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UdbCrzy2 said:
I'm still waiting for the 'new evidence' that will exonerate the three convicted child murderers. What could that be? Why won't they say what that evidence is or have the Defense announce it? That's the part where I am confused. What could they be waiting for?
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There is none, if there was, the defense would not have struck a deal with the Prosecution.

If there truly was evidence to exonerate the three, then they would have never taken the plea.

it's all smoke & mirrors
 
Yes, obviously did they find and they're hoping to find other DNA evidence or trace evidence matched to someone else. (I don't think the DNA so far proves TH did it, but it is probably good enough for reasonable doubt of the WM3 in court.)
 
Smelly Squirrel said:
thanks for answering. The second one is silly - that in one night he was already fretting his wife didn't get over it. Nah. The former isn't as bad, but I do have difficulty with it, that he would take that big of risk to move them.

If you want to say TH killed them, why couldn't he have just as well done it in the woods where they were found?
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I was not saying that he was fretting in one night that she hadn't gotten over it but that he thought that she would fret and continue to search if the bodies weren't found quickly. TH wanted to get on with his life with Pam but without Stevie. Some people even believe that TH planned to kill Stevie to remove the obstacle that Stevie was rapidly becoming in TH's mind between himself and Pam.

He could have killed them in the woods, but the way it went down, IMO, it just so happened to involve a manhole because that's where he found the boys. I agree that it was a risk to move the bodies, but I don't think the risk was that great. He knew, since he had been searching himself, that the police weren't searching and that at about 3 am all the searchers had gone home to rest for a while before resuming their search at daybreak. So, IMO, he knew he had a window of opportunity and he took it.

It is also possible that he did kill them in the woods and then threw them down the manhole. However, my problem with this theory is one of control. How could he control three eight-year-old boys as he attacked them one at a time? This problem is one which has led many people to believe that at least two killers were involved. With the use of the manhole, the control problem is solved, IMO.

BTW, again let me state that I don't think he went there to kill the boys or even Stevie. He went there to discipline Stevie because of his previous disobedience or for some other reason. The other two boys were simply witnesses that had to be silenced, and the easiest way to silence them was to eliminate them.
 
Pensfan said:
Shortened for brevity-


As you stated earlier, Jessie wasn't one of Damien Echol's best friends. Therefore, Jessie didn't know that Damien Echols favorite hiding spot was the sewer just like a filthy poop-eating rat.
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I know this is OT but since I have two pet rats that I love very much I just need to point out that rats are not filthy.They groom themselves for hours.
They're really smart too and really cute
picture.php
 
Pensfan said:
Shortened for brevity-


As you stated earlier, Jessie wasn't one of Damien Echol's best friends. Therefore, Jessie didn't know that Damien Echols favorite hiding spot was the sewer just like a filthy poop-eating rat. Deanna, his old girlfriend knew this disgusting info. because Damien tried to get her to go down into the sewer with him.
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Rats are actually quite cute and they do groom themselves for hours.

So not all Rats are filthy poop eating creatures
 
claudicici said:
I know this is OT but since I have two pet rats that I love very much I just need to point out that rats are not filthy.They groom themselves for hours.
They're really smart too and really cute
picture.php
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You can't be talking about rats that inhabit sewers (Damien Echols's special hiding place). Have you ever seen one?

I had never seen a wild rat that lived in the sewer until the city Buffalo, NY tore up portions of the sewer to replace pipes. Giant rats fled the jackhammer noise and came above ground. They were almost the size of Basset Hounds. They were at least 25-30 pounds and too big for me to pick up the dead ones with a shovel. (Our German Shepherd killed several in the backyard where my children played.) These giant rats bit cats and dogs, ate all the grape vines and vegetable gardens, climbed trees, entered attics/basements, and caused a lot of fear. Giant wild rats from the sewer are carriers of Hanta virus, typhus, steptobacillus, salmonella, leptospirosis, and meningitis (diseases that can kill humans). You don't have to be bitten by one to catch some of these diseases. Exposure to their feces/urine or even a rat scratch can infect a human or a pet.
http://www.orlandorats.com/diseases.htm
 
Here's some things I have learned about mice and rats. It's kinda OT, but others have said things about them so I'll add what I know. One summer I worked in a factory that raised mice and rats that were to be used in laboratory experiments. I quickly learned the difference. A rat will climb its tail and bite you; a mouse will not. That can happen because the rat's tail is longer than its body, but the mouse's is not.

Field rats often get into homes (and sewers, I have no doubt) and are much bigger than field mice. The pet rats that people have are usually of the same type that were raised in the factory where I worked and are usually white in color. These mice and rats are much bigger than the field mice and rats that become pests. In fact, a laboratory mouse is about the same size as a field rat. A laboratory rat is much bigger.

Once, years ago, we got rats in our house because a nearby field was mowed. When I saw one, at first I thought it was a mouse because it was the size of the mice in the factory where I had worked. However, on closer inspection (not too close!) I could see that the tail was longer than the body so I knew it was a rat. Of course, these weren't pets and had to be exterminated because of the disease they could carry. Remember, the bubonic plague came from the fleas on the rats that bit people (not the rats, the fleas). "Food" for thought . . .
 
claudicici said:
The new evidence came out in 2007 in case someone missed it.
http://laughingsquid.com/dna-evidence-proves-innocence-of-west-memphis-three/
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Thanks for sharing in this thread, too -- cannot believe how repetitive WM3 threads have become -- I thank those of you posting pertinent information & not false / off topic garbage or just plain wacky carp.

I was checking CRs Theory to compare facts but got muddled in the mire . . . okay - Manhole covers!!! Aren't they heavy? Would the 3 boys be able to remove one? Going back to read about manholes (LOL)
 
Some of the manholes didn't have covers but had openings that were protected on the top by concrete, kind of like an open sewer. It would have a grate-like opening that was vertical, not on the ground. However, "grate" is misleading. It was more like a few vertical bars spaced so far apart that men could enter between them. I hope I'm making sense! Also, there was a hook found near the discovery ditch (maybe even in it) that could be used to lift a cover.
 
Compassionate Reader said:
Some of the manholes didn't have covers but had openings that were protected on the top by concrete, kind of like an open sewer. It would have a grate-like opening that was vertical, not on the ground. However, "grate" is misleading. It was more like a few vertical bars spaced so far apart that men could enter between them. I hope I'm making sense! Also, there was a hook found near the discovery ditch (maybe even in it) that could be used to lift a cover.
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I'm sorry, but that makes zero sense to me. I have never seen a manhole cover that wasn't a single solid heavy piece. I can't even imagine any city would be so negligent as to have grates over a manhole than children or even grown men could climb into without removing it.

Got a photo? Maybe that will help me see what you are talking about. Also, is there a pic of the hook anywhere or a description of it over at Callahan or jivepuppi? I would need to see that too or have a description otherwise it could be a fishing hook for all I know.
 
The bars in the upper left photo can be moved, I believe with the same sort of hook-like tool found at the discovery ditch. As you can see, the covers on some of the manholes were often left askew. BTW, these are actual photos of manholes in the area at the time. Some have been mysteriously closed and/or given a "facelift" since 1993. Go figure.
 
Compassionate Reader said:
I'll put this here, but I said much the same thing in another thread.

First, Deanna Holcomb is a former girlfriend of Damien's. She could be lying. And just because Damien liked to "hang out" in manholes (if this is true) doesn't prove that he committed the murders. As Cappuccino said, where is this tidbit of information in Jessie's stories?

It never ceases to amaze me that some people believe that some teens are telling the truth and others are lying. They accept as gospel truth the "stories" of a mentally challenged teen, a juvenile delinquent, a couple of tween girls who supposedly overheard a conversation and an estranged girlfriend with an obvious axe to grind, but discount as lies the testimony of those teens who actually interacted with one or more of the WMFree on May 5, 1993.

Second, the little boys were all "into" Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles at the time of the murders. All of the parents knew this, as most parents know of their child's likes and dislikes. TH almost let it slip at one point, starting to mention TMNT specifically but backtracking at the last minute. TH also mentioned the fact that Ryan, Chris' brother, suggested searching in "something that covers a whole or something," at the same time indicating with his hands the approximate size of the opening of a manhole. These statements are in his Pasdar depositions, IIRC.

IMO, the three little boys would not follow Damien and his friends down into a manhole as they didn't know them and, if they had seen them around town, they would probably have been afraid of Damien because he looked different. They are much more likely to respond to one of their fathers. They could have either allowed him into the manhole (which is not what I believe happened) or (IMO the more likely scenario) exited the manhole when he appeared at the opening and ordered them out.

So, again, IMO, TH went to the manhole (probably around 7 pm) and either went down into it or called them to come up. If he went down, he was attempting to discipline Stevie and it got out of hand. He had two witnesses who saw it happen and who were trapped with him at the time in the manhole. So, he silences them as well. If TH simply called down and ordered the boys up, then Stevie, the first to emerge, was probably backhanded and knocked unconscious, but TH may have believed that he killed Stevie at that time. The other boys, upon emerging, received similar blows to silence them. IMO, either way it happened, it began with Stevie being disciplined and the others being murdered to eliminate witnesses.
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I don't think anyone is taking what Deanna said as 'gospel.' She had no reason to make that up though, Paid's manhole theory wasn't out then, was it? Do you think she was psychic? She just knew that, years down the road, Damien's supporters would make up a theory about the crimes being committed (by someone else) in a manhole, and someone would just happen to remember that she had said that Damien was a known manhole frequenter, and said it in hopes that that would turn suspicion back to him? That is ridiculous.

I don't think for a second that these children were murdered in a manhole. I do not believe that they hung out in manholes just because they liked the ninja turtles. I really like Batman but I don't hang out in caves. It is a fact that Damien is the only person involved in the case who has been specifically said to hang out in manholes. That is kind of funny considering the big manhole fairy tale. That was the point in mentioning it. There is no evidence linking the crimes to a manhole.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will buy into a story, with zero evidence to indicate that any part of it is true.
 
I have to agree with your last comment. For example, there is zero evidence that this crime was ever committed as part of a ritual, Satanic or otherwise, and yet there are still people out there who believe it was.
 
Cappuccino said:
I have to agree with your last comment. For example, there is zero evidence that this crime was ever committed as part of a ritual, Satanic or otherwise, and yet there are still people out there who believe it was.
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I don't know anyone who believes the boys were murdered in an organized ritual.
 
I never said organized. There are plenty of people who still buy the Satanic stuff, and yet there's no evidence this was ever motivated by Satanism at all.
 
Roxye said:
Yet that rhetoric was part of what convicted them....
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I don't think the state said the murders were part of a Satanic ritual. That the murderers were into Satanism, or their own idea of Satanism, yes, but that the murders were part of a ritual, no. Regardless, IMO, and the opinions of everyone I have ever discussed it with, the murders were not part of a ritual. The confessions do not describe what I would call a ritual.
 
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