MS MS - Bay St Louis, WhtFem 37-42, UP2841, no teeth, 'black lung', emphysema, chron bronchitis, May'98

[bessie]

Since she was near a rest area along an interstate highway, she could've come from anywhere. The Appalachian region seems likely due to the black lung disease. It's not the only possibility, though. As I mentioned previously, there are carbon black manufacturers in south Louisiana in places like Addis, Centreville, and Ville Platte. South Texas has carbon black manufacturing plants, as well. Considering the proximity, I have to look at the possibility that the Doe had lived in one of those locations.

People who work in jobs where they are exposed to coal dust get pneumoconiosis. This includes working in a coal mine or loading coal for storage, working in a graphite mine or mill, and manufacturing carbon electrodes and carbon black.

http://www.lungusa.org/lung-disease/pneumoconiosis/understanding-pneumoconiosis.html

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=carbo...manufacturers&hnear=Louisiana&t=h&z=8&vpsrc=0

In 1998, there were 21 hospitalizations in Louisiana for CWP, 29 in 1999. (See p.27 of the pdf)
http://new.dhh.louisiana.gov/assets...alth/Documents/Final_Occ_Indicator_Report.pdf

 

[pearly]

Hi Bessie, I have got and seen the post mortem photos. More than likely I should be going off those rather than the sketch. And I do agree she could have come from anywhere! Very sad!

I do agree she would have definitely been an attractive woman. Are we thinking it might be worth contacting the mining companies in the more prominent mining areas?

And on another note is it worth submitting Tina? I know her picture has her having pierced ears and there may be some height/weight discrepancy but this can occur with any comparison. Something stuck when I saw her picture and saw she had dentures like the UID.

P

 

[ebbie]

I also think tina d'ambrosio resembles this uid though.....just my opinion. Would like to know others thoughts

I agree she looks similar and the hair is a good match....

Does it look like the glisten of an earring on the left though?

And as a side note I gotta know how do people so young end up with full dentures? I don't get it. Even the worst tooth care shouldn't result in all teeth decayed and falling out....(I'm thinking of my Dad who gets a 'C' grade for tooth care but still has many of his natural teeth.)

But yes, she looks similar.....

 

[ebbie]

Pearly, have you seen the post mortems? She looks very different from the sketches to me. I think she probably was rather attractive in life. D'ambrosio was, too, but I don't see much resemblance to the Doe.

We discussed the food in earlier posts. I think she might've eaten discarded food from visitors at the rest stop. I wonder if the person who left her stranded at the rest area was someone she knew or a stranger who was giving her a ride.

Her hair was dyed with a "touch of gray" at the temples. I don't think she had been wandering around homeless for long.

You know this is what bothers me..... she's wearing NO underwear or socks and has slippers on.... and yet she is together enough to dye her hair?

Her tox screen was negative but I would have bet the loss of teeth and unkempt appearance screams out of someone who was addicted to meth.

I suppose she could have been mentally ill though. Slippers are just not a seasoned transients choice of footwear! Just doesn't fit....

 

[ebbie]

Hi Bessie, I have got and seen the post mortem photos. More than likely I should be going off those rather than the sketch. And I do agree she could have come from anywhere! Very sad!

I do agree she would have definitely been an attractive woman. Are we thinking it might be worth contacting the mining companies in the more prominent mining areas?

And on another note is it worth submitting Tina? I know her picture has her having pierced ears and there may be some height/weight discrepancy but this can occur with any comparison. Something stuck when I saw her picture and saw she had dentures like the UID.

P

Pearly although I already responded to your previous post, I really do think she looks similar myself.....

I don't know the best thing to do but I think some verification of the black lung part would make sense before contacting mining companies... If she didn't literally have black lungs, then she doesn't necessarily have black lung disease as a major part of the diagnosis is proximity to coal/carbon dust and we just don't know that for sure. That is why it seems the only way one could definitely say she has black lung disease is if they find the carbon in her.

I also agree the dentures thing is a strong plus too.... I'm with you on Lisa although all the puzzle pieces are there yet....

 

[bessie]

I agree she looks similar and the hair is a good match....

Does it look like the glisten of an earring on the left though?

And as a side note I gotta know how do people so young end up with full dentures? I don't get it. Even the worst tooth care shouldn't result in all teeth decayed and falling out....(I'm thinking of my Dad who gets a 'C' grade for tooth care but still has many of his natural teeth.)

But yes, she looks similar.....

Something that has stood out to me while looking at MP reports is the great number of young women under 40 who have either partial or full dentures. Of course, in some cases the women have been missing since the 70's or earlier. Preventive dental care has improved in the last decades.

 

[ebbie]

Does anyone know how to locate "exit 2, mile marker 4" on I-10? I am wondering if there is anything nearby that she was walking to or from. With slippers on, a hospital or shelter came to my mind.

Also I noticed that New Orleans is only around 40 miles away AND Florida (her sweatshirt logo) is only 150 miles maybe.

All very short distances....

 

[bessie]

Hi Bessie, I have got and seen the post mortem photos. More than likely I should be going off those rather than the sketch. And I do agree she could have come from anywhere! Very sad!

I do agree she would have definitely been an attractive woman. Are we thinking it might be worth contacting the mining companies in the more prominent mining areas?

And on another note is it worth submitting Tina? I know her picture has her having pierced ears and there may be some height/weight discrepancy but this can occur with any comparison. Something stuck when I saw her picture and saw she had dentures like the UID.

P

Pearly, I'm not the best person to advise you on this, but it's a good idea to match three or four relevant characteristics before submitting. In Tina's case, if she really has pierced ears, I'd say that would rule her out.

 

[pearly]

Ebbie,

Merry Christmas from Australia!

It is odd that she is not wearing underwear or socks but is wearing slippers!

When I get back home I might contact ME and see what actual evidence there was that she had black lung! Also I can submit Tina as a potential while I'm at it.

I will also query if there was evidence of drug use I.e track marks. If anyone has questions they would like answered please let me know.

P

 

[CarlK90245]

Does anyone know how to locate "exit 2, mile marker 4" on I-10? I am wondering if there is anything nearby that she was walking to or from. With slippers on, a hospital or shelter came to my mind.

Also I noticed that New Orleans is only around 40 miles away AND Florida (her sweatshirt logo) is only 150 miles maybe.

All very short distances....

Here is mile marker 4 on the eastbound side of I-10. It's about a mile and a half east of a highway rest-stop, which (I believe) is exit 2.

Shuttle Parkway, mississippi map - Google Maps

 

[q64ceo]

What about this potential match?

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/1088/17 - Anita Gunn (details at link)

Sorry but the circumstances of her going missing does not indicate that she went missing willingly.

She moved back in with her husband the day she was last seen. So, you can draw your own conclusions for that.

 

[ebbie]

Here is mile marker 4 on the eastbound side of I-10. It's about a mile and a half east of a highway rest-stop, which (I believe) is exit 2.

Shuttle Parkway, mississippi map - Google Maps

Wow! Thanks Carl. Thats truly in the middle of nowhere! No buildings, nothing, just trees or scrub. I would venture to guess she was hitchhiking in a vehicle coming from New Orleans or Baton Rouge and was dropped off at the rest area and started walking east (maybe to go back to Florida...There is a good chance her "Florida" shirt represents some connection).....

Although she was wearing a black hoodie which isn't too smart on a highway, I'm wondering why the boys/men in the car didn't see her. Did she wander into the road? Did they fall asleep and clip her as she walked on the shoulder? Did she purposely run into traffic as a form of suicide? They claimed they thought they hit a deer but deer run into traffic quickly before there is a chance to react and people usually do not.

 

[ebbie]

Probably obvious, but her last meal of pickles and fries (no burger) indicates she was eating someone's leftovers who picked the pickles off their hamburger and didn't eat them. Also the person didn't eat all their fries before discarding the meal.

Could it be that the thick brown liquid in her stomach actually was a burger ground up? With no teeth, maybe she needed certain foods pureed. I know this is odd but no one has had an idea on this thick brown liquid. Gravy? Ground up burger? Strange thick coffee?

 

[Ambercat]

Could it be that the thick brown liquid in her stomach actually was a burger ground up? With no teeth, maybe she needed certain foods pureed. I know this is odd but no one has had an idea on this thick brown liquid. Gravy? Ground up burger? Strange thick coffee?

I thought it might be barbecue sauce. Some people, including myself, have it with fries instead of ketchup. I don't know if she would have that much choice in condiments if she was forced to eat other people's left overs to survive though.

 

[ebbie]

I might have another possibility. I don't recall Nelda Louise Hardwick being mentioned.

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/625/5
http://doenetwork.org/cases/1002dfla.html


PROS:
Height off by only 1/2".
She had four children which is consistent with UID's childbirth scars.
She lived in Lake Charles, LA which is coincidentally right ON I-10...200 miles away but on the same road UID was found on.
She had full dentures
Her pics show no earrings and no bangs...
Eyes listed as Hazel...(not gray but I didn't get any hits for gray eyes on my search of Namus...)

CONS:
Time gap of 4+ years.....It didn't take 4 years to go 200 miles so its hard to believe a MP could remain undercover in the same area for so long.
DNA submitted
Unless from injury, UID seems to have a fairly square chin/jaw....which Nelda doesn't seem to have.

 

[Angie4b1g]

I thought it might be barbecue sauce. Some people, including myself, have it with fries instead of ketchup. I don't know if she would have that much choice in condiments if she was forced to eat other people's left overs to survive though.

I was thinking gravy for the fries.

 

[nerosleuth]

I do feel that the black lung condition could be the key here. However, the key question here is just what kind of a black lung condition did she have? And was the black lung condition from an industrial occupation?

If she was from a coal mining region from the Appalachians or from the West Coast, some possible occupations working in the coal industry are working as a miner, a loader loading coal on coal trucks, or loading coal barges on the river, or a coal truck driver. Another possibility is that she may have lived near a coal tipple. I do know that winds are known to pick up coal dust from a coal tipple.

Another possibility that was mentioned here was that she could have been in an occupation that involved black carbon dust.

I do think that there is a good possibility that she could have worked in an industrial setting somewhere, perhaps in an occupation where she was exposed to black dust or powder of some kind involving machinery.

 

[reasypeasy]

I was thinking gravy for the fries.

Gravy as I know it and eaten in usual quantities probably wouldn't stay thick and brown (rather than say brownish or tan) once it hits stomach juices.

Maybe she ate a meal of deep fried pickles and french fries, followed by a big slice of chocolate mudcake.

 

[ebbie]

I do feel that the black lung condition could be the key here.

I agree this is important and needs some clarification by the coroner.

Gravy as I know it and eaten in usual quantities probably wouldn't stay thick and brown (rather than say brownish or tan) once it hits stomach juices.

Maybe she ate a meal of deep fried pickles and french fries, followed by a big slice of chocolate mudcake.

Chocolate cake hadn't entered my mind but you're right that would do it.

Funny....I was thinking how difficult it would be to ID stomach contents in general just by sight. Obviously, taste or smell is the best sense with which to identify food but thats out!! Just looking at partially digested chewed food has to make the coroner or technician just want to hurl..... forget about smelling it.

 

[pearly]

I will be sending an email to LE in the next couple of days so any questions, please let me know