Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #5

[SeriouslySearching]

They were certainly quick on response about the initials in the ring! Great! So it does seem the F would be the initial of a last name.

While the vic might look a lot like Dr. Forsey...it would be a good idea for us to check into things a bit further, imo. The idea someone had of combing the high school reunion sites was a good one. (I still think the watch was a graduation gift.)

There are other avenues we can pursue in finding out his or her identities. Keep thinking outside the box!

 

[MaryLiz]

I think contacting Verna is a fantastic idea! I wouldn't waste any time... what do you have to lose? If you want help drafting a letter, PM me, I'd be glad to assist.

rmf - Thanks for the offer. I will PM you about it...I think as SeriouslySearching said below we should do a bit more checking into this. I wanted to contact someone as soon as I saw the side by side photos of Dr. Forsey and John Doe but the more I thought about it, the more something just kept telling me to hold off a bit. If I decide to draft a letter to Verna Moore or anyone else in Sumter County LE, I will definitely PM you for help!

 

[MaryLiz]

They were certainly quick on response about the initials in the ring! Great! So it does seem the F would be the initial of a last name.

While the vic might look a lot like Dr. Forsey...it would be a good idea for us to check into things a bit further, imo. The idea someone had of combing the high school reunion sites was a good one. (I still think the watch was a graduation gift.)

There are other avenues we can pursue in finding out his or her identities. Keep thinking outside the box!

I agree about checking into things further. The idea of high school reunion sites is a good one. I think also checking into Dr. Forsey a bit further is a good idea too. After posting the info from the directory of the Royal College of Medicine, I think rmf said Dr. F. was all over the Internet so I might search around more for him this weekend.

 

[froggierintexas]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/cotta_jan.html

If this was already listed, sorry didn't see it.

I thought this could be a possible match.

If I let my imagination run wild I can picture this young lady waiting in the stables for her love. The father of her child. Getting into the car to start life anew. But then I stop because I really would like to think she and the young man drove into the sunset and lived their wonderfully long and happy life with their child and are still somewhere living that happy life but I know that probably isn't the case.
Anway...
I probably watch to much tv.

 

[phenolred]

I thinking maybe these two aren't on a missing persons website but they could be. Since they were both more than likely over 18, their families thoght they moved away on their own and just never contacted them again. So thats why I thought about doing the classmates.com or myspace thing. They had to have friends that have always wondered what ever happend to so and so????

 

[phenolred]

I thought of a possible theory last night. I think it has been said on here before that the highway near where they were found was a drug running route. Maybe they went to Florida to pick up drugs maybe cocaine, wasnt that popular to back in the 70's (think studio 54) On their way back they stopped in SC stayed at the KOA and maybe shared some of the drug with a local and this local saw the large amount of the drug and deceided to kill them for the drugs and their car. I am also sure that the police know what kind of car left the crime scene but they just haven't released that info. I also wonder what kind of car the KOA guy saw them in. I wonder if someone could look up more old newspaper articles and find out the name of the KOA guy AND the truck driver that found them. Then maybe somebody here could ask them questions directly as to what they remember.

 

[Gina_M]

I was wondering, too, if there was any more info about the guy at the KOA, if he saw their car, etc. I searched the newspaper archives the other day...everything I found is posted back on page 8. Maybe someone else will have better luck

 

[Gina_M]

The High Point Enterprise
High Point, NC
September 19, 1976

The young man had exceptional dental work. Sumter dentists who examined his body said he was in the process of having a complete mouth restoration, with several thousands of dollars worth of root canal caps, tooth caps and bridge work. They say the job was about half-finished.

...

a mechanic in Nebraska said he thought the man was someone who had had work done on a vehicle with either Washington or Oregon plates. But that lead has so far failed to produce any other information.

I think the mechanic in Nebraska story is interesting. The truck stop the matchbook came from had 3 locations, and one of them was Nebraska. Washington or Oregon plates would fit with the idea that his dad lived in Canada. Maybe the son moved out and moved down to Washington or Oregon. Then he decided to take a cross-country trip.

 

[superunknown]

I think the mechanic in Nebraska story is interesting. The truck stop the matchbook came from had 3 locations, and one of them was Nebraska. Washington or Oregon plates would fit with the idea that his dad lived in Canada. Maybe the son moved out and moved down to Washington or Oregon. Then he decided to take a cross-country trip.

I have gone back and forth in my mind about whether the truck stop matches are significant. Jacques Doe and his companion had just stayed in a campground and may have randomly picked up the matches there to start a fire at their campsite. I do think that they must have had a car though and whoever did this, probably took their car.

 

[superunknown]

I thought of a possible theory last night. I think it has been said on here before that the highway near where they were found was a drug running route. Maybe they went to Florida to pick up drugs maybe cocaine, wasnt that popular to back in the 70's

I have thought the same things.

I have this theory: it is possible they were both of Cuban decent. There were Cubans pouring into Florida in the early 70s, many of them on rafts as refugees. It is possible these people were at one time Cuban refugees and had no family in the U.S. It also makes sense on another level: one thing I don't understand is WHY a prominent doctor's son would need a total overhaul on his teeth. One would assume he'd received decent dental care all along.

It *could* make sense that this guy was Cuban, had come to the USA and had NOT had good dental care in Cuba. He could have gotten involved in running coke up and down the I-95 corridor, and was making enough money to have his teeth fixed. In the third world, good teeth and decent dental work are a sign of wealth. It could be that he was trading coke with a dentist for the work. Back in those days it is not beyond the realm of possiblity that a young swingin' Dentist would trade work in this way. It would also explain why no one came forward to identify the dentals AND would explain why no family came forward. Even if the families WERE in Miami, they might be too afraid to claim the bodies if it was a drug-related hit.

This does not explain, however, why the male had an elaborate story about Canada for the KOA campground worker. Or maybe it does...

The DNA results will be very telling. If the results yield a Hispanic nationality for these two, then I think the chances of identifying them will be very slim.

Just thinkin'

 

[Teresa Larson]

The matches could have also came from a truck stop in Grants New Mexico. That could also explain the jewelry Maybe they were from that area. I wonder if any trucking companies lost a truck in the area around that time. Truck drivers walk away from their trucks all of the time. The company may have thought that's what happened. It would be next to impossible to find that out from that long ago. My deceased husband was a truck driver I used to go with him a lot over the road. Truckers are good people. They look out for each other especially back then. I don't think it's right to stero type because there are bad and good people in every profession Another thought IF the deceased guy was a trucker he would have had a CDL. Maybe they robbed him for what he had loaded on his truck. I have also even considered that maybe it was a mob hit since they were killed the way they were. There are lots of possibilites here.

 

[Marie]

Does anyone have an engraved ring? How long does it take for the engravings to fade or rub off?

 

[MaryLiz]

I have thought the same things.

I have this theory: it is possible they were both of Cuban decent. There were Cubans pouring into Florida in the early 70s, many of them on rafts as refugees. It is possible these people were at one time Cuban refugees and had no family in the U.S. It also makes sense on another level: one thing I don't understand is WHY a prominent doctor's son would need a total overhaul on his teeth. One would assume he'd received decent dental care all along.

It *could* make sense that this guy was Cuban, had come to the USA and had NOT had good dental care in Cuba. He could have gotten involved in running coke up and down the I-95 corridor, and was making enough money to have his teeth fixed. In the third world, good teeth and decent dental work are a sign of wealth. It could be that he was trading coke with a dentist for the work. Back in those days it is not beyond the realm of possiblity that a young swingin' Dentist would trade work in this way. It would also explain why no one came forward to identify the dentals AND would explain why no family came forward. Even if the families WERE in Miami, they might be too afraid to claim the bodies if it was a drug-related hit.

This does not explain, however, why the male had an elaborate story about Canada for the KOA campground worker. Or maybe it does...

The DNA results will be very telling. If the results yield a Hispanic nationality for these two, then I think the chances of identifying them will be very slim.

Just thinkin'

That is a very good theory that they (or at least he) may be of Cuban descent. I'm hoping not because as you said, it would next to impossible to identify them. I'm just praying they get the DNA results back soon! But if drugs were involved, and I suspect they were, the chance of him being from Cuba or even Central America is very strong.

 

[MaryLiz]

The matches could have also came from a truck stop in Grants New Mexico. That could also explain the jewelry Maybe they were from that area. I wonder if any trucking companies lost a truck in the area around that time. Truck drivers walk away from their trucks all of the time. The company may have thought that's what happened. It would be next to impossible to find that out from that long ago. My deceased husband was a truck driver I used to go with him a lot over the road. Truckers are good people. They look out for each other especially back then. I don't think it's right to stero type because there are bad and good people in every profession Another thought IF the deceased guy was a trucker he would have had a CDL. Maybe they robbed him for what he had loaded on his truck. I have also even considered that maybe it was a mob hit since they were killed the way they were. There are lots of possibilites here.

I'm not sure of the significance of the matches, but I thought the exact same thing, that they very possibly could have gotten the matches at a Grant's Truck Stop in New Mexico simply because of Jane Doe's rings. The rings look very much like they could have come from that area. That type of jewlery with turquoise and red stones that looked Native American or even Mexican in design was extremely popular in the 70s. I had 2 or 3 turquoise rings myself back then. They quite possibly could have been purchased in New Mexico. They sure don't look very old, like she hadn't had them long at all.

And some kind of mob hit isn't out of the realm of possibility either because they were both shot in the exact same places on their body, at close range in the back, chest and throat.

 

[Richard]

Does anyone have an engraved ring? How long does it take for the engravings to fade or rub off?

I have been wearing a ring with engraving inside for 29 years. It is still as clear and sharp as when the ring was new.

 

[Marie]

I have been wearing a ring with engraving inside for 29 years. It is still as clear and sharp as when the ring was new.

Thanks very much Richard. Makes me wonder why his was so faded.

 

[Marie]

Today I decided to research John's ring. I found some very interesting information. I wish his stone would speak to us!!


Linde star sapphire ("Linde stars") are synthetic star sapphires that were first made by the Linde Air Products Company in 1947. The Linde company later became a division of Union Carbide. The Linde company went out of business in the late 70's.

Linde Stars (Artificial Star Sapphires) -Stone is created in a lab, along with the star and color. Linde stars were manufactured en masse by the Linde division of Union Carbide since about the early 1950’s.

Star Sapphire Legends and Lore:

Few if any gemstones have the mystery, the mystique, the legend and history of star sapphire and star ruby. Treasured since the dawn of man, they are a stone that's hard to compare.

This stone is know as the Destiny Stone or the Stone of Destiny. 3-crossed lines represent 'faith, hope, and destiny.' Many people believe the star to be a good luck piece.

The ancients regarded star sapphires as a very powerful talisman, a guiding star for travelers and seekers of all kinds. They were so powerful, they were said to continue to protect the wearer even after being passed on to someone else.

People have thought that they had demons or angels of light living in them. And because they turned dark at night, they were thought to go to sleep, just like people.

People have worn them for protection from evil spirits or attackers, they carried them in medicine and healing pouches, they are powerful spirits in the shamanistic world.

People use them for saying and seeing the future or for objects of meditation. They are said to speak for, or are the voices of the mineral world spirits.

The stars in all stones are believed to increase the gemstones magical powers, because it's the all seeing eye of the spirit contained in the stone.

They speak only when in the light and their voice is one of movement and shadow light shades. They are the symbol of the heavens.

 

[Marie]

The Bulova Accutron was first sold to the public in November of 1960.

During the Accutron’s heyday from 1960 to about 1970, only about two million units were sold.

The two (of six total) model considered most collectible are the model 214 and 218.

The 214, which came out first, has the set mechanism in the back of the watch. It is a small semi-circular lever that is lifted with a fingernail.

The 218 is distinguished by a conventional crown along the side of the watch, located at the 4 o’clock position.

Bulova introduced the 218 in 1965 and gradually phased out the 214 for several reasons.

Various models of the 218 were produced until 1977.

Bulova provided a unique dating system on their cases beginning in 1949 which allows accurate dating of any Accutron. The codes were used as follows:

A9 = 1949 (this was the first dating done)
L0-L9 - 1950's. L2 = 1952, etc.
M0-M9 - 1960's. M6 = 1966, etc.
N0-N9 - 1970's. N3 = 1973, etc.

The date code can be found at the bottom of the case back. It will be a two digit alpha/numeric code, not to be confused with the longer alpha/numeric case reference above it.

Serial numbers that begin with a letter were made in the USA.
The serial number contains no other useful information about the watch. Inside of the back cover there is a 4 digit case number printed or stamped. That number is the key to all information about the model.

 

[phenolred]

I had just went back and re-read some of the information, and I see that the Jane Doe was wearing Stride Rite shoes and Levi cut off shorts. This leads me to beleive she was american. Arent stride rite shoes kids shoes??

Wonder what brand his shoes were?

Good work on the ring info and watch info, I know I read the police followed up on the serial number on the watch I wonder if they found out it was not made in the US

 

[phenolred]

Ok I found this about her shoes.....Seems they didnt start selling them internationally until 1991....Hmmm

During the 1970s, faced with stalled profits due to skyrocketing leather prices and competition from low-priced imports, the company decided to explore new territory, entering the market for the outdoorsy, sporty shoes gaining popularity among young people and children.

in 1991, Stride Rite founded Stride Rite International as a vehicle for marketing its products in foreign countries. The division marketed Stride Rite shoe lines in Europe, Asia, and Latin America

Does anyone remember Stride Rite stores from the 70's were they expensive shoes back then?