AmandaBrown23
Im just living among all the madness
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Just curious I havent read the whole discussion, is there any chance the Zodiac did this?
Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #5
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It does not sound like the killings linked to Zodiac. Also, it is well out of his general operating area - of San Francisco Bay, California.
Zodiac wrote to the newspapers and was quick to claim credit for killings that he did (or wanted to claim). I do not believe that he ever made any such claims in this case.
Some of Zodiac's killings involved him shooting his victims, and there were bullets recovered which could have tied him to other murders, but I do not believe that any others were linked through recovered bullets.
Meyahna
Member
I don't know if you've already seen this article, it's pretty interesting.
Dead end?
By Brian Ray
Staff Writer
SUMTER ' It will be 28 years Monday since a young man and woman were found shot to death beside a dirt road in Sumter County.
The couple lie side by side now in plain graves at a country church in Oswego.
Their headstones read simply, 'Female Unknown' and 'Male Unknown.'
No parents have come to pay their respects. No killer has been convicted ' though authorities once had a prime suspect. Their murder remains a mystery that piques minds and touches hearts.
'They were somebody's kids,' says Patricia Riddle of Oswego. 'You just don't want to believe their parents don't care.'
Like others in the community, Riddle is drawn to the graves when she comes into the churchyard at Bethel United Methodist Church. The graves are well kept, and visitors ' she is not sure who or when ' sometimes bring flowers.
The two young people were buried Aug. 14, 1977, but their story begins a year earlier.
The crime
On Aug. 9, 1976, a man living in the sticks between Sumter and Florence heard a car scuttling down a narrow frontage road connecting Interstate 95 to S.C. 341. Someone climbed out. Gunshots echoed in the early morning, then the car raced back onto the highway.
As the sun rose, a truck driver pulled off to rest and found the bodies.
They were riddled with bullet holes, the girl's green eyes still wide with shock, her mouth open as if giving a final cry for help. She was in her late teens; her companion was in his mid-20s.
Sumter County Sheriff I. Byrd Parnell and his deputies arrived minutes later. Crouching over the corpses, they noticed a pair of tire tracks. There was nothing else.
The investigation
After making a plaster cast of the tire tracks and scouring for evidence, Parnell shipped the bodies to the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston for an autopsy, which turned up little more than the obvious.
As weeks passed, the sheriff made phone calls and wrote letters to law enforcement agencies from Florida to New Mexico in an effort to identify the bodies. Nothing turned up.
A forensic dentist in Spartanburg charted the young man's mouth and the American Dental Association published his findings, hoping a dentist somewhere would recognize the work. The dead man had undergone extensive dental work, including fillings, root canals and crowns. No dentist ever came forward.
A funeral home displayed the bodies for a year in airtight, see-through caskets.
Relatives of missing persons traveled from as far away as New Jersey, but all left with unanswered prayers.
After a year, the bodies had decayed and hardly seemed human any longer. So the young man and woman were laid to rest at the Methodist Church in Oswego.
More than 100 people attended the ceremony.
Sole suspect
About four months after the murders, police in the Darlington County town of Latta arrested Lonnie George Henry for drunk driving. Under the seat of his car they found a .38-caliber Smith & Wesson with the serial number filed off.
Police sent the gun to the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division's forensic lab for tests and later concluded that Henry's revolver had killed the mystery couple. Bullets taken from the bodies matched with the weapon.
When officers asked Henry point blank if he was the killer, his polygraph said he was telling the truth. No, he hadn't pulled the trigger. But several other lie detector tests implied he was lying about something, at least, maybe covering up for somebody. Investigators wondered if someone had stolen his gun and whether a relative or friend of Henry's had killed the couple in Sumter.
But case files say Henry did lie about how he'd obtained the gun, first telling officers that he'd bought it from a truck driver. Days after the purchase, Henry told investigators, he discovered the serial number had been filed off. By then, it was too late to return the item for a refund.
SLED recovered the serial number and investigators tracked the gun from its manufacturer to Henry's brother, who said he gave it to Henry as a Christmas present four or five years earlier.
The gun had been bought, stolen and resold several times before falling into the hands of Henry's brother. But he said the serial number was still there on Christmas Eve.
When confronted with the new information, Henry confessed to filing the serial numbers off himself.
It remains unclear why Henry lied if he was innocent. And it also remains unclear if he really was. Case files say Henry was a recovering alcoholic and had also gotten in trouble with the law for a slew of minor offenses.
At the time, his son had recently drowned in the Pee Dee River. He'd also accidentally killed one of his co-workers, by backing a dump truck over him.
Investigative psychologists even wondered if he'd killed the Sumter couple and simply couldn't remember doing it.
Dead end?
By Brian Ray
Staff Writer
Photo by Jim Shine
SUMTER ' It will be 28 years Monday since a young man and woman were found shot to death beside a dirt road in Sumter County.
The couple lie side by side now in plain graves at a country church in Oswego.
Their headstones read simply, 'Female Unknown' and 'Male Unknown.'
No parents have come to pay their respects. No killer has been convicted ' though authorities once had a prime suspect. Their murder remains a mystery that piques minds and touches hearts.
'They were somebody's kids,' says Patricia Riddle of Oswego. 'You just don't want to believe their parents don't care.'
Like others in the community, Riddle is drawn to the graves when she comes into the churchyard at Bethel United Methodist Church. The graves are well kept, and visitors ' she is not sure who or when ' sometimes bring flowers.
The two young people were buried Aug. 14, 1977, but their story begins a year earlier.
The crime
On Aug. 9, 1976, a man living in the sticks between Sumter and Florence heard a car scuttling down a narrow frontage road connecting Interstate 95 to S.C. 341. Someone climbed out. Gunshots echoed in the early morning, then the car raced back onto the highway.
As the sun rose, a truck driver pulled off to rest and found the bodies.
They were riddled with bullet holes, the girl's green eyes still wide with shock, her mouth open as if giving a final cry for help. She was in her late teens; her companion was in his mid-20s.
Sumter County Sheriff I. Byrd Parnell and his deputies arrived minutes later. Crouching over the corpses, they noticed a pair of tire tracks. There was nothing else.
The investigation
After making a plaster cast of the tire tracks and scouring for evidence, Parnell shipped the bodies to the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston for an autopsy, which turned up little more than the obvious.
As weeks passed, the sheriff made phone calls and wrote letters to law enforcement agencies from Florida to New Mexico in an effort to identify the bodies. Nothing turned up.
A forensic dentist in Spartanburg charted the young man's mouth and the American Dental Association published his findings, hoping a dentist somewhere would recognize the work. The dead man had undergone extensive dental work, including fillings, root canals and crowns. No dentist ever came forward.
A funeral home displayed the bodies for a year in airtight, see-through caskets.
Relatives of missing persons traveled from as far away as New Jersey, but all left with unanswered prayers.
After a year, the bodies had decayed and hardly seemed human any longer. So the young man and woman were laid to rest at the Methodist Church in Oswego.
More than 100 people attended the ceremony.
Sole suspect
About four months after the murders, police in the Darlington County town of Latta arrested Lonnie George Henry for drunk driving. Under the seat of his car they found a .38-caliber Smith & Wesson with the serial number filed off.
Police sent the gun to the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division's forensic lab for tests and later concluded that Henry's revolver had killed the mystery couple. Bullets taken from the bodies matched with the weapon.
When officers asked Henry point blank if he was the killer, his polygraph said he was telling the truth. No, he hadn't pulled the trigger. But several other lie detector tests implied he was lying about something, at least, maybe covering up for somebody. Investigators wondered if someone had stolen his gun and whether a relative or friend of Henry's had killed the couple in Sumter.
But case files say Henry did lie about how he'd obtained the gun, first telling officers that he'd bought it from a truck driver. Days after the purchase, Henry told investigators, he discovered the serial number had been filed off. By then, it was too late to return the item for a refund.
SLED recovered the serial number and investigators tracked the gun from its manufacturer to Henry's brother, who said he gave it to Henry as a Christmas present four or five years earlier.
The gun had been bought, stolen and resold several times before falling into the hands of Henry's brother. But he said the serial number was still there on Christmas Eve.
When confronted with the new information, Henry confessed to filing the serial numbers off himself.
It remains unclear why Henry lied if he was innocent. And it also remains unclear if he really was. Case files say Henry was a recovering alcoholic and had also gotten in trouble with the law for a slew of minor offenses.
At the time, his son had recently drowned in the Pee Dee River. He'd also accidentally killed one of his co-workers, by backing a dump truck over him.
Investigative psychologists even wondered if he'd killed the Sumter couple and simply couldn't remember doing it.
Meyahna
Member
But despite his incriminating profile, Henry had an alibi. 'I can prove where I was at on the dates that you said this happened,' Henry told investigators. He said he was at a hospital in Monroe, N.C., where his wife was staying. 'I suppose you will take my word.'
'Mr. Henry,' replied one of the officers, according to the files. 'Right now I don't believe I would take your word for anything.'
In an effort to corroborate his alibi, cops timed the drive from the hospital to the crime scene and concluded there was no way Henry could have raced back in time to see his wife. Even with knowledge of his mental health and lying twice about the gun, they set him free.
Now dead, Henry will never have the chance to erase the suspicion or to confess.
Passing through
Evidence says the young couple weren't from South Carolina.
'If they were from around here we would have found them by now,' says Sumter County Coroner Verna Moore. In 1976, she was deputy coroner and also worked for the local paper, The Sumter Daily Item.
Moore persuaded 'Unsolved Mysteries' and Court TV to run specials on the case, but still no one came forward. For the past year she's been working with a cold case investigator in Virginia to sift through evidence for new leads.
She hasn't given up yet. 'Somewhere out there they've got family still looking for them,' she says, 'and hitting all the wrong places.'
But with their olive skin and ethnically ambiguous faces, the couple could have come from anywhere. 'We've made contact with agencies in Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil, even in the Mediterranean,' Moore says.
Sgt. Ray Mackassey, a forensics officer in charge of the evidence in the case, says that while the case came many years before his time, he has heard the couple may have been Canadian.
Meet Jacque
Months after the homicide, an employee of KOA campgrounds near Santee, S.C., called authorities, believing he had earlier made friends with the dead man, who went by the name 'Jock,' according to documents in the case file.
Jock, or more likely, Jacque, stayed a few days at the campgrounds with his young female companion, then left for Florida. He and his girlfriend stopped at the campgrounds again on their way back.
The two men became friends. While shooting pool, Jacque told the KOA worker he was the son of a prominent doctor in Canada who had disowned him for giving up on his own career in medicine. He was taking a vacation of sorts, traveling the country aimlessly.
Before leaving, he tried to pawn an expensive ring to the employee, who later told authorities that the ring had looked a lot like the one found on the mystery man.
Inside his pocket was a book of Grants Truck Stop matches, which could only be found in Idaho, New Mexico and Nebraska. Authorities think Jacque passed through these places on his travels.
Parnell and his deputies seem to have made some effort to follow the Canadian trail. They wrote to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, which in turn published fingerprints and sketches in its trade magazine. Nothing ever turned up.
Priceless items
The dead man's ring, made of 14k gold, had the letters 'JPF' engraved on the inside.
Wolfgang Stihl, the Virginia cold case investigator who's been working with the county coroner, speculates family members gave him the ring, along with the Bulova Accutron watch he was also wearing.
Stihl has determined by markings on the watch that Bulova made the piece in 1968. But the company trashed its records when downsizing shortly thereafter, so no one knows where the watches were distributed.
But Stihl is sure about one thing. 'That watch was bought the year it was made.'
It could have been a high school graduation present, based on the victim's estimated age, 26 or 27. 'It was a popular item back in those days,' Stihl said.
The dead man was also wearing a Coors Light of America T-shirt, the same one sold at a car race held in Florida. More evidence to support the KOA lead.
The girl was also wearing expensive rings that look Mexican in style.
Stihl says the rings were probably handmade, and he hopes to use symbols on the inside of the bands to identify the artist and perhaps identify places where the girl bought the jewelry.
Latest leads
There are a few more unexplored avenues.
One involves a plaster cast or photographs of the tire tracks found at the murder scene, which Stihl says he can use to identify the getaway car.
'Every car has a different wheel-base area,' he says. That and tire tread marks could help him determine the year and make of the vehicle.
Stihl says there are many things about the case that bother him. He doesn't understand why the killer would have stolen cars, wallets or purses, but left watches and jewelry. The girl wasn't raped ' her autopsy didn't turn up a trace of sexual assault.
According to an examination of entry wounds, the murderer shot both victims in the back of the head to finish them off. 'These were executions,' he says, adding the killer may have been a traveling companion. That would explain why the jewelry wasn't stolen. The killer cared only about erasing their identities.
There's one last thing Stihl finds startling. 'They were completely clean. No dirt under their fingernails, none in their hair.'
They weren't smokers and they weren't drinkers. The man in particular was tall and athletic looking, possibly an aficionado of contact sports, judging by the suggestive scars on the back of his shoulder. Overall, the couple likely came from the upper crust of society.
Forever unsolved?
Stihl says he's confident he can identify the couple, though their killer may never be revealed. 'I wish I'd been there,' he says, adding that it would have been easier to work the case before most of the evidence dried up.
The ugly truth is most local law enforcement agencies have never possessed the resources or manpower to crack bizarre cases, though the small town of Sumter has seen its fair share of those, being home to serial killer Donald 'Pee Wee' Gaskins Jr. There are more than 20 unsolved cases in Sumter County.
These two killings are among the oldest.
Sumter Sheriff Tommy Mims wants to see this particular case solved as much as anyone, but he knows the odds of identifying the victims are evaporating.
'This case has been hashed up one way and down the other,' he says.
The mystery couple's parents, aunts and uncles may lie in their own graves by now.
But others refuse to let go. 'I've worked on this for almost 20 years,' Moore says. She's vowed not to give up until her career is over. But if she's re-elected this year, it will be her last term as coroner.
That's unimportant, she says.
'Whoever takes my place will keep working on it.'
'Mr. Henry,' replied one of the officers, according to the files. 'Right now I don't believe I would take your word for anything.'
In an effort to corroborate his alibi, cops timed the drive from the hospital to the crime scene and concluded there was no way Henry could have raced back in time to see his wife. Even with knowledge of his mental health and lying twice about the gun, they set him free.
Now dead, Henry will never have the chance to erase the suspicion or to confess.
Passing through
Evidence says the young couple weren't from South Carolina.
'If they were from around here we would have found them by now,' says Sumter County Coroner Verna Moore. In 1976, she was deputy coroner and also worked for the local paper, The Sumter Daily Item.
Moore persuaded 'Unsolved Mysteries' and Court TV to run specials on the case, but still no one came forward. For the past year she's been working with a cold case investigator in Virginia to sift through evidence for new leads.
She hasn't given up yet. 'Somewhere out there they've got family still looking for them,' she says, 'and hitting all the wrong places.'
But with their olive skin and ethnically ambiguous faces, the couple could have come from anywhere. 'We've made contact with agencies in Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil, even in the Mediterranean,' Moore says.
Sgt. Ray Mackassey, a forensics officer in charge of the evidence in the case, says that while the case came many years before his time, he has heard the couple may have been Canadian.
Meet Jacque
Months after the homicide, an employee of KOA campgrounds near Santee, S.C., called authorities, believing he had earlier made friends with the dead man, who went by the name 'Jock,' according to documents in the case file.
Jock, or more likely, Jacque, stayed a few days at the campgrounds with his young female companion, then left for Florida. He and his girlfriend stopped at the campgrounds again on their way back.
The two men became friends. While shooting pool, Jacque told the KOA worker he was the son of a prominent doctor in Canada who had disowned him for giving up on his own career in medicine. He was taking a vacation of sorts, traveling the country aimlessly.
Before leaving, he tried to pawn an expensive ring to the employee, who later told authorities that the ring had looked a lot like the one found on the mystery man.
Inside his pocket was a book of Grants Truck Stop matches, which could only be found in Idaho, New Mexico and Nebraska. Authorities think Jacque passed through these places on his travels.
Parnell and his deputies seem to have made some effort to follow the Canadian trail. They wrote to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, which in turn published fingerprints and sketches in its trade magazine. Nothing ever turned up.
Priceless items
The dead man's ring, made of 14k gold, had the letters 'JPF' engraved on the inside.
Wolfgang Stihl, the Virginia cold case investigator who's been working with the county coroner, speculates family members gave him the ring, along with the Bulova Accutron watch he was also wearing.
Stihl has determined by markings on the watch that Bulova made the piece in 1968. But the company trashed its records when downsizing shortly thereafter, so no one knows where the watches were distributed.
But Stihl is sure about one thing. 'That watch was bought the year it was made.'
It could have been a high school graduation present, based on the victim's estimated age, 26 or 27. 'It was a popular item back in those days,' Stihl said.
The dead man was also wearing a Coors Light of America T-shirt, the same one sold at a car race held in Florida. More evidence to support the KOA lead.
The girl was also wearing expensive rings that look Mexican in style.
Stihl says the rings were probably handmade, and he hopes to use symbols on the inside of the bands to identify the artist and perhaps identify places where the girl bought the jewelry.
Latest leads
There are a few more unexplored avenues.
One involves a plaster cast or photographs of the tire tracks found at the murder scene, which Stihl says he can use to identify the getaway car.
'Every car has a different wheel-base area,' he says. That and tire tread marks could help him determine the year and make of the vehicle.
Stihl says there are many things about the case that bother him. He doesn't understand why the killer would have stolen cars, wallets or purses, but left watches and jewelry. The girl wasn't raped ' her autopsy didn't turn up a trace of sexual assault.
According to an examination of entry wounds, the murderer shot both victims in the back of the head to finish them off. 'These were executions,' he says, adding the killer may have been a traveling companion. That would explain why the jewelry wasn't stolen. The killer cared only about erasing their identities.
There's one last thing Stihl finds startling. 'They were completely clean. No dirt under their fingernails, none in their hair.'
They weren't smokers and they weren't drinkers. The man in particular was tall and athletic looking, possibly an aficionado of contact sports, judging by the suggestive scars on the back of his shoulder. Overall, the couple likely came from the upper crust of society.
Forever unsolved?
Stihl says he's confident he can identify the couple, though their killer may never be revealed. 'I wish I'd been there,' he says, adding that it would have been easier to work the case before most of the evidence dried up.
The ugly truth is most local law enforcement agencies have never possessed the resources or manpower to crack bizarre cases, though the small town of Sumter has seen its fair share of those, being home to serial killer Donald 'Pee Wee' Gaskins Jr. There are more than 20 unsolved cases in Sumter County.
These two killings are among the oldest.
Sumter Sheriff Tommy Mims wants to see this particular case solved as much as anyone, but he knows the odds of identifying the victims are evaporating.
'This case has been hashed up one way and down the other,' he says.
The mystery couple's parents, aunts and uncles may lie in their own graves by now.
But others refuse to let go. 'I've worked on this for almost 20 years,' Moore says. She's vowed not to give up until her career is over. But if she's re-elected this year, it will be her last term as coroner.
That's unimportant, she says.
'Whoever takes my place will keep working on it.'
SeriouslySearching
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Very interesting case.
My take on it is that he is Canadian and his name could have been John. (Thomas John “Jock” Murray, MD (hereafter, TJM): I grew up in the town of Pictou, Nova Scotia, Canada, a small (population 4000), very Scottish community, which explains why I was never called by my official names of Thomas or John. I was always called the Scottish “Jock,” which is a nickname for John, just like Jack is the English nickname for John. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1214566)
I think she could be from just about anywhere, but not sure where. It would make sense she came with him from Canada tho. Young couple running off to discover the world together scenario. However, it doesn't mean she wasn't just trekking thru Canada when he met her. The Summer Olympics were held in Montreal, Quebec, Canada on July 17th.
The watch probably was a graduation present. It was the going thing to give for exactly that occasion in the 70s. (All the kids in our family got nice watches for graduation then.) The Linde Star rings for males were very popular during this time, too. I believe those are his initials.
Her jewelry could have been purchased in a number of places, including Oklahoma. (My grandmother had several onyx rings with this same shape and silver done similarly.) I agree they were Native American rings. The fact they still were wearing the jewelry doesn't automatically exclude this from being a robbery. Perhaps the perp wanted the car and cash only. They did not want to mess with the jewelry/pawn shops/sale of such.
Not wearing underwear was no big deal back in the 70s. Going commando was really pretty common. As far as her not shaving, there were a few of those around, too. (I wasn't one of either of those groups!) If they were staying at campgrounds...the matches were probably for campfires. (Btw, Coors was the most popular beer in Oklahoma in the 70s...along with the logo Tshirts...not to mention, miniskirts and halter tops!)
My theory is they were driving around the country and staying in their car. It sounds like they were killed at the scene which would make me curious as to where they had been hanging out prior to the shooting. Was there a concert, a race, or other event going on nearby that evening? They might have befriended and given a ride to one or more from there. They could have been killed for the vehicle. I would think it was a nice vehicle.
I believe his father was a Doctor, as he told the KOA guy. I also buy he had been "disowned" and this is the reason no one was "missing" him. It sounds like he left after a huge fight with the father and they didn't expect him to return.
Here is another story of a murder about the same time frame, age of victim, two shots, left by the side of the highway in CA. Probably no connection, but we can check it out:
Dennis Scott Cole
Murdered: October 1976-April 1977 Motorists traveling Highway 66 outside Ashland in April 1977 spotted skeletal remains near the Greensprings Summit. The body was later determined to be that of Cole, who was 22 when he left his parents’ home in Santa Clara, Calif., in October 1976. Police presume he was en route back to his home off Highway 66. An autopsy determined he’d been shot twice. No suspects were ever identified. http://archive.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/0321/local/stories/02local.htm
My take on it is that he is Canadian and his name could have been John. (Thomas John “Jock” Murray, MD (hereafter, TJM): I grew up in the town of Pictou, Nova Scotia, Canada, a small (population 4000), very Scottish community, which explains why I was never called by my official names of Thomas or John. I was always called the Scottish “Jock,” which is a nickname for John, just like Jack is the English nickname for John. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1214566)
I think she could be from just about anywhere, but not sure where. It would make sense she came with him from Canada tho. Young couple running off to discover the world together scenario. However, it doesn't mean she wasn't just trekking thru Canada when he met her. The Summer Olympics were held in Montreal, Quebec, Canada on July 17th.
The watch probably was a graduation present. It was the going thing to give for exactly that occasion in the 70s. (All the kids in our family got nice watches for graduation then.) The Linde Star rings for males were very popular during this time, too. I believe those are his initials.
Her jewelry could have been purchased in a number of places, including Oklahoma. (My grandmother had several onyx rings with this same shape and silver done similarly.) I agree they were Native American rings. The fact they still were wearing the jewelry doesn't automatically exclude this from being a robbery. Perhaps the perp wanted the car and cash only. They did not want to mess with the jewelry/pawn shops/sale of such.
Not wearing underwear was no big deal back in the 70s. Going commando was really pretty common. As far as her not shaving, there were a few of those around, too. (I wasn't one of either of those groups!) If they were staying at campgrounds...the matches were probably for campfires. (Btw, Coors was the most popular beer in Oklahoma in the 70s...along with the logo Tshirts...not to mention, miniskirts and halter tops!)
My theory is they were driving around the country and staying in their car. It sounds like they were killed at the scene which would make me curious as to where they had been hanging out prior to the shooting. Was there a concert, a race, or other event going on nearby that evening? They might have befriended and given a ride to one or more from there. They could have been killed for the vehicle. I would think it was a nice vehicle.
I believe his father was a Doctor, as he told the KOA guy. I also buy he had been "disowned" and this is the reason no one was "missing" him. It sounds like he left after a huge fight with the father and they didn't expect him to return.
Here is another story of a murder about the same time frame, age of victim, two shots, left by the side of the highway in CA. Probably no connection, but we can check it out:
Dennis Scott Cole
Murdered: October 1976-April 1977 Motorists traveling Highway 66 outside Ashland in April 1977 spotted skeletal remains near the Greensprings Summit. The body was later determined to be that of Cole, who was 22 when he left his parents’ home in Santa Clara, Calif., in October 1976. Police presume he was en route back to his home off Highway 66. An autopsy determined he’d been shot twice. No suspects were ever identified. http://archive.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/0321/local/stories/02local.htm
kittykat1
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If I am not mistaken, Jean Paul and Jean Pierre are common French names. This story is fascinating and I think it will be solved.
froggierintexas
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This was the closet doctor name that the Canadian Medical Association could find. Do what you will with the info. I am not about to call this doctor and say Hi you don't know me but, blah blah blah. I will leave that up to someone more capable.
Dr. Phillip Jacques Fourie
269 Bradbrooke Drive
Yorkton SK S3N 3L3
Phone (306) 783-4999
Dr. Phillip Jacques Fourie
269 Bradbrooke Drive
Yorkton SK S3N 3L3
Phone (306) 783-4999
MaryLiz
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Good work froggier, reverse the first and middle name and you have the initials on John Doe's ring - JPF! I certainly am not capable of making the phone call either! But it's another starting point to search from. Thanks!
froggierintexas
Don't squat with your spurs on!
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I meant closest not closet
I hope he's not a closet doctor.
yw
I hope he's not a closet doctor.
yw
Angie4b1g
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That made me actually laugh out loud.
superunknown
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Great minds think alike. I've spent the last couple days perusing the site for the Royal College of Physicians in Canada- a family member from Quebec suggested this when I mentioned this case to her.
Below are matches from all the provinces of physicians with a surname beginning with "F" who were admitted to the Royal College at or around the timeframe/age-range that a parent of "Jacques" might have been. (I used 1965 and earlier as a "range")
I don't know how many of these people are still even alive, but there are a few in Quebec that could be possibilities.
http://royalcollege.ca/index_e.php
Feore, Thomas Dermot Ryan
FRCPC (Nov. 27, 1964)
Central Newfoundland Regional
Health Centre
50 Union St
Grand Falls-Windsor, NL A2A 2E1 Diagnostic Radiology (Nov. 15, 1960)
Farber, Robert
FRCPC (Dec. 11, 1953)
Suite 206
2401 Yonge St
Toronto, ON M4P 3H1 Pediatrics (Dec. 11, 1953)
Farley, Robert Orme
FRCSC (Dec. 28, 1959)
St Thomas, ON General Surgery (Dec. 28, 1959)
Feinman, Saya Victor
FRCPC (Nov. 29, 1962)
Toronto, ON Internal Medicine (Nov. 19, 1956)
Fekete, John Francis
FRCPC (Sep. 23, 1972)
Mississauga, ON General Pathology (Nov. 13, 1961)
Fisher, Murray M.
FRCPC (Nov. 30, 1965)
Rm 618
Upper Canada Lower Bowel
Clinic
170 St George St
Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 Internal Medicine (Nov. 30, 1965)
Florence, Ralph
FRCPC (Jun. 9, 1972)
Suite 409
Balmoral Medical Arts
1366 Yonge St
Toronto, ON M4T 3A7 Dermatology (Nov. 29, 1960)
Flowers, Raymond William
FRCPC (Sep. 23, 1972)
Clinton, ON Internal Medicine (Nov. 10, 1964)
Forstner, Gordon G.
FRCPC (Nov. 30, 1965)
Rm 402
Clarke Site
Centre for Addiction &
Mental Health
250 College St
Toronto, ON M5T 1R8 Internal Medicine (Nov. 30, 1965)
Fox, Gordon Stanley
FRCPC (Dec. 1, 1965)
Rm 1514
Mount Sinai Hospital
600 University Ave
Toronto, ON M5G 1X5 Anesthesia (Dec. 1, 1965)
Fretz, Norman Anthony
FRCPC (Sep. 23, 1972)
Guelph, ON Psychiatry (Nov. 9, 1964)
Forsey, Robert Roy P. FRCPC
(Nov. 27, 1948)
Montréal, QC Dermatology (Dec. 1, 1947)
Fouron, Jean Claude
FRCPC (Nov. 25, 1963)
dép de pédiatrie
Hôpital Ste-Justine
3175 ch Côte-Sainte-Catherine
Montréal, QC H3T 1C5 Pediatrics (Nov. 25, 1963)
Fugère, Pierre
FRCSC (Nov. 29, 1963)
suite 100
235 boul René-Lévesque e
Montréal, QC H2X 1N8 Obstetrics and Gynecology (Nov. 29, 1963)
Fraser, Murray Macdonell
FRCSC (Dec. 11, 1953)
Regina, SK General Surgery (Dec. 11, 1953)
Pediatric General Surgery (Dec. 1, 1978)
superunknown
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I found this webpage:
http://www.im-a-fugere.com/id27.htm
Perhaps she could be contacted to see if she has a missing person?
http://www.im-a-fugere.com/id27.htm
Perhaps she could be contacted to see if she has a missing person?
superunknown
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I am wondering if a physician who was admitted to the Royal College in the 60's would be too YOUNG to be "Jacques" father?
If indeed his father was a "prominent doctor" I would imagine he'd be a member of that organization?
There is one doctor in Quebec that was admitted in the late 40's. That almost seems like a better match, age-wise... thoughts, everyone?
If indeed his father was a "prominent doctor" I would imagine he'd be a member of that organization?
There is one doctor in Quebec that was admitted in the late 40's. That almost seems like a better match, age-wise... thoughts, everyone?
superunknown
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This guy above is definitely what I'd call "prominent" and he's the right age. He's all over the internet. Here's an older photo of him:
http://www.dermatology.ca/cda_organisation/Archives/presidents/past_presidents_1954_67.html
Gina_M
New Member
Someone mentioned earlier that maybe the father is a dentist and not a medical doctor. This may be off the wall, but...maybe the father is the one who did his dental work! That would explain his not coming forward, if he had truly disowned his son.
Gina_M
New Member
The High-Point Enterprise
High Point, NC
August 13, 1976
Two Bodies Still Not Identified
Sumter, SC (AP) - They were both young - late teens to early 20s. Both were slender. He was about six feet tall and weighed between 150 and 160 pounds and she was about 5'5" and weighed about 100 pounds.
He had shoulder length brown hair and brown eyes and she had medium length brown hair and bluish-gray eyes.
He was wearing faded blue jeans, a red T-shirt with "Coors" on the front and "Camel GT Challenge Sebring '75" on the back, and a pair of brown strap sandals. She wore cut-off blue jeans, a pink halter top, a white blouse, and a pair of wedge sandals with hot pink and purple straps.
He had an appendectomy scar, but she had no scars on her body.
He wore a Bulova Accutron watch with a brown Twist-OFlex band and a 14-carat gold ring with a gray linde star stone, a worn florentine finish and the initials J P F engraved on the inside.
She was wearing three rings, all sterling silver, believed to be either Mexican or Indian costume jewelry. One ring was jade with a black setting, one was a feather ring with a jade insert, and the third had a red, white and blue setting.
Their bodies were found Monday morning by a man on his way to work.
High Point, NC
August 13, 1976
Two Bodies Still Not Identified
Sumter, SC (AP) - They were both young - late teens to early 20s. Both were slender. He was about six feet tall and weighed between 150 and 160 pounds and she was about 5'5" and weighed about 100 pounds.
He had shoulder length brown hair and brown eyes and she had medium length brown hair and bluish-gray eyes.
He was wearing faded blue jeans, a red T-shirt with "Coors" on the front and "Camel GT Challenge Sebring '75" on the back, and a pair of brown strap sandals. She wore cut-off blue jeans, a pink halter top, a white blouse, and a pair of wedge sandals with hot pink and purple straps.
He had an appendectomy scar, but she had no scars on her body.
He wore a Bulova Accutron watch with a brown Twist-OFlex band and a 14-carat gold ring with a gray linde star stone, a worn florentine finish and the initials J P F engraved on the inside.
She was wearing three rings, all sterling silver, believed to be either Mexican or Indian costume jewelry. One ring was jade with a black setting, one was a feather ring with a jade insert, and the third had a red, white and blue setting.
Their bodies were found Monday morning by a man on his way to work.
Gina_M
New Member
(cont'd...)
That much is known.
What is unknown is who the two young people were and how they ended up dead of multiple gunshot wounds beside a dirt road in the eastern end of Sumter County.
Investigators know how they died - they were both shot several times.
Where they died is also known - on a dirt road known as Locklair Road, between I-95 and S.C. 341, about 25 miles east of Sumter.
But until identification of the two bodies is made, the search for their killers has been stalled.
That much is known.
What is unknown is who the two young people were and how they ended up dead of multiple gunshot wounds beside a dirt road in the eastern end of Sumter County.
Investigators know how they died - they were both shot several times.
Where they died is also known - on a dirt road known as Locklair Road, between I-95 and S.C. 341, about 25 miles east of Sumter.
But until identification of the two bodies is made, the search for their killers has been stalled.
Gina_M
New Member
The High Point Enterprise
High Point, NC
August 23, 1976
Two bodies remain unidentified
Sumter, SC (AP) - "We need to have these bodies identified so we can get on with cracking this case," says Sumter County Sheriff I. Bird Parnell.
Parnell is still waiting for some word as to the identities of the couple found shot to death Aug. 9 near the Lynches River in Sumter County.
...
Parnell said two of his deputies drove to Brunswick, Ga., early last week after being told by a Varnville, S.C. man that he thought he dated the girl last year. The man went to Georgia with the deputies, but the girl's mother said she was not the same person.
"That put us right back where we started," said Sgt. Hugh A. Mathis, one of the officers.
Autopsy reports show both persons died from gunshot wounds and that the shots were fired from only a few feet away.
The girl was described as very pretty. She had brown hair, with a slightly reddish tint...
High Point, NC
August 23, 1976
Two bodies remain unidentified
Sumter, SC (AP) - "We need to have these bodies identified so we can get on with cracking this case," says Sumter County Sheriff I. Bird Parnell.
Parnell is still waiting for some word as to the identities of the couple found shot to death Aug. 9 near the Lynches River in Sumter County.
...
Parnell said two of his deputies drove to Brunswick, Ga., early last week after being told by a Varnville, S.C. man that he thought he dated the girl last year. The man went to Georgia with the deputies, but the girl's mother said she was not the same person.
"That put us right back where we started," said Sgt. Hugh A. Mathis, one of the officers.
Autopsy reports show both persons died from gunshot wounds and that the shots were fired from only a few feet away.
The girl was described as very pretty. She had brown hair, with a slightly reddish tint...
MaryLiz
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Dr. Forsey would be about the right age. In the Crime Library article it said John Doe was 18-22, possibly older, which would mean he was probably born sometime in the 1950s. I think there is a resemblance between John Doe and Dr. Forsey, especially the eyebrows. Below is the link to the Crime Library story on the last page where they show a photograph of each victim's face. John Doe looked like he had sort of thick eyebrows and so does Dr. Forsey. I can definitely see a resemblance.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/mystery_couple/6.html
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