Mr. Chaz Bono on Oprah, Mon. May 9, 2011

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Not sure how anybody can say that it's not true that people are born either male or female.
:waitasec:

Because it's not true, doctors have know it for a long time. They are the experts who have experience with this.

Sex differences have been observed and studied for a long time and it's a fact that not everyone is born distinctly male or female. Doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else feels about this, the reality is that it's not black and white, there is a lot of grey area when calling someone a male or a female.

So what do you do if someone is not definitely male or female? They either live as an in-between or they get medical procedures to make them fit better in one of the two categories.
 
Craziest thing I've ever heard of in my life.

I know there are some babies that have a genetic defect that parents must choose for them. But thank God, that's not very common.
 
You can't have too much love in this world .Loving couples,families,births,adoptions ,celebrations.
That's all that really matters.

JUST MY OPINION
 
That's true. I trained with a mom who has two kids born with male and female. One is a "boy" and one is a "girl". They're young adults now. They were part of a study and received health care at NIH.
 
People dye their hair ,straighten their hair,curl their hair ,cut their hair ,change their names, paint their faces ,fingers and toes.
Wigs,toupee's,breast augmentation,breast reduction,shaving.
Pierced ears ,tattoos, face lifts ,colored contacts,and tanning booths,weight lifting and diets,
all because a person wants to change something about themselves.
 
just a heads up for anyone who is interested, "becoming chaz" is coming on OWN in an hour.
 
People dye their hair ,straighten their hair,curl their hair ,cut their hair ,change their names, paint their faces ,fingers and toes.
Wigs,toupee's,breast augmentation,breast reduction,shaving.
Pierced ears ,tattoos, face lifts ,colored contacts,and tanning booths,weight lifting and diets,
all because a person wants to change something about themselves.

I left the most important sentence out. These are personal choices and are not illegal or immoral. Why are Chaz' choices so very different ? I don't see it that way.
 
Well, since you asked. :smile:

All those things you listed do not require the mutilation of your sexual organs and pump your body full of hormones to treat a psychological disorder.

JMO
 
Well, since you asked. :smile:

All those things you listed do not require the mutilation of your sexual organs and pump your body full of hormones to treat a psychological disorder.

JMO

BBM Except it's not simply a "psychological disorder". Sigh......:banghead:
 
If gender identity disorder is not concurrent with a physical intersex condition, it is a mental disorder.

IMO it should be treated as such.

ETA: IMO, mental disorders should be treated by a psychiatrist, not a surgeon.
 
If gender identity disorder is not concurrent with a physical intersex condition, it is a mental disorder.

IMO it should be treated as such.

ETA: IMO, mental disorders should be treated by a psychiatrist, not a surgeon.

I believe before transgender treatment or surgery it's generally required that the person be evaluated and receive extensive counseling . Years before the surgery can be done.

I just don't think the people who are going to such great lengths are doing it on a whim. We hear time and again about the suffering and depression they have endured .
I don't want anyone to suffer that way if they can change it and they WANT to make the change.
It's their right .
This isn't about sex or perversion. It's no different ,IMO than someone who really wants to be a musician but they are forced to be a lawyer. You can be miserable or do something about it and be happy.
Life's too short.
JMO
 
Well, since you asked. :smile:

All those things you listed do not require the mutilation of your sexual organs and pump your body full of hormones to treat a psychological disorder.

JMO

Many are considered to be mutilation by others,like piercings,tattoos and breast augmentation.
There was a time in the United States,not that long ago, that it was scandalous ,blasphemous,for a woman to cut her hair.
It was supposed to be her crowning glory and dishonored God if she cut it. Only her husband was to see it worn down .


IVF and drugs to stimulate the ovaries can be considered unnatural,also. People (not me) can and have used the argument that it's playing God. Cuts both ways ,IMO.
 
I believe before transgender treatment or surgery it's generally required that the person be evaluated and receive extensive counseling . Years before the surgery can be done.

I just don't think the people who are going to such great lengths are doing it on a whim. We hear time and again about the suffering and depression they have endured .
I don't want anyone to suffer that way if they can change it and they WANT to make the change.
It's their right .
This isn't about sex or perversion. It's no different ,IMO than someone who really wants to be a musician but they are forced to be a lawyer. You can be miserable or do something about it and be happy.
Life's too short.
JMO

Have you checked the suicide rates post op?
The depression does not end because of the surgery.

Depression is a mental condition as well. Surgery does not change it.
 
Many are considered to be mutilation by others,like piercings,tattoos and breast augmentation.
There was a time in the United States,not that long ago, that it was scandalous ,blasphemous,for a woman to cut her hair.
It was supposed to be her crowning glory and dishonored God if she cut it. Only her husband was to see it worn down .


IVF and drugs to stimulate the ovaries can be considered unnatural,also. People (not me) can and have used the argument that it's playing God. Cuts both ways ,IMO.

Buy what I said was mutilation of sexual organs.

To me, that's not acceptable.

IVF and fertility medicine is in no way comparable to sex change operations.

They treat a physical medical condition (infertility) not a mental condition (gender identity disorder).

Implanting embryos or using a drug to induce ovulation is not mutilating sexual organs or trying to treat a mental disorder.
 
If gender identity disorder is not concurrent with a physical intersex condition, it is a mental disorder.

IMO it should be treated as such.


ETA: IMO, mental disorders should be treated by a psychiatrist, not a surgeon.

The very issue here is that people who are transgendered experience drastic misalignment between the emotional and the physical self.

More simply put - the brain is wired as female, and their male body parts don't match their brain.

Or, as in Chaz's case, vice-versa

As to the BBM above ... SAYS WHO? (i.e. link please.)

Oh nevermind.

Since no link was provided, I googled & found plenty of medical articles with the BBM phrase above in it discussing both psychotherapy and gender reassignment as treatment options.

Here one of the links - I'm not pulling out quotes - it's best read in entire context:

Clearly, (and as described in all transgendered person's experience), the process of working to resolve gender identity disorders involves medically appropriate psychotherapy. Even physical gender-reassignment, (including hormones and perhaps surgeries), when determined to be the best option, occurs with patients who have followed protocol, and who have already devoted significant time in psychiatric counseling.

Who's to say that altering body parts to match the way the brain is wired is not the better alternative to living a lie - in a body that betrays who you feel you really are?

I think the greater point here is that the resolution for this misalignment rightfully belongs to the individual - the transgender identified person, as counseled by his/her doctor and/or family. No one else needs to be involved in that choice, nor does anyone else's opinion, beliefs, or degree of discomfiture with the concept matter here.

Why should it? Perhaps we should be asking - what's the motivation for wanting to prevent these people from getting the treatment they and their doctors feel is the best solution for their situation? :dunno:

:cow:
 
The very issue here is that people who are transgendered experience drastic misalignment between the emotional and the physical self.

More simply put - the brain is wired as female, and their male body parts don't match their brain.

Or, as in Chaz's case, vice-versa

As to the BBM above ... SAYS WHO? (i.e. link please.)

Oh nevermind.

Since no link was provided, I googled & found plenty of medical articles with the BBM phrase above in it discussing both psychotherapy and gender reassignment as treatment options.

Here one of the links - I'm not pulling out quotes - it's best read in entire context:


Clearly, (and as described in all transgendered person's experience), the process of working to resolve gender identity disorders involves medically appropriate psychotherapy. Even physical gender-reassignment, (including hormones and perhaps surgeries), when determined to be the best option, occurs with patients who have followed protocol, and who have already devoted significant time in psychiatric counseling.

Who's to say that altering body parts to match the way the brain is wired is not the better alternative to living a lie - in a body that betrays who you feel you really are?

I think the greater point here is that the resolution for this misalignment rightfully belongs to the individual - the transgender identified person, as counseled by his/her doctor and/or family. No one else needs to be involved in that choice, nor does anyone else's opinion, beliefs, or degree of discomfiture with the concept matter here.

Why should it? Perhaps we should be asking - what's the motivation for wanting to prevent these people from getting the treatment they and their doctors feel is the best solution for their situation? :dunno:

:cow:

I agree.

What's the difference between straight women and men who use surgery to make themselves to feel more whole? Women who have breast reduction because (a family member said she felt like a freak)..... fill in the blanks. Men who take testosteron shots or pills.

If it makes ya happy and you aren't hurting another I say be happy.

IYKWIM (and I hope you do, on cold meds :crazy:)


I'll try to make my point better tomorrow.
 
Buy what I said was mutilation of sexual organs.

To me, that's not acceptable.


IVF and fertility medicine is in no way comparable to sex change operations.

They treat a physical medical condition (infertility) not a mental condition (gender identity disorder).

Implanting embryos or using a drug to induce ovulation is not mutilating sexual organs or trying to treat a mental disorder.
BBM
And you have the right to that opinion.

I don't consider it mutilation any more than a breast reduction is for someone who is embarrassed by their oversized set that also gives them back pain.
Why isn't IVF comparable to a sex change?

IVF was very controversial when it was first made available. There were horrible accusations ,IMO. Playing God,defying nature ,test tube babies created in a lab, etc.....
There was a huge media frenzy about the first "test tube baby" ,Louise B.,in England. She was considered freakish by many .
Now it's just a way to have a baby.

What makes them comparable ? In both cases hormones are commonly used to get a desired result .
Also,the criticism ,the judgement people make,that because it's not what God or nature intended ,it must be wrong. The same.

But in both cases it makes the person doing it happy,fulfilled ,normal. The feelings are the same.The criticism of each procedure is the same.
The hurt is the same.

Just my opinion.
 
Have you checked the suicide rates post op?
The depression does not end because of the surgery.

Depression is a mental condition as well. Surgery does not change it.

I guess you haven't heard about my fifteen year old son,James,who committed suicide ,although my siggie.......never mind.

I know depression well. That's why I hope more people will start to understand and accept transgendered individuals. It must be horrible to feel so judged and criticized for trying to be yourself.I don't doubt the suicide rate is high. They are treated horribly .
 
BBM
And you have the right to that opinion.

I don't consider it mutilation any more than a breast reduction is for someone who is embarrassed by their oversized set that also gives them back pain.
Why isn't IVF comparable to a sex change?

IVF was very controversial when it was first made available. There were horrible accusations ,IMO. Playing God,defying nature ,test tube babies created in a lab, etc.....
There was a huge media frenzy about the first "test tube baby" ,Louise B.,in England. She was considered freakish by many .
Now it's just a way to have a baby.

What makes them comparable ? In both cases hormones are commonly used to get a desired result . Also,the criticism ,the judgement people make,that because it's not what God or nature intended ,it must be wrong. The same.

But in both cases it makes the person doing it happy,fulfilled ,normal. The feelings are the same.The criticism of each procedure is the same.
The hurt is the same.

Just my opinion.

I am fighting right now using estrogen therapy for hot flashes, if I use them am I wrong? I hope I can endure or better yet my family can endure LOL. Cranky here.
 

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