Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

[Triss]

Thank you CCJD, I totally missed this. I'm glad DDP didn't give up on them! I know very little about DNA extraction, but I can imagine it might be hard considering their remains are 44 years old. Fingers crossed they can get sufficient DNA from their bodies.

 

[JovanSrna]

They are now undergoing sequencing.

 

[misscrystalnc]

Hey everyone! This is my very first comment as I'm just signing up. I actually found this site from just a lil while ago this morning, I was listening to Trace Evidence Podcast and the subject was the Sumpter Does. It's like the 3rd podcast I've listened to about it in the past year. It actually led me to the Doe Network website where every man and woman that went missing in 1976 all over the US, I compared them to these 2 does. While I did find a few men that looked like they could have been Jock Doe, of course I didn't come up with anything and I didn't check Canada yet but I'm very fascinated by this case. I didn't find any women around the age Jane would have been with moles on her face. I hope they are able to identify these 2 and possible get justice for them once and for all. I mean who could have relatives like this who's gone missing and no one has reported them missing. I can't help but wonder why they were the only 2 murdered and found this way. The way they were killed it seemed like a serial killer may have done this. Does anyone know of any other murders that had the same MO but just in different areas? Likely beating a dead horse here. Anyways, again, hello and I hope to be able to learn and participate with what you all do here. I think it's awesome. Be safe.

Crystal M of NC

 

[Sweetluv]

According to the DNA project website, they are still listed under (pending)
The list date was July 2019...

 

[carbuff]

According to the DNA project website, they are still listed under (pending)
The list date was July 2019...

I was reading about another case where the lab took two years and repeated tries, including developing new techniques, before they were able to get a sample. I guess that means this case is right on schedule

Damn I hate to wait.

 

[dotr]

Hey everyone! This is my very first comment as I'm just signing up. I actually found this site from just a lil while ago this morning, I was listening to Trace Evidence Podcast and the subject was the Sumpter Does. It's like the 3rd podcast I've listened to about it in the past year. It actually led me to the Doe Network website where every man and woman that went missing in 1976 all over the US, I compared them to these 2 does. While I did find a few men that looked like they could have been Jock Doe, of course I didn't come up with anything and I didn't check Canada yet but I'm very fascinated by this case. I didn't find any women around the age Jane would have been with moles on her face. I hope they are able to identify these 2 and possible get justice for them once and for all. I mean who could have relatives like this who's gone missing and no one has reported them missing. I can't help but wonder why they were the only 2 murdered and found this way. The way they were killed it seemed like a serial killer may have done this. Does anyone know of any other murders that had the same MO but just in different areas? Likely beating a dead horse here. Anyways, again, hello and I hope to be able to learn and participate with what you all do here. I think it's awesome. Be safe.

Crystal M of NC

Welcome to Ws misscrystalnc!

 

[branmuffin]

I think Stephen Locke Packard and Linda Lee Lovell look a lot like the mystery couple -

Stephen Locke Packard – The Charley Project
Linda Lee Lovell – The Charley Project

The only big difference in description is that Stephen is described as blonde, although his photos look more like he has dark hair imo.

Unfortunately, I don't see any resemblance between our male Doe and Stephen. Stephen is too young, only 18, he's blonde (he's described as a strawberry blonde on Namus, he's had a broken hand which would show up on x-ray, his eyebrows are quite indistinct, I guess because he's a blonde, whereas the male Doe had very heavy dark brows. And even though there is only about a 2+ inch height disparity between the two, I think we can say that the height of the deceased would be fairly accurate since they were found within hours of death.

As for his companion Linda, she shares several general descriptors of the Jane Doe in terms of height, weight, hair colour, and eye colour but on Namus she is listed as having several 1.5 inch circular scars on her front near her waist and on her back and our JD was identified as having no scars, although it was referring to surgical scars.

 

[branmuffin]

I'm sorry if I'm repeating or asking a question that have already been answered. There are so many threads about this!

Wikipedia says more DNA testing is underway. I'm so glad to hear that! I hope they will do a genealogy search if needed. Does anyone have further info on this?

At first glance it is surprising that neither of them have been identified. However, I've followed true crime in its various forms for over 30 years and I don't recall the case. (It's possible I've run across it.) There's been very little publicity about them. So people who have info could've easily missed this story.

On the other hand, family members would've been looking at Does.

I just ran across this case today and it's already driving me crazy.

I live in Canada and this case has attracted a lot of attention. Back in the 1990s a big article was printed in one of our major newspapers (even with the autopsy and crime scene photos). A lot of Canadians (myself included) were sure they were from Quebec. My stance has changed over the years but it's still one of the most mysterious cases I've ever come across.

 

[branmuffin]

I only see the Quebecois Dr. Jacques Ferron mentioned here once, as a possible father to Jock, so I don't know if this has been discussed before (sorry if it has). However, Ferron reportedly had nine children by two wives (between 1945ish to 1955ish) and I can't find a single one of his children mentioned by name anywhere online. Jock allegedly stated that his father disowned him, and Ferron was a highly respected physician and medical researcher in Quebec at the time. It wouldn't surprise me if Ferron, for whatever reason, disowned one of his children. Additionally, the names Jacques, Pierre, Johan, Jean and Jean Paul seem to be very common in the Ferron family tree. Nothing unusual, sure, most of those are very common in francophone families, but I still think it's worth mentioning.

Also, was the ring ever checked for a maker's mark? Since it isn't mentioned anywhere I lean towards thinking that it didn't have any markings besides the initials. If that's the case, it has to be extremely unusual, doesn't it? Unless Jock got the ring custom made by a small and independent maker, there wouldn't be any reason for there not to be a maker's mark? Sure, it could've been filed off at some point, but why? The ring also could've been older than Jock himself, but the florentine finish wasn't really a thing before the late sixties. If there was a maker's mark, the investigators should have been able to trace it back to the shop where it was bought, or at least to whom the ring was distributed for sale. After all, it's not like it was a very common ring, even by 70's standards!

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I can't find anything about it.

It's possible the ring was bought in Europe. Florentine finishing has been around for centuries but I guess it goes in and out of vogue like most things. The ring may have belonged to an older relative. I don't know why so many sites identify the ring as a far eastern design; it's pretty basic to me for a man's ring. Unless they mean that most star sapphires come from Asia.

 

[branmuffin]

Agreed. Why so long?

We're an impatient bunch, aren't we?

 

[carbuff]

It's possible the ring was bought in Europe. Florentine finishing has been around for centuries but I guess it goes in and out of vogue like most things. The ring may have belonged to an older relative. I don't know why so many sites identify the ring as a far eastern design; it's pretty basic to me for a man's ring. Unless they mean that most star sapphires come from Asia.

In the 70s they were advertised as "India star sapphires" to make them sound more romantic or dramatic or something.

 

[branmuffin]

In the 70s they were advertised as "India star sapphires" to make them sound more romantic or dramatic or something.

Indian and Asian stuff was very 'in' in the late 60s and early 70s so I can see the attraction to the India star sapphire. In the 70s the clothing style was very Boho too, with those big shearling fur coats with embroidery on them that stunk to high heavens if they got wet.

 

[carbuff]

Indian and Asian stuff was very 'in' in the late 60s and early 70s so I can see the attraction to the India star sapphire. In the 70s the clothing style was very Boho too, with those big shearling fur coats with embroidery on them that stunk to high heavens if they got wet.

Nehru jackets, too.

 

[branmuffin]

Nehru jackets, too.

Lol. Sammy Davis Jr. wore Nehru jackets. He looked pretty cool in them.

 

[Laughing]

IIRC in 1976 one could order a class ring from Josten's with a Linde Star.

I didn't but there are Linde Star rings available from vintage jewelry sites:

Linde Star Sapphire Gemstones

and on eBay.

IF this was a natural star sapphire, that ring was much more expensive.

Anyone know if Jacques/Jock wore a Linde Star or a natural star sapphire?

JMHO YMMV LRR

 

[branmuffin]

IIRC in 1976 one could order a class ring from Josten's with a Linde Star.

I didn't but there are Linde Star rings available from vintage jewelry sites:

Linde Star Sapphire Gemstones

and on eBay.

IF this was a natural star sapphire, that ring was much more expensive.

Anyone know if Jacques/Jock wore a Linde Star or a natural star sapphire?

JMHO YMMV LRR

I don't know if we've been advised of that. I've only every seen one image of the ring. zi cant recall if we've ever seen the inside of the band to view the inscription.

 

[Sweetluv]

This gray star sapphire ring worn by our john doe.....is listed as the color and gem given to one on their 65th wedding anniversary. Could this be a ring that was handed down?
Also, he could have bought it from a second hand store, giving the inside initials no value.
The star sapphire represents faith, hope, and destiny. Its said to ward off negativity and bring good luck to travelers.
Do we know which finger he wore the ring on? Just thinking, if it wasn't worn on the right hand ring finger...maybe it wasn't originally for or bought by him? Need some male insight please....on what hand and finger do you wear a ring..besides wedding band?

 

[Warwick1991]

Some of the descriptions of the ring that have published call the stone a Linde star, which was a high quality synthetic sapphire. They are marked in the back with the manufacturer’s data in tiny letters. This could be identified by an experienced jeweler with a good loupe. The florentine finish was very common on rings sold in the 1960’s and early 1970’s. Gold was much less expensive, too. One photograph of the ring that is on Wikipedia and from the local police shows a simple design that was very popular at the time. A couple of my male relatives had similar, but not identical, rings. They weren’t expensive. The initials “jpf” were inside the ring, and could be either the manufacturer or some personal touch.

 

[carbuff]

Some of the descriptions of the ring that have published call the stone a Linde star, which was a high quality synthetic sapphire. They are marked in the back with the manufacturer’s data in tiny letters. This could be identified by an experienced jeweler with a good loupe. The florentine finish was very common on rings sold in the 1960’s and early 1970’s. Gold was much less expensive, too. One photograph of the ring that is on Wikipedia and from the local police shows a simple design that was very popular at the time. A couple of my male relatives had similar, but not identical, rings. They weren’t expensive. The initials “jpf” were inside the ring, and could be either the manufacturer or some personal touch.

Exactly. Mr. Carbuff has a yellow (tiger eye) ring very similar to that, except with a smooth finish, that his sister got him as a high school graduation present. It's a nice ring but not expensive. I looked at it last night and it has a tiny maker's mark that might be jfg but I'd most definitely need a loupe and good light to make it out.

My recollection is that it was the kind of thing you might get your brother or steady boyfriend as a Christmas present or graduation present etc.

 

[Warwick1991]

The lack of uniqueness of the jewelry and other items found with the mystery couple compound the difficulties of identifying them. They were wearing items that anyone might have had - a Linde star ring and a Bulova watch for him, and Southwestern silver jewelry for her. Clothing was not unusual. His teeth would have been a valuable clue, but are lost. If they weren’t from the US, clothing labels could help if they were wearing clothing from another country, but apparently there was nothing unusual found. If they were from another country, they were wearing clothing obtained here. Their possessions were gone; those might have provided clues even without ID’s. Hopefully DNA extraction will work. I wonder if an isotope test was ever done on the woman’s teeth... Perhaps it is no longer possible.