My conclusion: murder and attempted suicide

[4everenslaved]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here and thought I'd share my thoughts on the Darlie case (if you guys are not sick of hearing newb opinions already!)

Like many here, I wanted Darlie to be innocent. I really REALLY wanted her to be innocent. And I still do. Unfortunately, very recently (only in the past few days!) I have come to realise that she isn't.

However, I do not believe she calculatedly killed the boys in cold blood. I don't believe the crime was premeditated or planned in any way. I think she intended to take her own life after the murders.

I believe a combination of many factors led to her snapping one night and carrying out this atrocity. We know she had suicidal intentions a few weeks before the murders. An increasingly unhappy marriage, financial difficulties, postpartum depression, instability from diet pills and perhaps other hormonal problems (I read somewhere she didn't get her period for a year preceding the murders! :what would have consolidated these suicidal feelings and led her to decide to take her life. I believe she was a deeply disturbed individual, suffering from histrionic personality disorder on top of suicidal depression who wanted to avenge her problems with Darin by punishing him in the worst way possible.

I believe she was furious and her self-esteem was at an all-time low when she went to sleep that night after her and Darin discussed separation. I believe she was suicidal, and had been for many months and intended to kill herself after taking the lives of the boys.

For whatever reason (fear, pain...) she couldn't follow through with the suicide, and panicked, making the decision within seconds to create the intruder scenario and stage the crime scene. I believed Darin helped her stage the crime scene.

There are many reasons why I have reached this conclusion, but I think the main one is the fact that this case is so damn complicated. I don't think the prosecution's argument of Darlie committing the murders in cold blood, with no mitigating circumstances and actively taking glee in the deaths of her sons adds up. I also don't believe Darlie's argument of an intruder holds up either - the fibres on the knife are damning.

That is what leads me to believe that the crime scene was staged, very very quickly and without much planning. I believe that if Darlie had planned to kill her sons and carried out the crime in a cold, calculated manner that the crime scene would have been staged MUCH more carefully. The footprint under the vacumn and the blood being washed away from the sink are indicators that Darlie just didn't think the logistics of staging the crime scene through very well. And that has what always stood out for me.

I also don't believe enough has EVER been made of her suicidal intentions in the weeks/months before the murders.

I have no opinion as of yet what her family may really know about what happened that night. I do know that I feel deeply sorry for Drake,Darlie Kee and her other daughter.

I admit from the beginning I have not read the transcripts - this is just the conclusion I have formed what I have read - various forums, pro and anti-Darlie websites, youtube documentaries, etc, etc. Thought I'd share

 

[txsvicki]

I haven't seen anyone else with the same opinion, and am definitely not as knowledgeable about the case as most here, but I've always thought the suicide type talk in her diary might have been about the boys' deaths and not her own. To me, the crime seems premeditated due to the staging and the wounds seem to have a pattern and forethought. IMO, hers were similar in the pattern to the boys' but of course, much less deadly.

 

[LadyL]

I believe it was premeditated. I think she's a psychopath.

 

[cami]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here and thought I'd share my thoughts on the Darlie case (if you guys are not sick of hearing newb opinions already!)

Like many here, I wanted Darlie to be innocent. I really REALLY wanted her to be innocent. And I still do. Unfortunately, very recently (only in the past few days!) I have come to realise that she isn't.

However, I do not believe she calculatedly killed the boys in cold blood. I don't believe the crime was premeditated or planned in any way. I think she intended to take her own life after the murders.

I believe a combination of many factors led to her snapping one night and carrying out this atrocity. We know she had suicidal intentions a few weeks before the murders. An increasingly unhappy marriage, financial difficulties, postpartum depression, instability from diet pills and perhaps other hormonal problems (I read somewhere she didn't get her period for a year preceding the murders! :what would have consolidated these suicidal feelings and led her to decide to take her life. I believe she was a deeply disturbed individual, suffering from histrionic personality disorder on top of suicidal depression who wanted to avenge her problems with Darin by punishing him in the worst way possible.

I believe she was furious and her self-esteem was at an all-time low when she went to sleep that night after her and Darin discussed separation. I believe she was suicidal, and had been for many months and intended to kill herself after taking the lives of the boys.

For whatever reason (fear, pain...) she couldn't follow through with the suicide, and panicked, making the decision within seconds to create the intruder scenario and stage the crime scene. I believed Darin helped her stage the crime scene.

There are many reasons why I have reached this conclusion, but I think the main one is the fact that this case is so damn complicated. I don't think the prosecution's argument of Darlie committing the murders in cold blood, with no mitigating circumstances and actively taking glee in the deaths of her sons adds up. I also don't believe Darlie's argument of an intruder holds up either - the fibres on the knife are damning.

That is what leads me to believe that the crime scene was staged, very very quickly and without much planning. I believe that if Darlie had planned to kill her sons and carried out the crime in a cold, calculated manner that the crime scene would have been staged MUCH more carefully. The footprint under the vacumn and the blood being washed away from the sink are indicators that Darlie just didn't think the logistics of staging the crime scene through very well. And that has what always stood out for me.

I also don't believe enough has EVER been made of her suicidal intentions in the weeks/months before the murders.

I have no opinion as of yet what her family may really know about what happened that night. I do know that I feel deeply sorry for Drake,Darlie Kee and her other daughter.

I admit from the beginning I have not read the transcripts - this is just the conclusion I have formed what I have read - various forums, pro and anti-Darlie websites, youtube documentaries, etc, etc. Thought I'd share

ITA with your assessment. However Darlie refused to allow her attorneys to use the mitigating factors, she went for straight innocence. Maybe in her plea for mercy these things will come out but I doubt it. She will not admit she killed the children.

You need to look at premediation even if it was only minutes. The cut screen leads to it or could as there is no blood outside anywhere so it's not likely she stabbed the children prior to cutting the screen.

I too believe these murders were revenge on Darin. Her anger on the 911 call leads me to believe this.

 

[4everenslaved]

Thanks Cami, I know you are something of an expert on this case so it means a lot to know that you agree!

The 911 call has always been a source of confusion for me.

On one hand, her hysteria and panic could lead you to believe that she is telling the truth - or, at least, hugely remorseful for the act she carried out earlier. At points, she really does seem tormented. For example, when she screams ''Karen!!'' (or could it be 'Darin!!'') - that pains me, it seems genuine...in some way. Similarly with the ''hurry, please hurry'', and asking about the ambulance etc. I don't know, when I first heard the call all I could think of was INNOCENCE. We know Darlie is a poor actress from her post-conviction interviews, but....some things in that call just make my heart reach out to her.

On the other hand, the ''somebody came in here intentionally and did it DARIN'', and the ''Darin...I promise'' are hugely damning. Also, I'm no expert - thankfully I've never had to make a 911 call myself - but I'm guessing the standard 911 call goes something along the lines off ''we need an ambulance - this is my address - HURRY!!!!'' I think a lot of unnecessary information was given on the call and it was unnecessarily long. Like I said, though, I am no expert.

The call still confuses me a lot.

 

[TXN4LIFE]

When do ya'll believe that Damon was stabbed the second time? After it was figured out that he was stabbed twice, I first thought that she hollered DARIN and not Karen, to notify him that maybe Damon moved? I cant remember the timeline, but could he have been stabbed the 2nd time while Darin was downstairs? Seems odd to me that she would holler for Karen.

 

[cami]

Thanks Cami, I know you are something of an expert on this case so it means a lot to know that you agree!

The 911 call has always been a source of confusion for me.

On one hand, her hysteria and panic could lead you to believe that she is telling the truth - or, at least, hugely remorseful for the act she carried out earlier. At points, she really does seem tormented. For example, when she screams ''Karen!!'' (or could it be 'Darin!!'') - that pains me, it seems genuine...in some way. Similarly with the ''hurry, please hurry'', and asking about the ambulance etc. I don't know, when I first heard the call all I could think of was INNOCENCE. We know Darlie is a poor actress from her post-conviction interviews, but....some things in that call just make my heart reach out to her.

On the other hand, the ''somebody came in here intentionally and did it DARIN'', and the ''Darin...I promise'' are hugely damning. Also, I'm no expert - thankfully I've never had to make a 911 call myself - but I'm guessing the standard 911 call goes something along the lines off ''we need an ambulance - this is my address - HURRY!!!!'' I think a lot of unnecessary information was given on the call and it was unnecessarily long. Like I said, though, I am no expert.

The call still confuses me a lot.

I thought the same thing too, until I listened to the call a few times and then I got it, guilt all over that call. She's screaming yeah but she's not hysterical. There are too many things we hear her say. Like at 1:05 she says Damon, Damon, Damon, she hisses it in a pissed off voice and trying to sheild her voice from the operator. Why? I believe she was bleeding too much herself and she got scared and that's why that call was placed when it was. The state was right to hold it as evidence.

 

[cami]

When do ya'll believe that Damon was stabbed the second time? After it was figured out that he was stabbed twice, I first thought that she hollered DARIN and not Karen, to notify him that maybe Damon moved? I cant remember the timeline, but could he have been stabbed the 2nd time while Darin was downstairs? Seems odd to me that she would holler for Karen.

It's hard to tell whether she says Karen or Darin. I really do not believe Darin had anything to do with the stabbings of his boys so I believe Damon was already stabbed the second time prior to Darin's coming down, but I am just not sure. But Darin can be heard saying "get somebody" so maybe she did scream Karen just to please him. Who knows? Only Darlie and Darin.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I just re-read the transcript of the 911 call. There's a lot wrong with it. Darlee doesn't immdiately ask for help, she starts by saying what happened (BBM):

00:00:00 911 Operator #1 ...Rowlett 911...what is your emergency..
00:01:19 Darlie Routier ...somebody came here...they broke in...
00:03:27 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am...
00:05:11 Darlie Routier ...they just stabbed me and my children...
00:07:16 911 Operator #1 ...what...
00:08:05 Darlie Routier ...they just stabbed me and my kids...my little boys...
00:09:24 911 Operator #1 ...who...who did...
00:11:12 Darlie Routier ...my little boy is dying...

The 911 operator is the first to mention the ambulance.

In addition, Darlee said she was sleeping when the stabbings occurred. She wavers between seeing one or two men running
out through the garage.

02:02:20 Darlie Routier ...some man ...came in ...stabbed my babies ...stabbed me ...I woke up ...I was fighting ...he ran out through the garage ...threw the knife down ...my babies are dying ...they're dead ...oh my God...

04:35:12 Darin Routier ...they took (unintelligible) ...they ran (unintelligible)...

04:44:10 Darlie Routier ...oh my God ...oh my God ...why would they do this...

05:19:09 Darlie Routier ...somebody who did it intentionally walked in here and did it Darin...

She was already covering for fingerprints and again using the singular for the perp:

05:04:21 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible) his knife was lying over there and I already picked it up...

05:09:20 Darlie Routier ...God ...I bet if we could have gotten the prints maybe ...maybe...

That tells the story for me. If she had been telling the truth, she wouldn't have had such inconsistencies in the call.

http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/911Call/transcript.html

 

[cami]

I just re-read the transcript of the 911 call. There's a lot wrong with it. Darlee doesn't immdiately ask for help, she starts by saying what happened (BBM):



The 911 operator is the first to mention the ambulance.

In addition, Darlee said she was sleeping when the stabbings occurred. She wavers between seeing one or two men running
out through the garage.









She was already covering for fingerprints and again using the singular for the perp:



That tells the story for me. If she had been telling the truth, she wouldn't have had such inconsistencies in the call.

http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/911Call/transcript.html

I don't hear Darin saying that at all, LOL, must get new speakers. What I do hear is Darin saying, "can't make it if they don't get here"

 

[Vhead]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here and thought I'd share my thoughts on the Darlie case (if you guys are not sick of hearing newb opinions already!)

Like many here, I wanted Darlie to be innocent. I really REALLY wanted her to be innocent. And I still do. Unfortunately, very recently (only in the past few days!) I have come to realise that she isn't.

However, I do not believe she calculatedly killed the boys in cold blood. I don't believe the crime was premeditated or planned in any way. I think she intended to take her own life after the murders.

I believe a combination of many factors led to her snapping one night and carrying out this atrocity. We know she had suicidal intentions a few weeks before the murders. An increasingly unhappy marriage, financial difficulties, postpartum depression, instability from diet pills and perhaps other hormonal problems (I read somewhere she didn't get her period for a year preceding the murders! :what would have consolidated these suicidal feelings and led her to decide to take her life. I believe she was a deeply disturbed individual, suffering from histrionic personality disorder on top of suicidal depression who wanted to avenge her problems with Darin by punishing him in the worst way possible.

I believe she was furious and her self-esteem was at an all-time low when she went to sleep that night after her and Darin discussed separation. I believe she was suicidal, and had been for many months and intended to kill herself after taking the lives of the boys.

For whatever reason (fear, pain...) she couldn't follow through with the suicide, and panicked, making the decision within seconds to create the intruder scenario and stage the crime scene. I believed Darin helped her stage the crime scene.

There are many reasons why I have reached this conclusion, but I think the main one is the fact that this case is so damn complicated. I don't think the prosecution's argument of Darlie committing the murders in cold blood, with no mitigating circumstances and actively taking glee in the deaths of her sons adds up. I also don't believe Darlie's argument of an intruder holds up either - the fibres on the knife are damning.

That is what leads me to believe that the crime scene was staged, very very quickly and without much planning. I believe that if Darlie had planned to kill her sons and carried out the crime in a cold, calculated manner that the crime scene would have been staged MUCH more carefully. The footprint under the vacumn and the blood being washed away from the sink are indicators that Darlie just didn't think the logistics of staging the crime scene through very well. And that has what always stood out for me.

I also don't believe enough has EVER been made of her suicidal intentions in the weeks/months before the murders.

I have no opinion as of yet what her family may really know about what happened that night. I do know that I feel deeply sorry for Drake,Darlie Kee and her other daughter.

I admit from the beginning I have not read the transcripts - this is just the conclusion I have formed what I have read - various forums, pro and anti-Darlie websites, youtube documentaries, etc, etc. Thought I'd share

I'm sure many on here will agree; we never get sick of this case or new ideas .. This to me is such a fascinating case because of the opposing picture that Darlie represents; beautiful mother / baby killer .. It's so hard merging the 2.

After watching the YouTube documentary done by a WS member .. (i wish i could quote her name .. Ill come back with the link.. She pieced things together so well) That I too think I've come to realize that Darlie probably meant to take herself out that night and chickened out.. . Or, if it wasn't that, I feel it was also spur of the moment with no planning involved. I think as much planning as walking to the kitchen. I'm starting to feel as though it was her frustration with physically being strapped down with the Boys all day while facing severe mental issues .. and I am leaning away from it being financially motivated; although I'm sure a factor. Part of me feels postpartum psychosis may be to blame.

Case in point, this is why we will never be sick of this case... There are so many theories, I myself change my thoughts on this case often .. All excluding her innocence tho.. She killed her boys, no question. I just wish we knew why .. It drives me crazy!! I know I'm not alone .. Thanks for ur thoughts. Iove reading new theories!!


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Vhead]

Thanks Cami, I know you are something of an expert on this case so it means a lot to know that you agree!

The 911 call has always been a source of confusion for me.

On one hand, her hysteria and panic could lead you to believe that she is telling the truth - or, at least, hugely remorseful for the act she carried out earlier. At points, she really does seem tormented. For example, when she screams ''Karen!!'' (or could it be 'Darin!!'') - that pains me, it seems genuine...in some way. Similarly with the ''hurry, please hurry'', and asking about the ambulance etc. I don't know, when I first heard the call all I could think of was INNOCENCE. We know Darlie is a poor actress from her post-conviction interviews, but....some things in that call just make my heart reach out to her.

On the other hand, the ''somebody came in here intentionally and did it DARIN'', and the ''Darin...I promise'' are hugely damning. Also, I'm no expert - thankfully I've never had to make a 911 call myself - but I'm guessing the standard 911 call goes something along the lines off ''we need an ambulance - this is my address - HURRY!!!!'' I think a lot of unnecessary information was given on the call and it was unnecessarily long. Like I said, though, I am no expert.

The call still confuses me a lot.

I had to call 911 when my house was on fire. I didn't go into extenuating circumstances because I thought any extra talk would slow the process..My place was on fire and I needed help now!!!! Of course this couldn't even compare to a child Laying and gasping for breath after being stabbed where "get here now" couldn't be said fast enough

IMO
V


Sent from my iPhone

 

[cami]

I'm sure many on here will agree; we never get sick of this case or new ideas .. This to me is such a fascinating case because of the opposing picture that Darlie represents; beautiful mother / baby killer .. It's so hard merging the 2.

After watching the YouTube documentary done by a WS member .. (i wish i could quote her name .. Ill come back with the link.. She pieced things together so well) That I too think I've come to realize that Darlie probably meant to take herself out that night and chickened out.. . Or, if it wasn't that, I feel it was also spur of the moment with no planning involved. I think as much planning as walking to the kitchen. I'm starting to feel as though it was her frustration with physically being strapped down with the Boys all day while facing severe mental issues .. and I am leaning away from it being financially motivated; although I'm sure a factor. Part of me feels postpartum psychosis may be to blame.

Case in point, this is why we will never be sick of this case... There are so many theories, I myself change my thoughts on this case often .. All excluding her innocence tho.. She killed her boys, no question. I just wish we knew why .. It drives me crazy!! I know I'm not alone .. Thanks for ur thoughts. Iove reading new theories!!


Sent from my iPhone

I completely agree

 

[Tink]

This link:
http://etd.ohiolink.edu/view.cgi?acc_num=ucin1163534092

lets you download a study on 911 calls and things that can indicate guilt or innocence. It's very good. And there are several things that strongly suggest guilt in Darlie's 911 call, such as:

1. Innocent people usually immediately start with an urgent plea for help for the victims. Guilty people give a description of the incident.

2. Innocent people mention the victim first. Notice how Darlie says "they just stabbed me and my kids." Guilty people mention themselves first.

3. Innocent people are focused on getting help for the victims. Guilty people give extraneous information (like about how someone intentionally walked in and did this and about picking up the knife and how we might have gotten fingerprints...)

4. Innocent people refuse to accept the death of family members (even in cases when the person is obviously dead). Guilty people will say the victim is dead even when they can't be sure he is. Darlie says "my babies are dying, they're dead."

5. Guilty people have contradictions in what they say - such as Darlie sometimes speaking of one person, sometimes of more than one.

6. Guilty people use the word "just" in describing what happened as when Darlie says "just stabbed me and my kids." "Just" is a way of minimizing what happened. Innocent people say "He stabbed him!"

It's very interesting research and I think Darlie definitely fits the guilty profile.

Tink

 

[BritsKate]

Depending on which study you believe depression is prevalent in up to 70% of maternal filicides. There is also a well established and documented link between filicide and suicide with psychotic parents having a much higher proportion of past suicide attempts.

I have no problem believing Darlie was depressed or suicidal. I have no problem believing she murdered two bright and beautiful little boys. I do not believe for a moment though she was psychotic at the time of those murders. PPD perhaps but not PPP in my opinion.

Psychotic mothers behave so much differently to how Darlie reacted. Psychotic mothers do not collude or cover up their crimes as a general rule. In one study of 29 psychotic maternal filicides 23 mothers confessed to the crime compared to just 9 in 26 non-psychotic filicides. Dena Schlosser and Andrea Yates are prime examples of psychotic maternal filicides. JMO and FWIW

http://www.jaapl.org/content/31/4/459.full.pdf+html
http://www.jaapl.org/content/33/4/496.full.pdf+html

 

[jimben]

Munchausen by Proxy induce from her husband playing head games.

 

[cami]

I'm sure many on here will agree; we never get sick of this case or new ideas .. This to me is such a fascinating case because of the opposing picture that Darlie represents; beautiful mother / baby killer .. It's so hard merging the 2.

After watching the YouTube documentary done by a WS member .. (i wish i could quote her name .. Ill come back with the link.. She pieced things together so well) That I too think I've come to realize that Darlie probably meant to take herself out that night and chickened out.. . Or, if it wasn't that, I feel it was also spur of the moment with no planning involved. I think as much planning as walking to the kitchen. I'm starting to feel as though it was her frustration with physically being strapped down with the Boys all day while facing severe mental issues .. and I am leaning away from it being financially motivated; although I'm sure a factor. Part of me feels postpartum psychosis may be to blame.

Case in point, this is why we will never be sick of this case... There are so many theories, I myself change my thoughts on this case often .. All excluding her innocence tho.. She killed her boys, no question. I just wish we knew why .. It drives me crazy!! I know I'm not alone .. Thanks for ur thoughts. Iove reading new theories!!


Sent from my iPhone

It's Shonya Kay. She did an excellent job on those videos. She lays it all out for you to make up your own mind.

You know the more I've thought about this, I believe if Darlie were truly suicidal she would never have appealed her death sentence. She would have let them kill her.

 

[cami]

Munchausen by Proxy induce from her husband playing head games.

What head games was Darin playing?

 

[Madeleine74]

Intruders don't just walk up and murder 2 sleeping little boys for no reason. That alone would have to make everyone suspicious even before they start looking at Darlie's behaviors and the 911 call and the blood spatter evidence, etc, etc.

Just like Jeffrey MacDonald's case. His 2 little daughters stabbed umpteen times? That's rage and that's familial rage.

 

[cami]

Intruders don't just walk up and murder 2 sleeping little boys for no reason. That alone would have to make everyone suspicious even before they start looking at Darlie's behaviors and the 911 call and the blood spatter evidence, etc, etc.

Just like Jeffrey MacDonald's case. His 2 little daughters stabbed umpteen times? That's rage and that's familial rage.

I wonder when they are going to finally shut the door on MacDonald? Why has he been allowed to file appeal after appeal, most of them nonsense? His case is the most litigated case in American history. Now he wants touch dna tests done after the 2007 dna tests exonerated Helena Stockley and Greg Mitchell and confirmed he was the killer.