Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

[Sweetluv]

This case makes me think of the AR/MO couple from 1978....gunshot...poss hitchhikers...interstate trucking area...still UID... possible connection?? Serial killer?

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

By the way, I wouldnt think this article relates to the Doe's but because I found it while researching the Cherokee Nation in regards to this case it kinda blew my mind. Y'all should check it out.

http://www.indianz.com/m.asp?url=ht...cle_a72eb758-2e0b-11e4-a3fb-001a4bcf887a.html

Very interesting tidbit, thank you for sharing this compelling read T-Rex.

See, the main issue with the Native American angle is that the forensics (even back then) are able to determine with stunning accuracy what a decedent's racial heritage is. With the understanding that "race" is largely an artificial construct and that it's more to do with what human population you most resemble and identify as -- I'm "white" but recently discovered, I believe it was, just under 0.05% Japanese ancestry through genetic testing (parents both took 23andMe tests).

The way the forensics work is that, let's say we have an individual with an Asiatic lineage (i.e. Alaska Natives, First Nations peoples of North & South America). This decedent has a certain facial bone structure which the anthropologists would be able to look at and say, "This person is likely of a Native American admixture." Things such as eye socket width/length, nose width, etc. provide clues as to somebody's ancestry. The teeth of many Indigenous people are distinctly shaped, almost in a shovel-type shape. You'll even see some UIDs on here listed as "race unknown" or "mixed race/biracial" - they can determine all of that in the morgue, and if somebody has racially ambiguous features, they don't feel comfortable just labeling the person as [insert race here]. In the case of the Bear Brook murders, the mother and her children "looked white" but were, in fact, of a slight Native American admixture. This wouldn't have been detected by those who saw them on the street, but the anthropologists could tell. The characteristics were there.

So, at the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, the fact that the decedents have been labeled "white" is an indication that though genetic testing was not possible back then, the forensics were completed with the usual level of attention to detail, and the physical traits observed to be "caucasian." That loaded term, of course, often used to describe a dizzying variety of hair colors and textures, eye colors, and even complexions. Many people whom we might not readily regard as whites, like Arabs, are in fact considered by the U.S. Census to fall under the umbrella of "white." The Census Bureau defines "White people" as those"having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa."Pretty broad definition, huh?I've said this earlier, but it is my position that they are of Mediterranean descent. She might be a Lebanese Canadian or at least of partial Lebanese descent. He might be too, judging by those thick, bushy eyebrows and olive undertones. The fact that the people over at Doe Network (a very reputable website that only publishes LE-verified info) seem to entertain the thought that she was an exchange student from the Middle East just intrigues me, along with the sizable Lebanese community in Quebec, many of whom have intermarried with the French-Canadians.

 

[Bit of hope]

Very interesting tidbit, thank you for sharing this compelling read T-Rex.

See, the main issue with the Native American angle is that the forensics (even back then) are able to determine with stunning accuracy what a decedent's racial heritage is. With the understanding that "race" is largely an artificial construct and that it's more to do with what human population you most resemble and identify as -- I'm "white" but recently discovered, I believe it was, just under 0.05% Japanese ancestry through genetic testing (parents both took 23andMe tests).

The way the forensics work is that, let's say we have an individual with an Asiatic lineage (i.e. Alaska Natives, First Nations peoples of North & South America). This decedent has a certain facial bone structure which the anthropologists would be able to look at and say, "This person is likely of a Native American admixture." Things such as eye socket width/length, nose width, etc. provide clues as to somebody's ancestry. The teeth of many Indigenous people are distinctly shaped, almost in a shovel-type shape. You'll even see some UIDs on here listed as "race unknown" or "mixed race/biracial" - they can determine all of that in the morgue, and if somebody has racially ambiguous features, they don't feel comfortable just labeling the person as [insert race here]. In the case of the Bear Brook murders, the mother and her children "looked white" but were, in fact, of a slight Native American admixture. This wouldn't have been detected by those who saw them on the street, but the anthropologists could tell. The characteristics were there.

So, at the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, the fact that the decedents have been labeled "white" is an indication that though genetic testing was not possible back then, the forensics were completed with the usual level of attention to detail, and the physical traits observed to be "caucasian." That loaded term, of course, often used to describe a dizzying variety of hair colors and textures, eye colors, and even complexions. Many people whom we might not readily regard as whites, like Arabs, are in fact considered by the U.S. Census to fall under the umbrella of "white." The Census Bureau defines "White people" as those"having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa."Pretty broad definition, huh?I've said this earlier, but it is my position that they are of Mediterranean descent. She might be a Lebanese Canadian or at least of partial Lebanese descent. He might be too, judging by those thick, bushy eyebrows and olive undertones. The fact that the people over at Doe Network (a very reputable website that only publishes LE-verified info) seem to entertain the thought that she was an exchange student from the Middle East just intrigues me, along with the sizable Lebanese community in Quebec, many of whom have intermarried with the French-Canadians.

Hé little now-it-all (just kidding) I also think they are some kind of Mediterranean mixture. Lebanese would also be possible. Definitely not white-white like me.

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Haha Yeah, I think what throws a lot of people off about their looks is that, to an American, they just look somewhat 'ethnic,' but the thing with the Native Americans in this country (and Canada from what I have heard) is that unfortunately, due to centuries of oppression and marginalization, they are often of a very low socio-economic status. This couple was obviously from a place of privilege and affluence. Another UID on here who is ethnically ambiguous is Lyle Stevik - I've seriously heard every ancestry under the sun proposed for that guy.

I do think that some people targeted them because they seemed 'different' and maybe offended somebody in some way. They were shot multiple times to ensure that they were truly dead. Think about what makes someone do something like that... no signs of sexual trauma, very expensive ring left on his finger... It could have been motivated by xenophobia (somebody mentioned on here that Jacques had an accent) or having ruffled somebody's feathers who had a gun. That's the thing that scares me about living in this country... you never know who's packing heat and don't want to say the 'wrong thing' or get in a fight because soooo many people conceal and carry. Was in the vicinity of a fatal shooting before and know how easily people can get riled up. I did some research on Sumter County and nearly a quarter of the population lives under the poverty line. Guns, unemployment, possibly higher rates of mental illness and rates of substance abuse (which always spike in a poorer environment)... not a great combo.

 

[Bit of hope]

I'm so glad that in The Netherlands guns are not allowed. There would be so much shootings...because some people are (for any reason) frustrated. (And still there are a lot of drugs related executions and other murders). Simply the fact that Jock and Jane were obviously prosperous, "the happy few-thing" and on top of that, very beautiful...could have triggered somebody. Maybe its just something stupid like somebody made a pass at her, and she wasn't into that..... Lyle Stevik is good to mention. I while ago I decided to unsubscribe from that thread, just because I had the feeling that he will never be identified (for a lot of reasons). I decided to let him go. He wanted to go and not identified (off course that is very sad) In this case it's different, still puzzling me...but to be honest...also in this case I don't have much hope that they will ever be identified. Maybe, Maybe....someone who knows something...will tell about it....before he or she leaves this world. The chance that something like that will happen is getting smaller and smaller as time passes. Still thinking they are from Argentina (or an other country were people get killed or disappeared during the 70's) for political reasons. Would you look further/consider another scenario if you are claiming for many years that your family is killed by the/a regime.... Actually I don't think so..... Wouldn't that be a loss of face? (sorry, because of my poor English, its hard for me to make my point, hope you understand/or better not misunderstand)

 

[Brainy]

It’s been 40 yrs. I doubt if there is anyone alive now in their immediate family. And if they are, they are either old, or those who are still alive have faded memories. It’s sad and frustrating, and it is more frustrating of not being able to do anything to help to identify these souls.

What’s so frustrating is at some point law enforcement had a possession of the very same gun used in this murder and then the person who owned the gun was cleared? How can this be possible without appropriate follow-up and further investigation. I do believe that law enforcement has failed this couple. They have at best done a lousy job.

 

[TedMac]

It’s been 40 yrs. I doubt if there is anyone alive now in their immediate family. And if they are, they are either old, or those who are still alive have faded memories. It’s sad and frustrating, and it is more frustrating of not being able to do anything to help to identify these souls.

What’s so frustrating is at some point law enforcement had a possession of the very same gun used in this murder and then the person who owned the gun was cleared? How can this be possible without appropriate follow-up and further investigation. I do believe that law enforcement has failed this couple. They have at best done a lousy job.

Not only did LE not charge anyone, but they also lost the gun. Unbelievable!

 

[Brainy]

Not only did LE not charge anyone, but they also lost the gun. Unbelievable!

How is that possible? Do we even know who that person was? How an important piece of evidence in double homicide investigation just vanished? Very, very suspicious and infuriating! South Carolina LE should do some digging and find the person who had the gun.

 

[TedMac]

How is that possible? Do we even know who that person was? How an important piece of evidence in double homicide investigation just vanished? Very, very suspicious and infuriating! South Carolina LE should do some digging and find the person who had the gun.

They arrested a local for DUI and located the gun in his vehicle during the subsequent search. They tested the gun and found it to be the murder weapon. Going from memory here, but I believe he claimed a relative either gave it to him or sold it to him. Either way, they failed to identify who actually had possession of the gun at the time of the murders. The guy arrested for the DUI has since died.

 

[Brainy]

They arrested a local for DUI and located the gun in his vehicle during the subsequent search. They tested the gun and found it to be the murder weapon. Going from memory here, but I believe he claimed a relative either gave it to him or sold it to him. Either way, they failed to identify who actually had possession of the gun at the time of the murders. The guy arrested for the DUI has since died.

Yes, I knew the person has died, but can they go through old records? Do they have an ID number/ serial number to go through old records who owned the gun? I know it was long time ago which makes any exploration or review of records even more difficult. What was the reason that there was no follow-up, I wonder?

 

[Bit of hope]

Somehow I lost my file about Jock en Jane (or I simply put it in the wrong map?) but there is a lot of info about the gun investigation around (on the Internet and this thread) On way or another all the things about this are very strange....because of that I even sometimes thinks that LE had something to do with the murders.... Don't want to offend anybody...but my eyebrows raised many times in this case.

 

[Brainy]

Somehow I lost my file about Jock en Jane (or I simply put it in the wrong map?) but there is a lot of info about the gun investigation around (on the Internet and this thread) On way or another all the things about this are very strange....because of that I even sometimes thinks that LE had something to do with the murders.... Don't want to offend anybody...but my eyebrows raised many times in this case.

Yes, it certainly does sound like a cover up. There is corrupt LE everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if someone bribed their way out of this or simply had enough control and power to shut things down, and make murder evidence mysteriously vanish.


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[TedMac]

Yes, I knew the person has died, but can they go through old records? Do they have an ID number/ serial number to go through old records who owned the gun? I know it was long time ago which makes any exploration or review of records even more difficult. What was the reason that there was no follow-up, I wonder?

Not sure about why LE did not do much of a follow-up or if they did why they didn't have more positive results. I don't know if the gun was actually registered to anyone. Keep in mind that this occurred in 1976 when gun laws were much more lax. As Bit of Hope wrote above, there are several things about this case that raised a lot of eyebrows.

If you check the internet, there are several theories concerning this case. Some feel the couple was actually the McBinns who were reported lost at sea not long before the bodies of Jane & Jock Doe were found and they (the McBinns) were part of a federal drug investigation and were killed when someone blew their cover. Thus, the Feds covered up the murders to cover their own rear ends. I don't know, but I think they were two drifters killed by local ****s and since their idenity is unknown, determining their names and finding their killer or killers has been difficult. I don't think the Feds or a professional killer would have killed two people and then turn the gun over to a local drunk. It is surprising at least to me that no family member has reported them missing or come forward to identify the bodies. Reportedly, Jock told the manager of a campground that he was from Cannda and his father was a doctor who he (Jock) had fallen out of favor with. He (Jock) had some very expensive dental work which leads me to believe that may have been accurate and I am surprised LE hasn't been able to match it with a dentist. Possibly, the doctor had washed his hands of him and maybe that is why he never reported him missing. Jane may have also came from Canada or perhaps she is someone he met along the way. I have a feeling we will never know the truth in this case.

 

[Brainy]

Not sure about why LE did not do much of a follow-up or if they did why they didn't have more positive results. I don't know if the gun was actually registered to anyone. Keep in mind that this occurred in 1976 when gun laws were much more lax. As Bit of Hope wrote above, there are several things about this case that raised a lot of eyebrows.

If you check the internet, there are several theories concerning this case. Some feel the couple was actually the McBinns who were reported lost at sea not long before the bodies of Jane & Jock Doe were found and they (the McBinns) were part of a federal drug investigation and were killed when someone blew their cover. Thus, the Feds covered up the murders to cover their own rear ends. I don't know, but I think they were two drifters killed by local ****s and since their idenity is unknown, determining their names and finding their killer or killers has been difficult. I don't think the Feds or a professional killer would have killed two people and then turn the gun over to a local drunk. It is surprising at least to me that no family member has reported them missing or come forward to identify the bodies. Reportedly, Jock told the manager of a campground that he was from Cannda and his father was a doctor who he (Jock) had fallen out of favor with. He (Jock) had some very expensive dental work which leads me to believe that may have been accurate and I am surprised LE hasn't been able to match it with a dentist. Possibly, the doctor had washed his hands of him and maybe that is why he never reported him missing. Jane may have also came from Canada or perhaps she is someone he met along the way. I have a feeling we will never know the truth in this case.

Thank you for your feedback. It does generate many thoughts and questions. Yes, they might have not had any registration documents about the gun but they could have learned more from the guy who had the gun if they followed through. It does sound like they were killed by locals, but the contradicting part of this theory... I have always sensed that they were killed for a personal reason. Like someone executed them for a personal motive. Shots to the head and chest. Yeah, it's safe to say someone really wanted to make sure they don't get out of this alive.

The fact that they didn't have any IDs is very suspicious. It does seem like the killer(s) went to some length to conceal their identity. Part of me doesn't think it was just robbery... They had their jewelry, clothing. It is baffling.

I don't think feds were involved at all for all the reasons you pointed out in your post. I guess they just pissed off the wrong people or happen to run into a crazy person.

Yes, I don't think this one will ever be solved. It was too long ago. They did have some very unique identifiable features and items with them. Nobody reported them missing. Perhaps they were just drifters/hitchhikers with no strong ties and no permanence in life who just passed through life.

 

[TedMac]

Thank you for your feedback. It does generate many thoughts and questions. Yes, they might have not had any registration documents about the gun but they could have learned more from the guy who had the gun if they followed through. It does sound like they were killed by locals, but the contradicting part of this theory... I have always sensed that they were killed for a personal reasonal. Like someone executed them for a personal motive. Shots to the head and chest. Yeah, it's safe to say someone really wanted to make sure they don't get out of this alive.

The fact that they didn't have any IDs is very suspicious. It does seem like the killer(s) went to some length to conceal their identity. Part of me doesn't think it was just robbery... They had their jewelry, clothing. It is baffling.

I don't think feds were involved at all for all the reasons you pointed out in your post. I guess they just pissed off the wrong people or happen to run into a crazy person.

Yes, I don't think this one will ever be solved. It was too long ago. They did have some very unique identifiable features and items with them. Nobody reported them missing. Perhaps they were just drifters/hitchhikers with no strong ties and no permanence in life who just passed through life.

I think it was a robbery by a local stooge or stooges. I am aware that Jock had an expensive ring and/or watch. But, maybe the killer didn't know the value of the items and perhaps was simply after cash. The killer may have seen them purchasing something and saw they had money and decided to rob them. It also could have been a drug deal gone awry and the killer ripped them off.

It has been several years since I read the reports, but I think the guy charged with DUI was questioned about the gun and he told them he got it from a relative. When questioned about it, the relative denied it and said he had never seen the gun before. I believe more could have been done to solve this case or at a minimum identify the victims. But simply put, it wasn't done.

 

[Brainy]

Even if they were reported missing, the case might have not got into the hands of right people. Meaning that, let's say their family is from Canada and they are concerned so they're filing a report. Well, they're were adults and can go anywhere they want, and unless foul play or something unusual is suspected, LE is not going to take any steps to look for them. With time, the report was closed, no follow up was ever conducted, and the paper report in probably in an old file cabinet.


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[Brainy]

I think it was a robbery by a local stooge or stooges. I am aware that Jock had an expensive ring and/or watch. But, maybe the killer didn't know the value of the items and perhaps was simply after cash. The killer may have seen them purchasing something and saw they had money and decided to rob them. It also could have been a drug deal gone awry and the killer ripped them off.

It has been several years since I read the reports, but I think the guy charged with DUI was questioned about the gun and he told them he got it from a relative. When questioned about it, the relative denied it and said he had never seen the gun before. I believe more could have been done to solve this case or at a minimum identify the victims. But simply put, it wasn't done.

Yes, exactly. LE did a very lousy job. They could have checked their whereabouts at the time of the murders or something similar.

It was probably robbery. But if it was, why conceal their identitiy?


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[Bit of hope]

Even if they were reported missing, the case might have not got into the hands of right people. Meaning that, let's say their family is from Canada and they are concerned so they're filing a report. Well, they're were adults and can go anywhere they want, and unless foul play or something unusual is suspected, LE is not going to take any steps to look for them. With time, the report was closed, no follow up was ever conducted, and the paper report in probably in an old file cabinet.


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Let's not talk about the totally disconnected LE instances in Canada...especially in those days.....they are still so scattered and not working together...are not transparent (in some cases they still don't want so share case files with direct family) pffffff

 

[carbuff]

I suspect that part of the motivation for LE not following up on this case might have been that they didn't want friends/neighbors/other good ol' boys to get in trouble for getting rid of a couple of "dirty city hippies." Putting words into their mouths...but in 1976, hostility between country law enforcement and traveling young people.

 

[Brainy]

I suspect that part of the motivation for LE not following up on this case might have been that they didn't want friends/neighbors/other good ol' boys to get in trouble for getting rid of a couple of "dirty city hippies." Putting words into their mouths...but in 1976, hostility between country law enforcement and traveling young people.

Also a possibility. You know there is lots of poverty in South Carolina. If you have been there, a lot of it looks like a ghost town lost in time. If you look up Sumter County, SC, poverty rates are staggering, so robbery is a very likely possibility. I can also picture this place in 1976 where people hated anybody who even looked different.