I'd like to address the last few posts.
Actually this has nothing to do with black clothes, Metallica, and pure Satanism, but has everything to do with mental disorders, threats of violence, and Satanic dabbling. Just why do you think Echols is so enamored of Marilyn Manson?
Again, as was proven with the Judas Priest trials way back when, a person's likes or dislikes in music cannot cause that person to become a murderer. Just because someone has mental health issues doesn't make that person a murderer. If Damien were as mentally ill as non supporters like to claim, he would not have been able to cope with prison as well as he has. In his book, Almost Home, he discusses the problems that he had when he was taken off of antidepressants cold turkey, but he stated that he's fine now. I know non supporters don't want to accept that fact, but it's true.
Manson is an ordained high priest in LeVey's Church of Satan. Damien Echols hasn't changed one iota. He's the same mentally deranged person he was in 1993. Oh he's sure gotten a heck of a lot smarter about playing his cards right and Jason too, but they are right where they belong along with Jessie. Oh, and Jessie's sister is in prison for murder as well.
Damien never professed to be a Satanist. Sure he dabbled. So did my husband. Neither of those men are murderers. Technically, Damien never even joined a Wiccan coven, but, when he was a teen, he did look into it. Many of my friends did that, too, when they were teens. None of my friends or Damien is a murderer because of an interest in Wicca or any other religion. The reason Damien has appeared to get "a heck of a lot smarter about playing his cards right and Jason too" is because they are no longer teens. Teens, as I know from teaching them for 25 years, often say foolish things. Then they grow up and realize that, contrary to the old adage, words can harm. Whatever Jessie's sister did does not, and never did, control what Jessie did. Jessie did not commit murder, even if his sister may have.
Am I worried? Not one iota. I expect Judge Laser will uphold the sentences, and the US Supreme Court will refuse to look at the case, especially since an evidentiary hearing will have been held by that point.
I expect Judge Laser will either order a new trial or just outright free the WM3 for lack of credible evidence, which is what happened in the Tim Masters case. Before we even get to the Supreme Court, there are the lower-level Federal courts to address. At the Federal level, the jury misconduct issue can be reintroduced. But I don't think this case will go that far. I think it will be resolved with the evidentiary hearing with either an order for a new trial (which the State will refuse to pursue) or the outright freeing of the wrongfully-incarcerated men.
Some people just can't see the forest for the trees.
Sure, there are some innocents on death row, but Damien Echols isn't one of them.
JMO.
Damien Echols is definitely one of the innocents on Death Row, and I believe that the upcoming hearing will go far to prove that point.
I heard that Damien is on his very last appeal. This has gone on for FAR too long. I just hope that Damien turns to God before he goes.
No, as I stated earlier, Damien is not on his last appeal. This is his last appeal at the State level. He still has all of his Federal appeals to go, but IMO, they won't be necessary because he will be exonerated (unless the State chickens out) at the State level. I do agree that this has gone on for FAR too long. No innocent person should spend over half of his life in prison.
The WM3 have already been found guilty so now they will have to prove their innocence. I can't even see them either:
A. Getting a new trial or B. getting released from prison unless there is some major earth shattering evidence that proofs they did not commit this crime.
It's true that at the evidentiary hearing the burden of proof is on the defense, and I believe that they will more than meet that burden and prove that the young men in prison are innocent. After the hearing, however, at a new trial, the burden would shift back to the State. That's the main reason, IMO, that the State is fighting so hard to prevent further testing. The State knows that, without the Satanic panic, they could never convict these young men again.
Why do you think Senator (formerly Judge) Burnett has introduced a bill in the State Senate that would allow someone to be convicted on a confession alone without any evidence? That "confession" (at least in this case) will be shredded at the hearing, and the State will be left with noting in their evidence quiver with which to proceed to trial, which is why the State will refuse to retry the case, and the WM3 will go free.
Another thing that I believe the defense will do at the hearing is provide a viable alternative suspect for the State. Whether or not the State prosecutes that suspect depends on how much pressure is put on them by the citizens. I know that I will have to wait until December to see this happen, and I'm trying to be patient. It's getting hard, though!
Why confess if you DID NOT commit a murder? There is a very big reason why all of their appeals, every single one of them have been denied for the last 18 years.
There are a veritable plethora of cases I could cite where an innocent person has confessed to a crime for any number of reasons. The most recent one that I know of is the Riley Fox murder where her father falsely confessed. When the real murderer was found, Mr. Fox was awarded a hefty settlement for his false imprisonment. Unfortunately, Arkansas doesn't convict innocent people (according to the AG), so there will not be such relief in this case.
As to the appeals, did you actually expect Burnett to reverse himself? At the ASSC, most of the time, that Court supports the verdicts of the lower courts. It's the good ol' boy system, don't cha know? The only time an evidentiary hearing is ordered is when the mountain of evidence against the original verdict is so large that nothing else can be done. Remember also, this decision was unanimous.
And I don't think it's to save face for the WM Police Department.
If they have been stuck in prison for the last 18 years than what in the world makes D, J & J think that they will be getting out anytime soon.
esp. if they claim to be so innocent. Obviously, they ain't so innocent.
I also think this is the states way of saying " This is your last chance boys".
The State's insistence on the guilt of the WM3 is not so much to save face for the WMPD, that face has had egg on it for quite some time, it's to save the careers that have been built on the back of this case. D, J, & J think they should get out because they're not guilty. Period. The State is not sending any message (except "Please don't test anything"); the message was from the Arkansas State Supreme Court, the judicial arm of the government. And their message was, "Something's not quite right here. Let's look at this again and get it right, please."
As dearly as supporters would like to see this as an evidentiary hearing to introduce Terry Hobbs culpability once again. That's not going to happen. Terry Hobbs is not a suspect, and never was. This case is about Echols, Baldwin, and Misskelly, not Hobbs. The WM3 are the focus, and whether the defense can present enough evidence for the court to decide a new trial is in order.
I wonder what new evidence the state may present to preclude that from happening? Remains to be seen.
Yes, as I stated before, the burden of proof is on the defense at the hearing. However, lawyers tell me that, in addition to proving innocence, usually a viable alternative suspect is provided as additional proof of "reasonable doubt" in a murder case.
Any new evidence the State plans to provide should have been outlined in their brief, as the defense did. I didn't really see any new evidence, but December will eventually arrive. Then, we'll all have the answers we seek.
And before some supporter comes on here to tell me Damien is a Buddhist, my answer is Damien is still dabbling, mixing and matching just as he was in 1993. I also do know that Manson considers himself only an honorary high-priest, but I doubt that's how Damien sees it. Combine Manson, Manson's music, and satanism, and for Damien that's a winning combination. Ugh.
Many intelligent people cannot be happy with one religion. I know that's the case with my husband. He has been a student of religions for many years and has joined and/or attended many churches. Apparently, Damien is the same way. I just don't see how that makes Damien a murderer. His tastes in religion or music have absolutely no bearing on whether or not he is a murderer.
And here's a thought I just had. I'm really not sure Damien could even handle it if he was released into society. I think it would send him off the deep end again, given his mental status reports after his conviction.
I believe that, with the help of his wife, Damien will be just fine. Have you seen the documentary After Innocence? It follows several prisoners who were exonerated by DNA to show what life is like for them on the outside. There are struggles, true, but with a support system in place, they seem to be doing fine. They just need a forum where they can tell their story so they can exorcise those demons.
For all his complaining prison has been somewhat curative for him so long as he remains within that structured environment.
Do you seriously believe that mental illness (which I don't believe applies to Damien, but you seem to) is best treated by imprisonment? That's truly taking things back at least a few decades. IMO, no innocent person, regardless of whatever mental health issues they might have, is helped by being falsely imprisoned, especially on Death Row.
I would not be opposed to his conviction being commuted to LWOP, mainly because I do believe he was off his rocker entirely when he and the other two committed the murders. I do not believe he was the leader. Jason is the only one with all his faculties in tact.
So, you believe Jason was the leader? And you base that on what? His shy retiring nature that persists to this day? His teachers' reports of him being shy but a good boy? If Jason was the ringleader, why wasn't he the focus of the police investigation? Most followers of this case seem to see Jason as the one of the three who is the least likely of them to have committed these murders. He was still in school and doing fine. The only evidence against him was Carson's statement (which is refuted by ADC employees who where there at the time) and Jessie's statement (which any intelligent person can see is a coerced, false confession). None of the three men in prison are guilty of these murders, but Jason is certainly the least likely of the three.
I think Damien is guilty of some malingering, but how much, I really can't say. I know he lied when he was on Larry King the first time. Claimed it was LE's idea to send him to a mental hospital. That interview has been pulled from YouTube now. Damien made a much earlier statement he got himself into the mental hospital because he figured it would be easier than jail. So then he lied to Larry King about how he wound up in the mental hospital which is why I say there's some malingering in his background.
Jerry Driver and Damien's mother were responsible for his first stay in a mental hospital. Jerry Driver, being at the time a juvenile officer, was part of LE. So, Damien's statement was correct. He was not malingering. There's a very thorough account of this situation in Almost Home if you're truly interested in what happened and why and not in the media hype that has produced some pretty outlandish stories.
Jason confessed to Michael Carson when they were together in juvie, and testified to that in court. Carson was given a lie detector test, and passed, and had nothing to gain because he had already been released from detention when he came forward. Carson had a record, and supporters try to say that he had something to gain from testifying, but that is incorrect.
As I stated earlier, the ADC employees that were guarding the boys at the time said that this conversation never happened. Carson and Jason were only in the same facility for about a week, and other detainees said that Jason was always very closed mouthed and wouldn't open up to anyone that quickly. Their statement, coupled with what the employees said, certainly casts serious doubts on Carson's statements. Personally, I think he might have been after the reward. (I won't mention the Johnny Preston letter here because Preston is just another convict that Carson supposedly met later and admitted that he made up the conversation with Jason. But, two cons talking is not too much proof of anything except that people talk.)
Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to address all of the points raised.
