the conversation away from those kinds of conclusions and blanket statements when we have no evidence that either person is lying. We have no idea at all at this point.

Establishing that the body wasn't there in August would have nothing to to do with this testimony and is best left to the experts and should be debated in another thread.

 

[LandAuxvasse]

Well I think this is the start and to lead to other depositions that may establish that he is the type of person that would hurt a small child. So, it is my opinion that this is more than just impeachment, but Jb is saying it is just impeachment. On the other hand if they just establish that the body wasn't there in August, they can use jail as an alibi for Kc. Not just to impeach him, but show that he lies and he was lieing that day back in August. That may create some reasonable doubt for the jurrors. Moo

I agree it could be used to impeach RK, but I do not see it connecting him to the death of Caylee or to establish that he is the type to hurt small children. Therefore, I don't believe her testimony will affect the outcome of the trial in any way.

 

[The World According]

It is natural to focus on what is present, but when you think of this attempt in the big picture, it is much less of a concern. This is just the latest, not the first and surely not the last attempt to deflect attention from Casey. In the beginning they even tried to have the prosecutors sanctioned and thrown off the case....with....guess what.....no proof, real or imagined, to back up their claims about them. Remember this little gem?[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXvo0lxnbGI&feature=player_embedded[/ame]